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The seriously deluded state of many Americans

robin

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Lets take one example of grossly unjust American practice abroad.
Kissenger & the CIA brought about the overthrow of Allende by supporting a military coup, even though Allende was the democratically elected president of Chile.
It's making an under statement to say... this was a hypocrytical thing for a so called 'pro democracy' country to have done.

One might ask, how is it such acts can be committed by a country that’s supposed to be ‘pro democracy’ ?
Could it be a combination of indifference, apathy, disbelief & blind ignorance on the part of the electorate. If so then such members of that electorate must share a common guilt, for to turn a blind eye to evil acts & do nothing is to participate in evil acts.

I’d now like to consider how it is that politicians in a democratic country could commit such acts, not be punished for those acts & even wind up with a Nobel peace prize at the end of it !

Lets take a look at a large proportion of the Americans here.

1) They don't believe the USA has demolished human rights & democracy in Chile, Guatemala, Nicaragua & elsewhere in the Americas & indeed the world.

2) If they do believe these things were done, they believe it was somehow done for the good of the people of those countries, the greater good of mankind & the free western world.

3) They don't care anyway that the US has done these things because the victims were non Americans, so as non Americans what the victims felt & what they thought & what they suffered simply doesn't matter.

4) It was part of the war on Communism, based on an imaginary Soviet threat in the Americas dreamed up by the 'lets unite in our hatred for a common enemy’ brigade who used the power of fear from phoney Soviet threat scares as a way to maintain the status quo of the mining interests of the US multi national corps that employed Chilean tin miners in slave like conditions. After all, they didn't want Allende's Unions after a fair deal for the guys that go down a dark dangerous hole all day & dig up tin.
Those same scare mongers are cooking up phoney terrorist threats from countries like Iraq so going to war there & ironically exacerbating
the terrorist threat !

5) Anyone that questions American atrocities & America meddling in other people’s countries, must be an anti American if they are a foreigner, or unpatriotic if they are American. Anyone that is either anti American or simply unpatriotic, must be deluded & what they say is worthless & untrue & uh let me see what else... uh well it's danged unpatriotic & danged un American.. that's enough isn't.

6) The circular argument that goes as follows.. Anyone that claims these things really happened must be a liberal & all liberals are not worth listening to because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to… ad infinitum.

7) Anyone that wants equitable conditions for employees, must be a goddam commie !

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between the following blind faiths ?
Blind faith 1) Being a proud American
Blind faith 2) Being a proud Muslim

Danged if I can tell the difference really.

Oh actually there is one... The Americans have killed even more people & messed even up more countries than the Muslims have in the last 100 years.
__________________
The truth is precious
 
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Nemo

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"Our government has kept us in a perpetual state of fear -- kept us in a continuous stampede of patriotic fervor -- with the cry of grave national emergency ... Always there has been some terrible evil to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it by furnishing the exorbitant sums demanded. Yet, in retrospect, these disasters seem never to have happened, seem never to have been quite real."

- General Douglas MacArthur, 1957
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by Robin:
Lets take one example of grossly unjust American practice abroad.
Kissenger & the CIA brought about the overthrow of Allende by supporting a military coup, even though Allende was the democratically elected president of Chile.
It's making an under statement to say... this was a hypocrytical thing for a so called 'pro democracy' country to have done.

One might ask, how is it such acts can be committed by a country that’s supposed to be ‘pro democracy’ ?
Could it be a combination of indifference, apathy, disbelief & blind ignorance on the part of the electorate. If so then such members of that electorate must share a common guilt, for to turn a blind eye to evil acts & do nothing is to participate in evil acts.

I’d now like to consider how it is that politicians in a democratic country could commit such acts, not be punished for those acts & even wind up with a Nobel peace prize at the end of it !

Lets take a look at a large proportion of the Americans here.

1) They don't believe the USA has demolished human rights & democracy in Chile, Guatemala, Nicaragua & elsewhere in the Americas & indeed the world.

2) If they do believe these things were done, they believe it was somehow done for the good of the people of those countries, the greater good of mankind & the free western world.

3) They don't care anyway that the US has done these things because the victims were non Americans, so as non Americans what the victims felt & what they thought & what they suffered simply doesn't matter.

4) It was part of the war on Communism, based on an imaginary Soviet threat in the Americas dreamed up by the 'lets unite in our hatred for a common enemy’ brigade who used the power of fear from phoney Soviet threat scares as a way to maintain the status quo of the mining interests of the US multi national corps that employed Chilean tin miners in slave like conditions. After all, they didn't want Allende's Unions after a fair deal for the guys that go down a dark dangerous hole all day & dig up tin.
Those same scare mongers are cooking up phoney terrorist threats from countries like Iraq so going to war there & ironically exacerbating
the terrorist threat !

5) Anyone that questions American atrocities & America meddling in other people’s countries, must be an anti American if they are a foreigner, or unpatriotic if they are American. Anyone that is either anti American or simply unpatriotic, must be deluded & what they say is worthless & untrue & uh let me see what else... uh well it's danged unpatriotic & danged un American.. that's enough isn't.

6) The circular argument that goes as follows.. Anyone that claims these things really happened must be a liberal & all liberals are not worth listening to because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to… ad infinitum.

7) Anyone that wants equitable conditions for employees, must be a goddam commie !

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between the following blind faiths ?
Blind faith 1) Being a proud American
Blind faith 2) Being a proud Muslim

Danged if I can tell the difference really.

Oh actually there is one... The Americans have killed even more people & messed even up more countries than the Muslims have in the last 100 years.
Robin, you the man! That's pretty good. I hate to say it. But its true. Its nobodys fault but ours. We've taken arrogance and hypocrisy to thermo-nuclear levels.

But you forgot one thing.
Blind faith 3) The album with Eric Clapton, Rick Gretch, Ginger Baker and Stevie Windwood.
 

Deegan

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This thread deserves my fav. pic.:2wave:

 

Simon W. Moon

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Deegan said:
This thread deserves my fav. pic.
Care to explain how this is not not flaming?
Care to explain how name-caling advances the a debate?
 

Navy Pride

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Billo_Really said:
Robin, you the man! That's pretty good. I hate to say it. But its true. Its nobodys fault but ours. We've taken arrogance and hypocrisy to thermo-nuclear levels.

But you forgot one thing.
Blind faith 3) The album with Eric Clapton, Rick Gretch, Ginger Baker and Stevie Windwood.
Give me a frigging break............Its all the USA fault...........The terrorists are just poor misguided picked on arabs............Give me a break.......

You Liberals turn my stomach........These terrorists will kill you just like they will kill me...........Why can't you get that through your thick skulls?
 

MiamiFlorida

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robin said:
Lets take one example of grossly unjust American practice abroad.
Kissenger & the CIA brought about the overthrow of Allende by supporting a military coup, even though Allende was the democratically elected president of Chile.
It's making an under statement to say... this was a hypocrytical thing for a so called 'pro democracy' country to have done.

One might ask, how is it such acts can be committed by a country that’s supposed to be ‘pro democracy’ ?
Could it be a combination of indifference, apathy, disbelief & blind ignorance on the part of the electorate. If so then such members of that electorate must share a common guilt, for to turn a blind eye to evil acts & do nothing is to participate in evil acts.

I’d now like to consider how it is that politicians in a democratic country could commit such acts, not be punished for those acts & even wind up with a Nobel peace prize at the end of it !

Lets take a look at a large proportion of the Americans here.

1) They don't believe the USA has demolished human rights & democracy in Chile, Guatemala, Nicaragua & elsewhere in the Americas & indeed the world.

2) If they do believe these things were done, they believe it was somehow done for the good of the people of those countries, the greater good of mankind & the free western world.

3) They don't care anyway that the US has done these things because the victims were non Americans, so as non Americans what the victims felt & what they thought & what they suffered simply doesn't matter.

4) It was part of the war on Communism, based on an imaginary Soviet threat in the Americas dreamed up by the 'lets unite in our hatred for a common enemy’ brigade who used the power of fear from phoney Soviet threat scares as a way to maintain the status quo of the mining interests of the US multi national corps that employed Chilean tin miners in slave like conditions. After all, they didn't want Allende's Unions after a fair deal for the guys that go down a dark dangerous hole all day & dig up tin.
Those same scare mongers are cooking up phoney terrorist threats from countries like Iraq so going to war there & ironically exacerbating
the terrorist threat !

5) Anyone that questions American atrocities & America meddling in other people’s countries, must be an anti American if they are a foreigner, or unpatriotic if they are American. Anyone that is either anti American or simply unpatriotic, must be deluded & what they say is worthless & untrue & uh let me see what else... uh well it's danged unpatriotic & danged un American.. that's enough isn't.

6) The circular argument that goes as follows.. Anyone that claims these things really happened must be a liberal & all liberals are not worth listening to because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to… ad infinitum.

7) Anyone that wants equitable conditions for employees, must be a goddam commie !

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between the following blind faiths ?
Blind faith 1) Being a proud American
Blind faith 2) Being a proud Muslim

Danged if I can tell the difference really.

Oh actually there is one... The Americans have killed even more people & messed even up more countries than the Muslims have in the last 100 years.
__________________
The truth is precious
Allende was the democratically elected President of Chile, but even democratically elected presidents can become dictators (and I am not justifying what happened in Chile). Do you know what Allende did with the Chilean Supreme Court and the Chilean Congress? Do you know about the "Comités de Defensa" that his regime set up? Have you ever taken the time to read the letter (unanimously signed)that the Chilean Congress sent Allende?

I am sure that if George Bush sent the Supreme Cout packing and abolished the power of Congress you would be screaming for his removal.

It should also be noted that you are talking about something that happened some 30+ years ago, at the height of the Cold War. There were communist guerrillas in almost every Latin American country, and not a single true democracy in the entire region...with the exception of Costa Rica.

It looks like the U.S. meddling has produced some favorable results: Today there are 33 democracies in 34 countries in the Americas. Now I suggest you look to Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia and tell me about the legacy that our European counterparts left behind. Bring a barf bag.
 

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Simon W. Moon said:
Care to explain how this is not not flaming?
Care to explain how name-caling advances the a debate?

Oh......my bad, was that not the point of the thread from the start?:roll:

How can you read this thread, an attack on the majority of Americans, by some arrogant, ignorant liberal from Europe, and not smell the burn. I would imagine it's because you agree, and it works right in to your own agenda. I directed the liberal idiot at no one in paticular, just as his attack of Americans was not. I hope this helps you in your struggle to get a clue.;)
 

Simon W. Moon

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Deegan said:
How can you read this thread, an attack on the majority of Americans, by some arrogant, ignorant liberal from Europe, and not smell the burn.
Being wrong and mistaken is not the same thing as flaming.

Deegan said:
I would imagine it's because you agree, and it works right in to your own agenda.
You imagination is utterly irrelevant. You're also wrong and mistaken.

Deegan said:
I directed the liberal idiot at no one in paticular, just as his attack of Americans was not. I hope this helps you in your struggle to get a clue.
If you'd like to present a premise and then proceed to back it up, please consider yourself thoroughly invited to do so.

What you posted was not debate. It was a flame.

If you'd like to flame, please do so in The Basement.
 
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Deegan

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Deegan said:
This thread deserves my fav. pic.:2wave:


He ignorantly talked of American "meddling" and how we have "ruined so many countries" This picture tells a different story, and is actually the most factual thing posted thus far. I suggest reading it again, and please don't give up the struggle for a clue.;)
 

Simon W. Moon

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Deegan said:
He ignorantly talked of American "meddling" and how we have "ruined so many countries."
Since this is a debate forum you should go ahead and debate. The next step after a premise that you disagree with is laid out is rebuttal. You should rectify his ignorance with facts.
 

Comrade Brian

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Deegan said:
This thread deserves my fav. pic.:2wave:


Why do you believe this crap?

Wasn't it W. Wilson who sent troops to Russia in 1917 to stop the overthrow of the Tsar so they would continue the imperialist war? Wasn't it Kennedy who tried to invade Cuba and reinstall US domination there?

And Communism didn't kill 100,000,000 dictators like Stalin killed those people.

Maybe we should tally people who died under capitalism, and those who died in extreme poverty under it. Considear it.
 
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Deegan

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Comrade Brian said:
Why do you believe this crap?

Wasn't it W. Wilson who sent troops to Russia in 1917 to stop the overthrow of the Tsar so they would continue the imperialist war? Wasn't it Kennedy who tried to invade Cuba and reinstall US domination there?

And Communism didn't kill 100,000,000 dictators like Stalin killed those people.

Maybe we should tally people who died under capitalism, and those who died in extreme poverty under it. Considear it.

Go right ahead, I would rather die of eating too many steaks, then die of starvation under communism! You have no point, you should have just stayed out of the argument, but feel free to respond, I would love, and enjoy tearing you a new one.;)
 

SMIRKnCHIMP

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Navy Pride said:
Give me a frigging break............Its all the USA fault...........The terrorists are just poor misguided picked on arabs............Give me a break.......

You Liberals turn my stomach........These terrorists will kill you just like they will kill me...........Why can't you get that through your thick skulls?
How many women and kids were slaughtered at the HANDs of the American Military in IRAQ?
 

robin

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Navy Pride said:
Give me a frigging break............Its all the USA fault...........The terrorists are just poor misguided picked on arabs............Give me a break.......

You Liberals turn my stomach........These terrorists will kill you just like they will kill me...........Why can't you get that through your thick skulls?
Deegan simply proved 6)... you too N.Pride becuase where did I say I approve of terrorism or say I think they should not face the full force of the law ?
So you guys are proving my points. I don't think you really read the essence of my title post or took it on board. You scream 'Anti American, liberal & anti patriotic' at anyone that simply wants the truth & that is concerned with human rights. I have to say I think you are taking a rather unintelligent & hysterical approach.
 
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robin

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Navy Pride said:
Give me a frigging break............Its all the USA fault...........The terrorists are just poor misguided picked on arabs............Give me a break.......

You Liberals turn my stomach........These terrorists will kill you just like they will kill me...........Why can't you get that through your thick skulls?
Deegan simply proved 6)... you too N.Pride becuase where did I say I
approve of terrorism or say I think they should not face the full force
of the law ?
So you guys are proving my points. I don't think you really read the
essence of my title post or took it on board. You scream 'Anti
American,
liberal & anti patriotic' at anyone that simply wants the truth & that
is concerned with human rights. I have to say I think you are taking a
rather unintelligent & hysterical approach, you are also deluded.
 
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robin said:
Lets take one example of grossly unjust American practice abroad.
Kissenger & the CIA brought about the overthrow of Allende by supporting a military coup, even though Allende was the democratically elected president of Chile.
It's making an under statement to say... this was a hypocrytical thing for a so called 'pro democracy' country to have done.

One might ask, how is it such acts can be committed by a country that’s supposed to be ‘pro democracy’ ?
Could it be a combination of indifference, apathy, disbelief & blind ignorance on the part of the electorate. If so then such members of that electorate must share a common guilt, for to turn a blind eye to evil acts & do nothing is to participate in evil acts.

I’d now like to consider how it is that politicians in a democratic country could commit such acts, not be punished for those acts & even wind up with a Nobel peace prize at the end of it !

Lets take a look at a large proportion of the Americans here.

1) They don't believe the USA has demolished human rights & democracy in Chile, Guatemala, Nicaragua & elsewhere in the Americas & indeed the world.

2) If they do believe these things were done, they believe it was somehow done for the good of the people of those countries, the greater good of mankind & the free western world.

3) They don't care anyway that the US has done these things because the victims were non Americans, so as non Americans what the victims felt & what they thought & what they suffered simply doesn't matter.

4) It was part of the war on Communism, based on an imaginary Soviet threat in the Americas dreamed up by the 'lets unite in our hatred for a common enemy’ brigade who used the power of fear from phoney Soviet threat scares as a way to maintain the status quo of the mining interests of the US multi national corps that employed Chilean tin miners in slave like conditions. After all, they didn't want Allende's Unions after a fair deal for the guys that go down a dark dangerous hole all day & dig up tin.
Those same scare mongers are cooking up phoney terrorist threats from countries like Iraq so going to war there & ironically exacerbating
the terrorist threat !

5) Anyone that questions American atrocities & America meddling in other people’s countries, must be an anti American if they are a foreigner, or unpatriotic if they are American. Anyone that is either anti American or simply unpatriotic, must be deluded & what they say is worthless & untrue & uh let me see what else... uh well it's danged unpatriotic & danged un American.. that's enough isn't.

6) The circular argument that goes as follows.. Anyone that claims these things really happened must be a liberal & all liberals are not worth listening to because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to, because they say things that liberals say & what liberals say is not worth listening to… ad infinitum.

7) Anyone that wants equitable conditions for employees, must be a goddam commie !

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between the following blind faiths ?
Blind faith 1) Being a proud American
Blind faith 2) Being a proud Muslim

Danged if I can tell the difference really.

Oh actually there is one... The Americans have killed even more people & messed even up more countries than the Muslims have in the last 100 years.
__________________
The truth is precious

:lol: I love how you attempt to demonize America and make it seem more evil than every other country in the world. It is true that history tends to favour the few evils committed rather than the many good actions. Have you thought about setting these standards to your own country or any other country for that matter? The French still think it was ok to massacre any aristocrat or religious figure/follower they could get their hands on and murder the royal family during the Reign of Terror. England massacred thousands of protestants during Mary's reign. Germany committed genocide against anyone who wasn't white and christian. The Spanish had the Inquisition. North Korea massacred the South Koreans. Then of course there's Vietnam. Etc etc ad infinitum. The plain truth of the matter is that throughout history EVERY nation has acted in it's own self-interest. Even yours ;) so if you want to speak of "grossly unjust practice" you should research the history of your own nation and that of continental Europe. Do I like the practices of America? No. But I like the practices of Europe even less.
 

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
:lol: I love how you attempt to demonize America and make it seem more evil than every other country in the world. It is true that history tends to favour the few evils committed rather than the many good actions. Have you thought about setting these standards to your own country or any other country for that matter? The French still think it was ok to massacre any aristocrat or religious figure/follower they could get their hands on and murder the royal family during the Reign of Terror. England massacred thousands of protestants during Mary's reign. Germany committed genocide against anyone who wasn't white and christian. The Spanish had the Inquisition. North Korea massacred the South Koreans. Then of course there's Vietnam. Etc etc ad infinitum. The plain truth of the matter is that throughout history EVERY nation has acted in it's own self-interest. Even yours ;) so if you want to speak of "grossly unjust practice" you should research the history of your own nation and that of continental Europe. Do I like the practices of America? No. But I like the practices of Europe even less.
This is ridiculous... why do you assume I approve of Brit atrocities or anyone else's ?
What I find unsettling to the stomache is the sheer degree to which Americans are so self righteous about being purveyors of freedom & justice when on so many occasions they have done precisely the opposite !
 

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robin said:
This is ridiculous... why do you assume This post is good and has excellent points. of Brit atrocities or anyone else's ?
What I find unsettling to the stomache is the sheer degree to which Americans are so self righteous about being purveyors of freedom & justice when on so many occasions they have done precisely the opposite !
How have we so often done the opposite? This should be good.:roll:
 
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robin said:
This is ridiculous... why do you assume This post is good and has excellent points. of Brit atrocities or anyone else's ?
What I find unsettling to the stomache is the sheer degree to which Americans are so self righteous about being purveyors of freedom & justice when on so many occasions they have done precisely the opposite !
:lol: I was making a point and a very good one which you seem to have evaded. I'll make another one..we're no more or less arogant or "self-righteous" than any other citizens of any other nation in the world with the exception of the French. But thats ok..sit on your little island and dream up all of the criticisms you can but I would think that creating some concerning your own country would be far more productive.
 
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Billo_Really said:
Robin, you the man! That's pretty good. I hate to say it. But its true. Its nobodys fault but ours. We've taken arrogance and hypocrisy to thermo-nuclear levels.

But you forgot one thing.
Blind faith 3) The album with Eric Clapton, Rick Gretch, Ginger Baker and Stevie Windwood.
Thanks Bill ;)
 
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robin said:
Thanks Bill ;)
If you had EVER done research on Allende you'd know that the majority of the population wanted him gone. In addition to insane reforms his policies skyrocketed the country's inflation to 140% . He destroyed the economy. He alligned himself with Cuba whos run by a dictator who loved to point nukes at us. First he changed the government to socialism then turned it into a dictatorship. Oh and by the way. He did not get the popular vote in the first place...it was within the margin of error. Do your research.
 

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Napoleon's Nightingale said:
If you had EVER done research on Allende you'd know that the majority of the population wanted him gone. In addition to insane reforms his policies skyrocketed the country's inflation to 140% . He destroyed the economy. He alligned himself with Cuba whos run by a dictator who loved to point nukes at us. First he changed the government to socialism then turned it into a dictatorship. Oh and by the way. He did not get the popular vote in the first place...it was within the margin of error. Do your research.
Do your own research. Allende's percentage might have been within the margin of errors compared to the next closest candidate (Jorje Alessandri), but was almost ten percentage points away from the next candidate. According to Chile's law, when none of the candidate win a majority, the senate chooses the president. Ours is not the only correct way to set up a democracy. And it's more fair to say that the majority of the wealthy population wanted him gone. The lower classes were the ones who held the pro-Allende rallies.
 

ban.the.electoral.college

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Deegan said:
Go right ahead, I would rather die of eating too many steaks, then die of starvation under communism! You have no point, you should have just stayed out of the argument, but feel free to respond, I would love, and enjoy tearing you a new one.;)
The only thing I've seen you tear is your reputation as a debater. Oh, but that picture you have is just SO novel!! Let me guess, one of your righty-whitey friends sent it to you in one those really dumb anti-liberal chain letters. It's really a nice picture though. I can really appreciate the way it highlights your creative contribution to political argument. I mean, how long did it take you to think about inserting that .jpg? Or was it a .gif? Or maybe some really new high-tech ultra secret intelligent right wing format that liberals just don't get? Hmm... let us all know. Ok, flamer!

But back to the topic. Yeah, man. I think that we have a serious problem in the U.S., too many blood thirsty righty's and not enough bleeding hearts. I feel a lot of guilt about turning on the news to see murder this, murder that, killer here, car jacker there... you know. And then we're just stumbeling all over the globe in the name of freedom. Espescially today. There's no reason to spill young blood overseas. Not for freedom. Not for terrorists. Not for GW,
or the bassball lovin', steak eatin', hater addressed previously(dot)(dot)(dot)
 
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