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The rise of domestic extremism in America

eohrnberger

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Fine speech coming from the party passing new voting restrictions because they're mad they lost the last election.
Correction: Election integrity and security.
After all, you are the one who was pitching the end to voter verification in this lengthy exchange, right?
What do you think the impact of that on election integrity? (Like complete elimination there of).
 

mrdeltoid

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Here is the meat:

" The percentage of attacks and plots committed by active-duty and reserve personnel rose in 2020 to 6.4 percent of all attacks and plots (7 of 110 total), up from 1.5 percent in 2019 (1 of 65 total) and none in 2018. Active-duty personnel perpetrated 4.5 percent of the attacks in 2020 (five incidents), and reservists conducted 1.8 percent (two incidents). While these individuals represent a tiny percentage of all current active-duty and reserve personnel, the increased number of incidents is still concerning.11 "

So what is drawing on all the hand wringing is 110 incidents in 2020, 7 of them involved active-duty or reserve personnel. 7 out of how many tens of thousands of active-duty and reserves? Compared to over 110+ nights of terror in Portland plus other cities, seems their focus is misplaced.

This is just the next false narrative brought to you by big media and they are using the headline to fool people that there is a problem so they can demand 'loyalty' oaths from our military. The CCP is having a good laugh over this. The left is absolutely destroying our country and our military, the best in the world, is the focus of their efforts now.
Right on the money. And you better believe they have plenty spies here, stoking the fire. We are being taken down from within. Notice how many times a day we hear the MSM saying the words "white supremacy". I'd like to see a word search for that and "racism" done on CNN and MSNBC.
 

mrdeltoid

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How about saying in this thread the reality of White Supremacist homegrown terrorists, rightwing lunatics all lathered up by trump. The deadly insurrection isn't enough for these weak, racist cowards. These are right wing extremists.

As long as we continue to talk past each other, there will be no end in sight. What does this kind of post accomplish. How does it make anything better? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm seriously concerned.
 

yankintx

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Except, it doesn't match reality. There are far more examples of left extremist activity, including additional examples last night. I'd prefer that we condemn all the extremist violence.

Article behind paywall, but appears to be more partisan spinning and an attempt to be devisive from WaPo.

A nice begining would be the Right claiming responsibility for Jan 6, and calling it what it was, insurrection.
 

Old 'N Chill

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As long as we continue to talk past each other, there will be no end in sight. What does this kind of post accomplish. How does it make anything better? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm seriously concerned.
It makes things better when people who are denying this are shown facts to wake them up. If anyone is talking past each other here, it's the ones who defend white nationalists and white supremacists in the United States of American. The right wing extremism is a problem, those who deny that, condone it.
 

dcsports

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A nice begining would be the Right claiming responsibility for Jan 6, and calling it what it was, insurrection.
It was an isurrection - an attempt to interfere in a lawful government process. That's what happened. Not 'treason', 'attempt to overthrow', 'rebellion', 'coup', etc. Thanks for getting the terminology right. That's been a challenge for many.

There's plenty of blame to go around on this. Certainly, Trump stirred the pot, and could have attempted to intervene sooner. Some on the fringe right pushed some outlandish theories - which detracted from the many legitimate concerns. The courts flat abdicated their responsibility in this regard - and the left discounted everything screaming 'it was perfect! No problems! And of course the biggest issue was probably the security failure by the capitol police and seargents at arms - leaving them unprepared for the crowd.
 

dcsports

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It makes things better when people who are denying this are shown facts to wake them up. If anyone is talking past each other here, it's the ones who defend white nationalists and white supremacists in the United States of American. The right wing extremism is a problem, those who deny that, condone it.
No one is 'defending white nationalists and white supremacists'. Society has pretty well rejected these, and their numbers are small. It IS very concerning that some on the left give them disproportional attention, blowing them up as a strawman.
 

craig

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WaPo stating the oh so obvious.

Data shows a surge in homegrown attacks not seen in a quarter-century
Domestic terrorism incidents have soared to new highs in the United States, driven chiefly by white-supremacist, anti-Muslim and anti-government extremists on the far right, according to a Washington Post analysis of data compiled by the Center for Strategic and International Studies.​
The surge reflects a growing threat from homegrown terrorism not seen in a quarter-century, with right-wing extremist attacks and plots greatly eclipsing those from the far left and causing more deaths, the analysis shows.​
So are you arguing over who are the worst rioters left or right? I think you should be thinking how we get back to the middle and fix this problem.
 

yankintx

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It was an isurrection - an attempt to interfere in a lawful government process. That's what happened. Not 'treason', 'attempt to overthrow', 'rebellion', 'coup', etc. Thanks for getting the terminology right. That's been a challenge for many.

There's plenty of blame to go around on this. Certainly, Trump stirred the pot, and could have attempted to intervene sooner. Some on the fringe right pushed some outlandish theories - which detracted from the many legitimate concerns. The courts flat abdicated their responsibility in this regard - and the left discounted everything screaming 'it was perfect! No problems! And of course the biggest issue was probably the security failure by the capitol police and seargents at arms - leaving them unprepared for the crowd.

You watch the timeline, and Trump's response in that timeline, negligence. This country dodged a bullet by not giving him a second term. Trumps words and inaction on Jan 6, shameful!
 

eohrnberger

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A nice begining would be the Right claiming responsibility for Jan 6, and calling it what it was, insurrection.
There was no insurrection on 1/6/21.
insurrection​
noun
Definition of insurrection : an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government​
Rebellion​
Rebellion, uprising, or insurrection is a refusal of obedience or order. It refers to the open resistance against the orders of an established authority.​
Insurrection and rebellion appear to be synonyms.

A charge of sedition - meaning incitement of a rebellion - has not been brought against any of the more than 400 people arrested to date. The most serious charges have been assault, conspiracy and obstruction of Congress or law enforcement.
Amid setbacks, prosecutors abandon some claims in U.S. Capitol riot cases
But the Justice Department has since acknowledged in court hearings that some of its evidence concerning the riot - carried out by a mob of supporters of former President Donald Trump to try to overturn his election loss - is less damning than it initially indicated.​
The department suffered another blow this week when U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta threatened to impose a gag order on prosecutors after Michael Sherwin, its former head prosecutor on the Capitol cases, told CBS’s “60 Minutes” program that evidence pointed toward sedition charges against some defendants.​
A charge of sedition - meaning incitement of a rebellion - has not been brought against any of the more than 400 people arrested to date. The most serious charges have been assault, conspiracy and obstruction of Congress or law enforcement.​
Prosecutors are in the early stages of building criminal cases ahead of the trials stemming from an attack that left five people dead including a police officer, forced lawmakers to hide for their own safety and interrupted the formal congressional certification of President Joe Biden’s election victory.​
But missteps by the government could harm its credibility as accused ringleaders begin asking courts to drop some of the most serious charges.​
“They are trying to build the most horrendous cases they can because the public wants it - and this is politicizing criminal justice,” said Gerald B. Lefcourt, who for decades has represented high-profile defendants in political demonstrations, including Black Panther leaders and “Chicago Seven” trial figure Abbie Hoffman.​
Federal prosecutors don't appear to be able to make the case for charges of sedition; no sedition charges, no insurrection.
1/6 was a protest which turned into a riot, very much like any number of other protests which have gone the same course in the last year or more.
 

eohrnberger

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You watch the timeline, and Trump's response in that timeline, negligence. This country dodged a bullet by not giving him a second term. Trumps words and inaction on Jan 6, shameful!
I'd agree and call this assessment fair.
 

TomFitz

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As long as we continue to talk past each other, there will be no end in sight. What does this kind of post accomplish. How does it make anything better? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm seriously concerned.

I can’t see any real advantage in trying to reason with people who stage Nazi styled torchlight parades and march in front of synagogues shouting “Jews will not replace us”.
 

TimPatriot

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No, the CCP had a great laugh on January 6. Prior to that day, your attempts to minimize the risk might have been more convincing. Now, after the entire nation witnessed right wing extremists storm the capitol, murder cops and chant for Pence to be hung based on imaginary fraud? You are not so credible now.
Sicknick wasn't murdered - I know that is inconvenient for your BS narrative. The DOJ has had to back off from going for sedition and other serious charges because why? Just like Russia collusion hoax, the media narrative and the corrupt establishment attempt (again) to 'get Trump' came up with nothing.

A handful of people out of hundreds of thousands crossed the line. Bad for them - arrest them, charge them, fine them. Basically you have a bunch of unlawful trespassing by a bunch of unarmed people. Some insurrection. Absurd.
 

TimPatriot

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Right on the money. And you better believe they have plenty spies here, stoking the fire. We are being taken down from within. Notice how many times a day we hear the MSM saying the words "white supremacy". I'd like to see a word search for that and "racism" done on CNN and MSNBC.
And some of those spies are even sleeping with high level Dems and yet nothing comes of it.
 

poweRob

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It makes things better when people who are denying this are shown facts to wake them up. If anyone is talking past each other here, it's the ones who defend white nationalists and white supremacists in the United States of American. The right wing extremism is a problem, those who deny that, condone it.
The right wing reaction in this thread is almost identical to a thread about 1/6. It's all about acting like it's no big deal or denying any of it even happened.
 

Old 'N Chill

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The right wing reaction in this thread is almost identical to a thread about 1/6. It's all about acting like it's no big deal or denying any of it even happened.
Yes, the trump party right wing are anti-American, and were thrilled to see the trump incited insurrection on our Capitol on January 6, 2021. Like trump, they were wetting their pants to see it succeed, and rip away the results of a valid American election, and shit on our democracy. They deny white supremacists, white nationalists and extremist homegrown terrorists, because just as they support trump, they support those groups in the United States of America. American trash, all of them.
 

mrdeltoid

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It makes things better when people who are denying this are shown facts to wake them up. If anyone is talking past each other here, it's the ones who defend white nationalists and white supremacists in the United States of American. The right wing extremism is a problem, those who deny that, condone it.
You keep throwing out these straw men, "it's the ones who defend white nationalists and white supremacists". And "right wing extremism is a problem, those who deny that, condone it." Who is "defending white nationalists"? Or "denying right wing extremists are a problem"? I haven't. I have the same disdain for thugs of any ilk. Let me ask you this though, do you believe the biggest threat to the black community is white supremacy?
 

D_NATURED

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Except, it doesn't match reality. There are far more examples of left extremist activity, including additional examples last night. I'd prefer that we condemn all the extremist violence.

Article behind paywall, but appears to be more partisan spinning and an attempt to be devisive from WaPo.

There's a valid distinction between massive civil unrest, after another case of police brutality, and the right-wing terrorist groups and plots the article mentioned. As a moderate, I'm disgusted by both. But, to compare them as you have is profoundly dumb.

I think your qualifications to declare what reality is is suspect. When a mob of disenfranchised black people burn down a Walmart, they don't kid themselves that it will overthrow our democracy, just slap us all awake to their pain. The right wing groups, however, aren't trying to change this country, they're trying to destroy it and replace it with a fascist state. THAT is the difference, as I see it. Therefore, your comparison is a strawman and, worse, ignores the relative agendas of the groups, one to change institutional racism and the other to preserve it.
 

mrdeltoid

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You keep throwing out these straw men, "it's the ones who defend white nationalists and white supremacists". And "right wing extremism is a problem, those who deny that, condone it." Who is "defending white nationalists"? Or "denying right wing extremists are a problem"? I haven't. I have the same disdain for thugs of any ilk. Let me ask you this though, do you believe the biggest threat to the black community is white supremacy?
 

Old 'N Chill

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You keep throwing out these straw men, "it's the ones who defend white nationalists and white supremacists". And "right wing extremism is a problem, those who deny that, condone it." Who is "defending white nationalists"? Or "denying right wing extremists are a problem"? I haven't. I have the same disdain for thugs of any ilk. Let me ask you this though, do you believe the biggest threat to the black community is white supremacy?
No straw men, mrdeltoid.....and I never said you were one to deny that right wing extremism is a problem, did I? However, many on the right here and in real life do deny it. There are a lot of threats in the black community, and a big one is racism, mostly cops who think that driving, jogging or walking while black is a crime, and a crime whose punishment is immediate death. Of course there are drug dealers, gangs, etc. in the black community, just like any other community in America and those things are threats to all Americans.
 

mrdeltoid

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I can’t see any real advantage in trying to reason with people who stage Nazi styled torchlight parades and march in front of synagogues shouting “Jews will not replace us”.
And the conservatives are "what about ANTIFA" and the progressives are "what about January 6th", and yada yada yada. To your point, I agree, you can't reason with people like that, and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I condemn that. I condemn the January 6th riot, I condemn the riots from last summer, I condemn the riots that are happening now. I gotta say though, I get the impression, that some DP posters have no interest in productive discussion and exchange of ideas, but would rather toss verbal daggers.
 

dcsports

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There's a valid distinction between massive civil unrest, after another case of police brutality, and the right-wing terrorist groups and plots the article mentioned. As a moderate, I'm disgusted by both. But, to compare them as you have is profoundly dumb.

I think your qualifications to declare what reality is is suspect. When a mob of disenfranchised black people burn down a Walmart, they don't kid themselves that it will overthrow our democracy, just slap us all awake to their pain. The right wing groups, however, aren't trying to change this country, they're trying to destroy it and replace it with a fascist state. THAT is the difference, as I see it. Therefore, your comparison is a strawman and, worse, ignores the relative agendas of the groups, one to change institutional racism and the other to preserve it.
I think that since you are attempting to deflect with personal attacks, that you really lose the point.

What difference does the agenda make? At a base level, these groups want social change - and neither is trying to combat/promote racism. Once they become destructive though - they are done. They become criminals, and vandals, and in many cases terrorists. If they burn down a police station, or a walmart, or a courthouse, or a labor building, or a city - it's bad! Assaulting police to break into the capitol and disrupt an official function - is also bad. In both cases, once they resort to violence and destruction they lose any ability to promote a valid message.
 

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I think that since you are attempting to deflect with personal attacks, that you really lose the point.

What difference does the agenda make? At a base level, these groups want social change - and neither is trying to combat/promote racism. Once they become destructive though - they are done. They become criminals, and vandals, and in many cases terrorists. If they burn down a police station, or a walmart, or a courthouse, or a labor building, or a city - it's bad! Assaulting police to break into the capitol and disrupt an official function - is also bad. In both cases, once they resort to violence and destruction they lose any ability to promote a valid message.

Well, it is dumb to think intentions don't matter. It's a copout to say that calling your idea dumb means I lose the debate. Considered intentions are one of the variables when one makes moral judgements. Someone who steals to eat is not as bad as someone who steals for profit. Someone who kills in self defense is not as bad as someone who kills for fun. You see? You should. The justice system and every major religion sees the difference.

The BLM and antfa rioters have a legitimate beef, if not a legitimate way of complaining. The fascist hoard had neither. The election wasn't stolen but the liberties of black people sure as **** have been. So, arguably, one side is more justified than the other in engaging in violence.

The idea that all violence is equal is false. The fascists were trying to undermine our democracy, not have their voice heard.

If you are offended by the way I characterized your thought process, I apologize. Now, show one iota of comprehension that the two groups are not equally bad.
 

dcsports

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Well, it is dumb to think intentions don't matter. It's a copout to say that calling your idea dumb means I lose the debate. Considered intentions are one of the variables when one makes moral judgements. Someone who steals to eat is not as bad as someone who steals for profit. Someone who kills in self defense is not as bad as someone who kills for fun. You see? You should. The justice system and every major religion sees the difference.

The BLM and antfa rioters have a legitimate beef, if not a legitimate way of complaining. The fascist hoard had neither. The election wasn't stolen but the liberties of black people sure as **** have been. So, arguably, one side is more justified than the other in engaging in violence.

The idea that all violence is equal is false. The fascists were trying to undermine our democracy, not have their voice heard.

If you are offended by the way I characterized your thought process, I apologize. Now, show one iota of comprehension that the two groups are not equally bad.
No, because you are using personal attacks and other deflection, rather that reason/facts, you lost the debate.

You are trying very hard to push some type of robin hood notion to what's going on, and it's silly. We live in a civil society, and lapsing into vandalism, looting, burning, rioting, etc. isn't acceptable no matter how righteous the cause.

I'd also note that you aren't characterizing either group appropriately. There are good people concerned about disparities in treatment based on race, and good people concerned about issues with the election. Both groups should be heard and considered. There are also bad people in both cases, and those people should receive a clear message that lawlessness isn't the answer.
 
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