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The Roberts Court takes aim at the Establishment Clause

absolutely. what confuses you exactly?

"We have a system to deal with these issues when one set of rights goes against another."

"women who have had multiple abortions, treat abortion as a contraceptive and the unborn as medical waste, shouldn't get to have an opinion on abortion."

And you don't see anything contradictory or sexist or misanthropic in juxtaposing those two thoughts.
 
It is complete bullshit that schools are secretly teaching kids terrible things. If the parents don't know what kids are learning its because they are too lazy to find out. Every parent has the right to see the curriculum. It's a public document, available to everyone at the superintendent of schools office and at the Board of Education office. Every teacher has a curriculum for her grade in her room which may be read by every parent.

The people that approve the curriculum are the locally elected members of the school board. The parents that do most of the bitching about schools are the same people that never vote in local elections.

The accusation that schools are nothing more than institutions for sexual grooming and abuse also falls into the bullshit category and is largely the result of one writer Carol Shakeshaft who currently teaches graduate courses in research design, policy research methods, and gender and race equity, at Virginia Commonwealth University's school of Educational Leadership. She has, since 2002, been writing articles and books about sexual assault and harassment in schools that have been criticized for her misleading statistics, misleading definitions and inadequate research.


The reality is between 2017-18 there were about 15,000 cases of sexual assault in public schools reported
There are about 50,000,000 K-12 students in the US. That means about .03% of school student have been sexually assaulted and most of the assaults have been students assaulting other students.


Are there problems in schools. Sure, every large institution has problems and should address them and do better. Are our public schools dens of dark sexual improprieties and attacks? They are not. If parents are concerned about what goes on in schools they can vote in school board elections, read the curriculum, volunteer at school, attend PTA , read their chid's textbooks and written work and go to parent teacher meetings.
lol if there's no "problem" at schools, then you have nothing to fear of this law then.

If you want to live in ignorance and bliss, and just tell all the parents that they're wrong, then why lie, and make it about lgbt when it's clearly only groomers that are mentioned in the law?

unless, of course, you're saying grooming is LGBT, in which case, hmmm...not sure you really want to imply that. So I suggest you stop lying about what the law does and doesn't do.
 
"We have a system to deal with these issues when one set of rights goes against another."

"women who have had multiple abortions, treat abortion as a contraceptive and the unborn as medical waste, shouldn't get to have an opinion on abortion."

And you don't see anything contradictory or sexist or misanthropic in juxtaposing those two thoughts.
none at all. What confuses you about it?

Abortion rights went through the court system, several times. As I said, we have a system.
 
Why you find it so hard to mind your own goddamn business.
I say that about the left all the time. It's my business to cater to your personal sexual identity...or else...but abortion isn't my business? How you teach my kids isn't my business? hmm.
 
Totally agree. The "don't say gay" law, does restrict teaching about the issue, and not every lesson is about grooming, either, if done correctly. And there are already laws against sexual abuse, etc. of minors. And yes, the "don't say gay" law is actually not called that. However, I was specifically responding to this:
fair enough, and i was referring specifically to the court system. Legislation rarely takes all rights into account, so we need courts to abjudicate these issues when rights and regulations clash.
So, to rephrase the question in a more neutral-sounding way, from your perspective, what rights does the so-called "don't say gay" expand, and how does it protect students', teachers', and parents' rights in such a way that it is also not stomping on other rights of students, teachers, and parents, and is also not covered by some other law, or setting up one group of people (in this case, gay and transgendered students) to be marginalized and misunderstood rather than accepted?
Well for one, if it's meant to marginalize LGBT students(if those exist) or teachers, it's doing a bad job of it. Not a single student or teacher has been punished for being LGBT because of this law's passing.

The specific provisions one were to list in answer to the question, in my opinion, would be the parts of the law that are not the "wrong decision."
well, that depends on the point of view, does it? I'm not asking you to agree with the law, im just asking you not to lie about it. Maybe you don't like the fact that parents are now entitled to any counseling documents at their school(in florida) on demand, for XYZ reasons, and I might even grant you that you could be correct hypothetically, but i would see no reason to involve LGBT people into this anymore than, say, anyone else. To pretend this is some unusual provision meant to harm "lgbt teens" or "lgbt teachers"(if they're doing nothing wrong, idk how it could harm them) is just way disproportionate over what the law actually does. This law is more of a bureaucratic change than a social one.
 
lol if there's no "problem" at schools, then you have nothing to fear of this law then.

If you want to live in ignorance and bliss, and just tell all the parents that they're wrong, then why lie, and make it about lgbt when it's clearly only groomers that are mentioned in the law?

unless, of course, you're saying grooming is LGBT, in which case, hmmm...not sure you really want to imply that. So I suggest you stop lying about what the law does and doesn't do.
You know damn well who's calling the LGBTQ+ community groomers, not only that but they're calling anyone who's liberal a groomer now. MTG calls libs pedophiles. If you don't want your party getting labeled, you should be speaking to them.
Let me refresh your memory.






Your posts remind me of this pastor in Eureka Springs thinking he's being attacked because the town supports inclusion. He's the perfect example of the anti woke. You even have a candidate running on this platform. What do you expect?
 
fair enough, and i was referring specifically to the court system. Legislation rarely takes all rights into account, so we need courts to abjudicate these issues when rights and regulations clash.

Well for one, if it's meant to marginalize LGBT students(if those exist) or teachers, it's doing a bad job of it. Not a single student or teacher has been punished for being LGBT because of this law's passing.


well, that depends on the point of view, does it? I'm not asking you to agree with the law, im just asking you not to lie about it. Maybe you don't like the fact that parents are now entitled to any counseling documents at their school(in florida) on demand, for XYZ reasons, and I might even grant you that you could be correct hypothetically, but i would see no reason to involve LGBT people into this anymore than, say, anyone else. To pretend this is some unusual provision meant to harm "lgbt teens" or "lgbt teachers"(if they're doing nothing wrong, idk how it could harm them) is just way disproportionate over what the law actually does. This law is more of a bureaucratic change than a social one.
There have been over 140 bills written against the LGBTQ+ community this year by cons. You mean to tell me cons aren't sending a message? Give me a break. Cons are grabbing a base, and that base doesn't like the LGBTQ+ community. Why on earth do cons need to use this as a calling card? Why use targeting a marginalized group as a calling card if it means nothing? Because over half your base hates the LGBTQ+ community that's why. Cons draw White Nationalist groups, and homophobic church leaders. It "speaks" to your base.


Targeting black history, and those who teach it is terrorizing. Teachers are afraid to teach so they are now forced to avoid anything close to what is stated in this law because those political guidelines are not clear and have legal consequences. This is what happens when politics are brought into the classroom. Cons know this. What reaction did you expect?

DeSantis is calling it "woke mind virus." Tell me, how is it not controversial when inclusion is being compared to a virus? Again, what reaction do you expect?


Cons are targeting already marginalized groups in this country for political purposes. They are targeting groups who were beat, segregated, harassed and even killed in Americas past for who they are or what they looked like. The LGBTQ+ community, minorities, and women.

What message do you think that sends? What reaction do you think that brings? Why do you think the Republican Party is so white, and male? White men are only 31% of our population, yet they hold most positions in the Republican Party. There's a reason. They're the only group of Americans Republicans don't offend. That's why.

It's hard for me to believe you don't know. The game of acting ignorant to avoid responsibility is getting old coming from the Republican Party. So old nobody believes it anymore. From Trump not realizing he had to give back documents, or posting a blatant racist to his twitter feed, to DeSantis pretending these "anti" woke laws aren't harming marginalized populations. Stop with the shock that people are upset.

I think cons know they harm people. You can tell by the cheers at cons political rallies they love it but, there's people on the other end of these bills, and laws.
Stop being surprised by the push back. These laws, and legislation are a blurry line against marginalized groups for a reason. They're doing as much hate for their base as they can get away with. That's become the Republican message.
 
There have been over 140 bills written against the LGBTQ+ community this year by cons.
which lgbt people have been punished, exactly? can you name one?
You mean to tell me cons aren't sending a message?
Whatever message is being sent to the "lgbt community", you're reading into it. No one cares who you sleep with, as long as they're adults.
Give me a break. Cons are grabbing a base, and that base doesn't like the LGBTQ+ community. Why on earth do cons need to use this as a calling card? Why use targeting a marginalized group as a calling card if it means nothing? Because over half your base hates the LGBTQ+ community that's why. Cons draw White Nationalist groups, and homophobic church leaders. It "speaks" to your base.
no, you give me a break. You don't have a single individual who was punished because they were gay, and according to you, hundreds of laws have been passed, so where are they? Where are these so-called lgbt victims of these laws?
Targeting black history, and those who teach it is terrorizing. Teachers are afraid to teach so they are now forced to avoid anything close to what is stated in this law because those political guidelines are not clear and have legal consequences. This is what happens when politics are brought into the classroom. Cons know this. What reaction did you expect?

DeSantis is calling it "woke mind virus." Tell me, how is it not controversial when inclusion is being compared to a virus? Again, what reaction do you expect?


Cons are targeting already marginalized groups in this country for political purposes. They are targeting groups who were beat, segregated, harassed and even killed in Americas past for who they are or what they looked like. The LGBTQ+ community, minorities, and women.

What message do you think that sends? What reaction do you think that brings? Why do you think the Republican Party is so white, and male? White men are only 31% of our population, yet they hold most positions in the Republican Party. There's a reason. They're the only group of Americans Republicans don't offend. That's why.

It's hard for me to believe you don't know. The game of acting ignorant to avoid responsibility is getting old coming from the Republican Party. So old nobody believes it anymore. From Trump not realizing he had to give back documents, or posting a blatant racist to his twitter feed, to DeSantis pretending these "anti" woke laws aren't harming marginalized populations. Stop with the shock that people are upset.

I think cons know they harm people. You can tell by the cheers at cons political rallies they love it but, there's people on the other end of these bills, and laws.
Stop being surprised by the push back. These laws, and legislation are a blurry line against marginalized groups for a reason. They're doing as much hate for their base as they can get away with. That's become the Republican message.
I don't have time to entertain delusions. If you can't name anyone who's been punished for "being gay", as a result of these specific laws, then you have nothing to say.

there HAVE been straight people who have punished or restricted, because go figure, many groomers are actually straight, and simply hijack the LGBT movement to shield their own sexuality. Are you telling me that you defend these people? Do you defend groomers? Is that really the LGBT agenda here?
 
which lgbt people have been punished, exactly? can you name one?

Whatever message is being sent to the "lgbt community", you're reading into it. No one cares who you sleep with, as long as they're adults.

no, you give me a break. You don't have a single individual who was punished because they were gay, and according to you, hundreds of laws have been passed, so where are they? Where are these so-called lgbt victims of these laws?

I don't have time to entertain delusions. If you can't name anyone who's been punished for "being gay", as a result of these specific laws, then you have nothing to say.

there HAVE been straight people who have punished or restricted, because go figure, many groomers are actually straight, and simply hijack the LGBT movement to shield their own sexuality. Are you telling me that you defend these people? Do you defend groomers? Is that really the LGBT agenda here?
What part of CONS ARE TERRORIZING a marginalized group did you not understand? Do you know what that means? Do you not realize this is harmful in and of itself?

Some school officials have been accused of warning teachers not to wear rainbow articles of clothing and to remove pictures of their same-sex spouses from their desks.


As Florida’s Parental Rights in Education law — or what critics have dubbed the “Don’t Say Gay” law — goes into effect Friday, some of the state’s public school districts have begun rolling out new policies to limit LGBTQ issues and identities from being discussed in the classroom.

On Tuesday night, the Leon County School Board unanimously approved its “LGBTQ Inclusive School Guide,” which includes a provision to alert parents if a student who is “open about their gender identity” is in their child’s physical education class or with them on an overnight school trip.

Preventing medical care is harmful. Shaming, and lying about people is harmful. Preventing participation in social and sport events is harmful.
Texas lawmakers this year passed bills banning puberty blockers and hormone therapy for transgender kids and restricting the college sports teams that trans athletes can join. They also expanded the definition of sexual conduct in a way that could include some drag performances in a bill meant to ban sexually explicit performances in front of kids. But legislation seeking to limit classroom lessons, teacher guidance and school programming about sexual orientation and gender identity missed a key deadline to advance during the final days of the regular session.

“Texas has become one of the most dangerous and hostile places for transgender youth and transgender people and their families in America,” Andrea Segovia, senior field and policy adviser of the Transgender Education Network of Texas, told reporters in February.

The clash came at a time when 72% of Texans support anti-discrimination protections for LGBTQ people, according to a 2021 survey from the Public Religion Research Institute.



With all the lawsuits pending, I'm sure I don't have to come on here and tell you which women have been harmed by the abortion bans.

Eight more women are joining a lawsuit against the state of Texas, saying the state's abortion bans put their health or lives at risk while facing pregnancy-related medical emergencies.https://www.npr.org/2023/05/22/1177425651/texas-women-sue-abortion




Stop trying to add any normalcy to your argument. It's not normal to have an anti woke agenda, it's not normal to accept lies as truth and act on those lies. Cons aren't winning elections for a reason. Your party needs to get it's shit together and realize this won't fly for very long. You will have to accept that there are people in this country you don't like, but they have the same rights as you and when you start taking them away, they're going to fight back. This shouldn't be a surprise.

Nobody has been grooming your children except those arrested for actually grooming your children, women are not baby killers because they got an abortion, and black history isn't told to make white kids feel bad. Stop using lies as a basis for passing laws on the marginalized. It's terrorizing them and that IS harmful.
 
I recognize that there are other threads about the separation of church and state, but this is a specific piece about the current Court:

The Roberts Court takes aim at the Establishment Clause (Hill, Opinion)​

"The irony here is that at a time of growing secularism in American society, the current conservative majority on the court is becoming even more pro-religion, reversing decades-old precedents. Under Chief Justice John Roberts, the court has moved away from using the Establishment Clause to enforce a “high wall of separation” to protect non-Christians and non-believers; it now uses the Free Exercise Clause not simply to accommodate religion but to impose the religious views of a minority upon an emerging secular majority. Call this the “New Sectarianism.”"

What struck me particularly, was this statement: "Under the Roberts Court, there has not been a single case where claims of free exercise of religion have been rejected. The court has consistently defended the rights of an individual or minority to impose its religious views on a majority."

I went and looked, and the statement is correct. I could not find a single case refuting the claim, from Hobby Lobby forward. I think this should be of concern to everyone, religious or not. No one wins all of the time - except with this Supreme Court. Does the Establishment Clause still have meaning? Has the Supreme Choir simply written it out of the Constitution?
It’s horrifying, watching our country inch toward the “Handmaids’s Tale”.
 
It’s horrifying, watching our country inch toward the “Handmaids’s Tale”.
Yeah, you know when cons slogan is MAGA and the bills they're writing are bordering Draconian, it gives a bit of a timeline to "AGAIN, " doesn't it.

Yet they claim they have no idea that an agenda targeting blacks, women, and the LGBTQ+ community looks like they want to go back too far for comfort.
 
lol if there's no "problem" at schools, then you have nothing to fear of this law then.

If you want to live in ignorance and bliss, and just tell all the parents that they're wrong, then why lie, and make it about lgbt when it's clearly only groomers that are mentioned in the law?

unless, of course, you're saying grooming is LGBT, in which case, hmmm...not sure you really want to imply that. So I suggest you stop lying about what the law does and doesn't do.
I never said anything about grooming or groomers or LGBT or gays. That's your schtick. I was addressing your statement that parents have a right to know what their kids are being taught implying that something is going on in schools that is wrong and immoral. Parents have always had the right to read, copy and discuss the curriculum with teachers, superintendents and school board members. I listed places you could access the curriculum and I specifically addressed the issue of problems with schools and how parents could address them.

I think you problem is you start shooting your mouth off before your brain has figured out you've just read.
 
I never said anything about grooming or groomers or LGBT or gays. That's your schtick. I was addressing your statement that parents have a right to know what their kids are being taught implying that something is going on in schools that is wrong and immoral. Parents have always had the right to read, copy and discuss the curriculum with teachers, superintendents and school board members. I listed places you could access the curriculum and I specifically addressed the issue of problems with schools and how parents could address them.

I think you problem is you start shooting your mouth off before your brain has figured out you've just read.
You're assuming, of course, that any of it was read.
 
which lgbt people have been punished, exactly? can you name one?

You don't have a single individual who was punished because they were gay, and according to you, hundreds of laws have been passed, so where are they? Where are these so-called lgbt victims of these laws?

I don't have time to entertain delusions. If you can't name anyone who's been punished for "being gay", as a result of these specific laws, then you have nothing to say.
Newspapers usually don't give out names of people who have committed suicide, or individuals who have been denied jobs, or renters evicted. Not seeing individuals named doesn't mean that this isn't happening.

Here are articles telling how LGBT individuals have been harmed or hurt for their sexual orientation.





 
All right, @DarkWizard12 , I've printed out the "Don't Say Gay" law (or least what I think it is) so I can read it (I'm a tactile reader). Expect a post here at some point which will explain what the law says based on … the law.
 
Newspapers usually don't give out names of people who have committed suicide, or individuals who have been denied jobs, or renters evicted. Not seeing individuals named doesn't mean that this isn't happening.

Here are articles telling how LGBT individuals have been harmed or hurt for their sexual orientation.





So all you have is speculation is that these laws may be linked to teen suicide, despite the fact that teen suicide has been going up for years now.

That is so far and away from what i was asking from you, and you have to do this because none of the laws have ever punished anyone for being gay, thus exposing the propaganda against it.
 
I never said anything about grooming or groomers or LGBT or gays. That's your schtick. I was addressing your statement that parents have a right to know what their kids are being taught implying that something is going on in schools that is wrong and immoral. Parents have always had the right to read, copy and discuss the curriculum with teachers, superintendents and school board members. I listed places you could access the curriculum and I specifically addressed the issue of problems with schools and how parents could address them.

I think you problem is you start shooting your mouth off before your brain has figured out you've just read.
If you believe there nothing wrong going on in the schools, what then is your problem with the laws that explicitely make it easier for parents to exercise these rights?
 
What part of CONS ARE TERRORIZING a marginalized group did you not understand? Do you know what that means? Do you not realize this is harmful in and of itself?

Some school officials have been accused of warning teachers not to wear rainbow articles of clothing and to remove pictures of their same-sex spouses from their desks.


As Florida’s Parental Rights in Education law — or what critics have dubbed the “Don’t Say Gay” law — goes into effect Friday, some of the state’s public school districts have begun rolling out new policies to limit LGBTQ issues and identities from being discussed in the classroom.

On Tuesday night, the Leon County School Board unanimously approved its “LGBTQ Inclusive School Guide,” which includes a provision to alert parents if a student who is “open about their gender identity” is in their child’s physical education class or with them on an overnight school trip.

Preventing medical care is harmful. Shaming, and lying about people is harmful. Preventing participation in social and sport events is harmful.
Texas lawmakers this year passed bills banning puberty blockers and hormone therapy for transgender kids and restricting the college sports teams that trans athletes can join. They also expanded the definition of sexual conduct in a way that could include some drag performances in a bill meant to ban sexually explicit performances in front of kids. But legislation seeking to limit classroom lessons, teacher guidance and school programming about sexual orientation and gender identity missed a key deadline to advance during the final days of the regular session.

“Texas has become one of the most dangerous and hostile places for transgender youth and transgender people and their families in America,” Andrea Segovia, senior field and policy adviser of the Transgender Education Network of Texas, told reporters in February.

The clash came at a time when 72% of Texans support anti-discrimination protections for LGBTQ people, according to a 2021 survey from the Public Religion Research Institute.



With all the lawsuits pending, I'm sure I don't have to come on here and tell you which women have been harmed by the abortion bans.

Eight more women are joining a lawsuit against the state of Texas, saying the state's abortion bans put their health or lives at risk while facing pregnancy-related medical emergencies.https://www.npr.org/2023/05/22/1177425651/texas-women-sue-abortion




Stop trying to add any normalcy to your argument. It's not normal to have an anti woke agenda, it's not normal to accept lies as truth and act on those lies. Cons aren't winning elections for a reason. Your party needs to get it's shit together and realize this won't fly for very long. You will have to accept that there are people in this country you don't like, but they have the same rights as you and when you start taking them away, they're going to fight back. This shouldn't be a surprise.

Nobody has been grooming your children except those arrested for actually grooming your children, women are not baby killers because they got an abortion, and black history isn't told to make white kids feel bad. Stop using lies as a basis for passing laws on the marginalized. It's terrorizing them and that IS harmful.
For one, sleeping with someone doesnt make you part of a marginalized group.
 
All right, @DarkWizard12 , I've printed out the "Don't Say Gay" law (or least what I think it is) so I can read it (I'm a tactile reader). Expect a post here at some point which will explain what the law says based on … the law.
I would have just assumed you would pull up the law on computer and use ctrl-f but, you do you. At least youre trying.
 
Yeah, you know when cons slogan is MAGA and the bills they're writing are bordering Draconian, it gives a bit of a timeline to "AGAIN, " doesn't it.

Yet they claim they have no idea that an agenda targeting blacks, women, and the LGBTQ+ community looks like they want to go back too far for comfort.
What makes the laws draconian exactly? That parents have a right to their kids counseling records or what....that you cant strip in front of 5 year olds? Or what lol what EXACTLY is draconian?
 
I would have just assumed you would pull up the law on computer and use ctrl-f but, you do you. At least youre trying.
Thank you…I think? I want to read it thoroughly, not just control-F to see what it actually does.
 
For one, sleeping with someone doesnt make you part of a marginalized group.
I have no words. It would take a while of explaining because you seem to have no knowledge of such things. I suggest some research before you spew this shit. Why engage with someone when you have no understanding of what they're talking about?
 
What makes the laws draconian exactly? That parents have a right to their kids counseling records or what....that you cant strip in front of 5 year olds? Or what lol what EXACTLY is draconian?
Parents have always had those rights. These laws weren't made because they didn't. They were made in an excessive attempt to target a marginalized group.
That is why they're draconian.
 
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