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The reason I respect Republicans

tecoyah

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This man is my freakin hero....I would easily vote him in as President in 2008



Speaking from the Senate floor, McCain said, "If necessary - and I sincerely hope it is not - I and the co-sponsors of this amendment will seek to add it to every piece of important legislation voted on in the Senate until the will of a substantial bipartisan majority in both houses of Congress prevails. Let no one doubt our determination."



http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1105mccain-torture05.html
 

scottyz

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The major proponent for this pro-torture stuff is a Republican administration....:confused:
 

Old and wise

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I would vote for McCain in a heartbeat, no matter what party label he ran under.:smile:
 

RightinNYC

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scottyz said:
The major proponent for this pro-torture stuff is a Republican administration....:confused:
Does Bush speak for all republicans? nope.
 

scottyz

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RightatNYU said:
Does Bush speak for all republicans? nope.
Yet the vast majority if people who call themselves Republicans voted for Bush to represent them...
 

RightinNYC

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scottyz said:
Yet the vast majority if people who call themselves Republicans voted for Bush to represent them...
Vast majority? Uh, no. Bush barely got the votes he needed versus McCain in the 2000 primary, and that's from primary voters who are not representative of the party as a whole.

And the point's moot because Bush ran as a conservative, which he's proved he's not. A lot of reps who supported him in 2000 don't any longer.
 

scottyz

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RightatNYU said:
Vast majority? Uh, no. Bush barely got the votes he needed versus McCain in the 2000 primary, and that's from primary voters who are not representative of the party as a whole.

And the point's moot because Bush ran as a conservative, which he's proved he's not. A lot of reps who supported him in 2000 don't any longer.
Bush got the majority of Republican votes in 2000 and 2004. Most of the Republicans here seem to claim his low poll numbers are liberal media fabrications, propaganda or misinformation... The Republican party and Republican groups certainly haven't made any attempts to seperate themselves from Bush.
 

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scottyz said:
Bush got the majority of Republican votes in 2000 and 2004.
So? Saying that he is better than Gore and Kerry means that he is the official mouthpiece for all members of the party?

Most of the Republicans here seem to claim his low poll numbers are liberal media fabrications, propaganda or misinformation... The Republican party and Republican groups certainly haven't made any attempts to seperate themselves from Bush.
His low poll numbers don't matter. Right now, his lowest approval rating average is 39%, which is better than EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT since 1963. He's not doing so bad.
 

scottyz

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RightatNYU said:
So? Saying that he is better than Gore and Kerry means that he is the official mouthpiece for all members of the party?
He is the official mouth piece for the Republican party.


His low poll numbers don't matter. Right now, his lowest approval rating average is 39%, which is better than EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT since 1963. He's not doing so bad.
Gotta source for this claim? I've seen his approval rating go lower than 39%.
 
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RightinNYC

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scottyz said:
He is the official mouth piece for the Republican party.
No, he's not. He was the presidential candidate. It doesn't mean you can paint the entire party with that brush. Was John Kerry the official mouth piece for the democratic party? What about Gore? Dukakis?

Gotta source for this claim? I've seen his approval rating go lower than 39%
.


Individual polls are affected by poller bias and margins of error. The best method for approximating poll results is to take a comprehensive average.

Bush's average right now, the lowest of his presidency, is 38.8%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls.html
 

scottyz

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RightatNYU said:
No, he's not. He was the presidential candidate. It doesn't mean you can paint the entire party with that brush. Was John Kerry the official mouth piece for the democratic party? What about Gore? Dukakis?
He is the mouth piece for the party AND the country. There certainly isn't much dissent in the Republican party about that. What he does can reflect negatively or positively on the entire party.

John Kerry, Gore, Dukakis all represented the face of the Dem. party in those elections.

his lowest approval rating average is 39%,which is better than EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT since 1963. He's not doing so bad.
I'm was interested in a source for this.

McCain isn't battling dems over this, he is battling a Republican admin. that claims to have a "mandate".
 

RightinNYC

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scottyz said:
He is the mouth piece for the party AND the country. There certainly isn't much dissent in the Republican party about that. What he does can reflect negatively or positively on the entire party.

John Kerry, Gore, Dukakis all represented the face of the Dem. party in those elections.
It still does nothing to paint all republicans with the same brush. There IS a large contingent of republicans who are angry about the way bush is handling things.

I'm was interested in a source for this.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-17-bushapproval_x.htm

Every president since 1963 has had approval ratings at one time or another that were lower than Bush's current rating. Those ratings include Lyndon Johnson's 35%, Richard Nixon's 24%, Gerald Ford's 37%, Jimmy Carter's 28%, Ronald Reagan's 35%, the elder George Bush's 29% and Bill Clinton's 37%.
By this measure, Bush is doing the best out of any president in the past 40 years.

McCain isn't battling dems over this, he is battling a Republican admin. that claims to have a "mandate".
I know. I'm agreeing with you, for the most part.
 

scottyz

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RightatNYU said:
It still does nothing to paint all republicans with the same brush. There IS a large contingent of republicans who are angry about the way bush is handling things.
Why aren't we hearing from them?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-17-bushapproval_x.htm



By this measure, Bush is doing the best out of any president in the past 40 years.
I've seen his approval ratings listed in the 35%-37% range which would put him on par with 4 of the presidents listed. Even 39% is still very low for a sitting war president. Unlike those other guys, Bush still has 3 years to bring his ratings down further.
 

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scottyz said:
Why aren't we hearing from them?
Short answer: Because you're not listening. It's an internal battle, between republicans. People who don't pay close attention to republican columnists, interest groups, politicians, and policy proposals don't see it.

Remember how quickly Harriet Miers tanked? That wasn't because of the democrats, that was because of the Republicans who hated her.

There's a divide in the republican party now, between the big government, religiously motivated, throw money at the problem Republicans, and the smaller government, religious freedom, neo-con, anti-pork Conservatives.
 

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scottyz said:
The major proponent for this pro-torture stuff is a Republican administration....:confused:
And the major proponent for anti-torture stuff came from a republican. I generally vote republican myself, mainly, because it seems that republicans in general possess better leadership qualities. I certainly do not agree with Bush on several issues, but it seemed that Kerry was more dangerous than Bush.
 

shuamort

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...back to the topic of this thread....


I'm curious why if this idea to stop torture has such wide-spread support in both houses, why do they need to attach a rider to all bills to get it passed? Why can't they just send it through on its own?


(Mind you, my tail's a-waggin' to the fact that McCain is threatening to this wonderful thing though).
 
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Does anyone know where to get a copy of the Bill until I read it in its entirety I can't jump to any conclusions, however, it seems to me that it's what this bill considers torture is the issue here not whether we should condone torture. I totally support the right to use coercive means, such as, mock executions, use of Sodium pentothaul, sleep deprivation, and submersion to get the information necessary if it helps save American lives now I don't support electro, shock hanging people up on meet hooks, and stuff like that but you can't win a war by giving the enemy flowers either, sometimes you have to be brutal in your methods it's a harsh reality but this is the burden you must bare to win wars we've given them the carrot time for the stick there's got to be an iron fist behind the velvet glove.
 
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tecoyah

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Part of the reason McCain had to step up:



Bush will veto anti-torture law after Senate revolt
By Francis Harris in Washington
(Filed: 07/10/2005)

The Bush administration pledged yesterday to veto legislation banning the torture of prisoners by US troops after an overwhelming and almost unprecedented revolt by loyalist congressmen.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...s207.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/07/ixworld.html
 
H

hipsterdufus

I think McCain is president in 08 if he gets past the primaries. I'm hard-pressed to think of a Dem who could beat him. His biggest baggage is his age (72 in 08) and his health.

He has the respect of many Dems and was a potential running mate for Kerry in 04.

Did anyone see the SNL parody of McCain stumping for Bush? It was priceless. He would say a few supportive words about W, then go into his trailer and vomit. It ended with a take-off of the opening scene in Apocalypse now, where Martin Sheen is drunk and bloodied. I was on the floor. :rofl

Politics makes strange bedfellows. I think I would have kicked Rove and Bush in the teeth for insinuating that I fathered a black child out of wedlock.
 
H

hipsterdufus

tecoyah said:
Part of the reason McCain had to step up:



Bush will veto anti-torture law after Senate revolt
By Francis Harris in Washington
(Filed: 07/10/2005)

The Bush administration pledged yesterday to veto legislation banning the torture of prisoners by US troops after an overwhelming and almost unprecedented revolt by loyalist congressmen.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...s207.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/10/07/ixworld.html
I think McCain will win this fight and Bush will lose even more "capital"
 

shuamort

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Here are pictures of prisoner torture in Abu Gharab prison in case someone is going to say it's not going on....

...like President Bush is saying:
"We do not torture," Mr Bush told reporters during a visit to Panama.

The Senate has passed legislation banning torture, but the Bush administration is seeking an exemption for the CIA spy agency.

"We do not torture and therefore we're working with Congress to make sure that as we go forward, we make it more possible to do our job," Mr Bush said.
Umm, if "we do not torture", then there really is no need for the CIA to have an exemption. Of course, if "we do not torture", then there really shouldn't be pictures either or Gonzales' torture memos.
 

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hipsterdufus said:
I think McCain will win this fight and Bush will lose even more "capital"
I agree...Bush is crazy if he vetoes this legislation.

How can they say the U.S. doesn't torture, but we'd like an exemption, just in case we need to torture someone?

I'm sure they...meaning the CIA, Secret Service..etc...could find some way of torturing a suspect if they wanted to, and we would never know about it...so why fight legislation that is just gonna hurt Bush even more?

Bush needs to clean house and get some new advisors...sheesh!
 

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shuamort said:
Umm, if "we do not torture", then there really is no need for the CIA to have an exemption. Of course, if "we do not torture", then there really shouldn't be pictures either or Gonzales' torture memos.
That's why it doesn't make any sense. If do not torture than why do we need to be able to torture? It's like Saddam saying he built his torture rooms just for show, but not to use. I suppose even if he doesn't get his way the U.S. will still be sending prisoners to countries where they can be legally tortured.
 

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George_Washington said:
That seems like an ok law in my book. But at the same time I will say that it seems like other countries don't care as much if our soldiers get tortured.
If our official policy is to torture others we can hardly complain about it.
 
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