• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The real reason the anti gun crowd has a problem with armed self defense with a gun!

Universal background checks don’t work without a federal registry. They are opposed to that because then the gubment will know where the guns are.

They say:

  • “Universal” background checks on private party firearm transactions not only impose heavy regulatory burdens on federally licensed retailers, but they would also require a national gun registry, which is unlawful, have no effect on criminals, pose a confiscation risk for law-abiding gun owners and open retailers up to unprecedented liability exposure.
But they’re not paranoid or afraid the government will grab their guns. They’re just being prepared in case😃

I've been supporting Universal Background Checks for both guns and motor vehicles for some time now.
 
More cars, planes, cruise ships, trains and travel = more pollution, climate change, life changing events and Deaths from accidents. And guys you know you can blame all your fears, doubts, lost hope and future on Putin Nukes ! All are above Gun problems in the usa. Constant bitching abut firearms is really retarded !
 
I am not a fan of Bernie and have never voted for him, but if Bernie got everything he wanted, the United States would be more like Denmark or Finland, so are you saying that those are communist countries?

Communism is abolition of private property. You don't own anything under communism. It's a very specific ideology.
Haven't studied Denmark or Finland. Do know Bernie Sanders though. He honeymooned in Russia. He is a self proclaimed socialist. He runs as a Democrat. His influence is so strong in the party that our current president signed a pact with him an agreement to push his agenda.

So the question I was responding to was answered........Democrats are in fact socialists. Even if some of you individual democrats aren't.

Socialists always seek to control the private ownership of guns. Just as they are here now.
 
I'm not criticizing your source. I'm noting it doesn't support your position, if you even have one you're prepared to support.

What did that review conclude? Are you going to argue by something other than insinuation accompanied with standing back and saying, "Read this"?
The review concluded what I stated, that Rucker's claim about backgrounds checks "not doing anything" was unsupportable. Whatever else you wanted to read into that is on you.
poppopfox said:
Cite? "Don't do anything" is quite the unsupportable claim.
 
I’m not trying to educate you. One has to be at a certain level to start with for that to happen. I’m picky. I like Sanders. He’s liberal enough in his rhetoric, but his follow through might be a little weak. The Clintons had a hell of a machine behind her, so dunno what the pressure was like.

Anyway, read some books about politics and we will talk later, k?
So do you take back the statement that Democrats are not socialists?

Educate me? You didn't know your own candidate signed a pact with a socialist. Maybe stop reading books and spend some time studying your candidates before voting them into office. Maybe understanding your own party would help you understand why your opponents (like us) resist certain things like gun control and illegal immigration. History tells us what socialists seek to do......every single time they take power. Naw the one who needs education is you my friend. Talk to any Venezuelan. Look at what happened there.

While it would be much harder to successfully do that here......because of our constitution........your party keeps pecking away getting justices to legislate from the bench and keep us moving toward socialism. I would ask you to wake up before it's too late but I feel that you likely want it. You give me the vibe that you, like many liberals, have fallen for the false beauty of socialism. It's never worked but it's because it's never been done right lol. You will do it right.....right?
 
Relax cowboy, this isn’t that kind of gunfight. May have started out that way, but it’s turned into a discussion.
Sorry.......areas run and controlled by democrats are almost always associated with massive violent crime and poverty. These areas show very weak punishment of criminals committing crime now.


There I cleaned it up for you........will you directly respond to the claim now? Will you answer? Are democrat run areas as described or not? And why?
 
If he’s going to talk about liberals he should know what they are. Then maybe leftists, and socialists and conservatives. There seems to be a strange “Americancentric version” he’s getting somewhere. You too in rhetoric, but I have a feeling you know the definitions.
So because I just proved that you democrats are socialists and communists, somehow I don't know the definitions? I simply used the fact that your chosen elected officials have either said they are socialist, they have made pacts with socialists, or they have pushed socialist agenda items. If they quack and walk like a duck.....

Bernie also has communists desires as do many in the party. He spent his honeymoon in russia and is a big fan. Socialism is the main deal however.
 
"History is full of evil people!
Samurai
Warlords
Japanese soldiers
A Mexican drug cartel member
the hands of evil.
millions die"
"It is us vs them. THEY refuse to punish to the max violent criminals and then THEY seek to take our guns. THEY are the reason over 70 percent of violent crime IS being committed by recidivists! THEY cause the gun crime issue then blame us and our guns and use that crime they allowed to happen to seek gun bans."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which comes first: an evil world or the need to justify one's arsenal.
Evil is here now and has been here since before my birth so there is not need to justify anything.

Thanks for addressing the meat of the quote. It is hard to refute facts so I understand. All those THEY's would make most people wonder just what is the true intent behind the gun banners.
 
One of my favorite points. Another is that the tactics used by mass shooters wouldn't actually be survivable on a battlefield where all of your intended victims has guns, too.
Which is why active shooters seem to seek gun free zones.

Let them try it at my hunt camp during hunting season or at a rifle shooting competition lol.
 
Seeing pics of the Ukrainian gov't handing out assault weapons to the citizenry must have caused Gun Controlists to go bugshit!
What it did is put them in a political pickle. They support Ukraine and love the people fighting an enemy. They liked government arming the resistance. They just seemed to forget that we are this countries resistance lol. This makes hypocrites of them when they seek our disarmament.
 
Yes, there is true evil in humans and evil came first before firearms. But evil isn't the norm. Were it the normal behavior of humans we would not have evolved into a species with the atributes that make getting along possible: self awareness, abstract thinking, ability to collaborate and solve complex problems and the ability to question our existance that we call philosophy.

In the US violent crime has been going down. The preception of gun owners, however is that America is becoming more and more dangerous all the time, making it easier to justify buying black guns. One pretends one is surrounded by evil i better than admitting one is just part of a get tough, flag loving, capitalistic, American culture.
Evil is not the norm. However when it shows up all those innocent good humans become helpless victims because they were to stupid, to good perhaps, to understand that evil exists and will be armed. Evil doesn't care like good people do. Frankly I am good people. And there ain't a damned thing wrong with being armed to the teeth. It is absolutely possible to be both. I am tough, flag loving, capitalistic, and a very good person. People think I'm religious I'm so good. I'm good now and will be good after defending myself and family from evil if it ever became necessary.



There was a Rambo movie that had good people go to try and help people being persecuted in a third world country. In one scene Rambo is forced to kill several badguys on a boat who were about to do evil to those good people. After the shooting one of the good people scream why did you do that we don't believe in killing. Rambo said then we all would be dead and the women raped. By the movies end some of the good people had to fight the evil guys to save themselves. Doing this doesn't magically change them into bad people.

That's all we wish to do. Keep ourselves safe from evil. We are good people!
 
Thankfully, nobody’s got you in charge of anything important. I’ll send you a nerf football for Christmas, maybe you can keep from hurting yourself.
You had better be thankful for that lol. Your liberal nirvana would be over.

I play with deadly weapons everyday of my life. I play shooting games that require running, turning, fast drawing, and rapidly shooting guns. Have yet to hurt myself. So keep the nerve ball for yourself. You fear filled gun grabbers seem less skilled.
 
There is no reliable evidence to back your claim, and current studies contradict it.
Effects of Concealed-Carry Laws on Violent Crime

Which bs figures does the gun industry and its lobbying arm, the NRA, use to maximize profits? If not fear then what is driving current gun sales? Can't be hunters, their numbers have been dropping for several decades. Has competitive shooting become extremely popular? Not in this part of the country. What else could it be if not fear for personal safety?

You've already admitted to being afraid, afraid a loved one would be hurt and you wouldn't be able to prevent it if you were unarmed.

"The REAL problem", straight out of the NRA's propaganda campaign book. ;)
Almost everyone I know who carries, including my own family, has prevented crime with a gun. The stories I hear at the gun counter even more. So with crime already trending down till prior to covid it's easy to recognize concealed carriers play a role.

Pointing out you hypocrisy about fear. The NRA telling real stories of self defense vs you adding suicide to figures designed to fool folks into thinking guns are more of a danger to induce fear. Lol.

You got me. I fear failing my family. Never mind the point being made. Typical liberal horse crap.
 
Evidence that shall-issue concealed-carry laws may increase violent crime is limited. Evidence for the effect of shall-issue laws on total homicides, firearm homicides, robberies, assaults, and rapes is inconclusive.
Inconclusive only because one known factor cannot be measured!!!!! The amount of DGU's that go unreported! I personally have used a firearm multiple times to prevent crime. My family has aswell. My friends also. Many of my customers have. Thousands possibly millions every year.

Just a few I remember

#1 used a shotgun to thwart car burglars during a hurricane
#2 used a pistol to help hold car burglars for police. This one was reported but no mention of the guns was in the report we read.
#3 used an evil ar to run off multiple burglary attempts of my business during the Floyd riots.
#4 drew on a man who was about to attack me and had already thrown a handful of candy at me. All for offering to low a price for his guns. He became extremely violent when I told him he was stupid for not leaving after police were called. Big man and very angry.
#5 my sons attempted robbery.
#6 my wife stopped the man from beating on her in a road rage incident.
#7 my uncle shot a man trying to break down his front door. Never called police.
#8 my cousin drew on a bum who was coming at his dog with a pipe.

Have more if needed.

Crime prevented but not reported!
 
Evil is not the norm. However when it shows up all those innocent good humans become helpless victims because they were to stupid, to good perhaps, to understand that evil exists and will be armed. Evil doesn't care like good people do. Frankly I am good people. And there ain't a damned thing wrong with being armed to the teeth. It is absolutely possible to be both. I am tough, flag loving, capitalistic, and a very good person. People think I'm religious I'm so good. I'm good now and will be good after defending myself and family from evil if it ever became necessary.
Got carried away with the self-adulation today? ;)

Evil is non-existent, human beings project their own subjective disapproval onto events and actions, and most all humans prefer to label themselves "Good," even the ones who enable violence.
There was a Rambo movie that had good people go to try and help people being persecuted in a third world country. In one scene Rambo is forced to kill several badguys on a boat who were about to do evil to those good people. After the shooting one of the good people scream why did you do that we don't believe in killing. Rambo said then we all would be dead and the women raped. By the movies end some of the good people had to fight the evil guys to save themselves. Doing this doesn't magically change them into bad people.
A Rambo movie is evidence of what?
That's all we wish to do. Keep ourselves safe from evil. We are good people!
There are no good guys, there are no bad guys, enjoy my friend. :)

 
Almost everyone I know who carries, including my own family, has prevented crime with a gun. The stories I hear at the gun counter even more. So with crime already trending down till prior to covid it's easy to recognize concealed carriers play a role.
Stories and hearsay, flesh your argument out with some actual research and it might make those stories more believable.
Pointing out you hypocrisy about fear. The NRA telling real stories of self defense vs you adding suicide to figures designed to fool folks into thinking guns are more of a danger to induce fear. Lol.
I added no figures, that data came from the researchers, most of them in the medical and public health disciplines. They don't do the research to "fool folks into thinking," they do it to look for ways to address the gun violence issue from a medical perspective. Feel free to prove otherwise, while still sounding rational.
Those PR "stories" the NRA puts out are just that, stories.
You got me. I fear failing my family. Never mind the point being made. Typical liberal horse crap.
Inductive feels? How does liberal horse crap differ from NRA-type horse crap? :unsure:
 
The Population of Denmark and Sweeden are 16,000,000. Mostly like New York. No one in N.Y. obeys the laws.

On a personal note, showed a firearm to perp, he didn't beat on the smaller older other person. Never pointed it at him, just showed it to him. So one small older person isn't in the hospital. Didn't have to deal with having the Perp arrested. Never heard of the perp getting into trouble either.
 
Last edited:
been reading the thread… why would anyone want to discount suicides in gun death totals? Turtledude said earlier that we have a lot of gun suicides in America because we have a lot of depressed and crazy people or something like that. Why? Why would “the greatest country in the history…” have so much unhappiness?
Don't know why there is so much unhappiness? I suspect it's born from the move away from Christianity into a selfish me me me society. Today there is massive envy and a general lack of work ethic which might contribute aswell. Pure speculation on my part.

As it relates to guns it really doesn't matter. So people use them for suicide. Japan has very high suicide and few guns suggesting that guns don't cause suicide.

Mental health is complicated. When someone commits suicide its tragic. Be it with a gun or a handful of pills. My prescription doesn't make my home more dangerous because people kill themselves with the same mess. The pills in someone elses house dont put me in any danger. That's the point. That's why suicide should not be included.
 
Don't know why there is so much unhappiness? I suspect it's born from the move away from Christianity into a selfish me me me society. Today there is massive envy and a general lack of work ethic which might contribute aswell. Pure speculation on my part.

As it relates to guns it really doesn't matter. So people use them for suicide. Japan has very high suicide and few guns suggesting that guns don't cause suicide.

Mental health is complicated. When someone commits suicide its tragic. Be it with a gun or a handful of pills. My prescription doesn't make my home more dangerous because people kill themselves with the same mess. The pills in someone elses house dont put me in any danger. That's the point. That's why suicide should not be included.

I understand mental health and suicide are more complicated than can sometimes be expressed in a few words. Most things are.
I also realize we can’t assume, that without guns, nobody who did chose a gun to kill themselves wouldn’t have found another way, but we also can’t assume the opposite, that everyone who used a gun wouldn’t have cooled down and decided against killing themselves at all. Nobody really knows what that number is.

I would say: some people who attempt suicide would be alive if there were no firearm easily available. Same goes with domestic violence, local or family confrontations/disagreements, and most “crimes of passion.”

Intentional homicides via firearm are made easier and more effective in a gun culture. Accidents will happen, because accidents happen with everything. A buddy of mine crushed himself with his truck because he jumped out and forgot to put it in park and it squeezed him between the truck and a wall.

As for your prescriptions, locking those in a safe place doesn’t effect their intended use like it does with firearms. If you lock your guns in a safe, they’re effectiveness goes down considerably in an emergency. If you don’t lock them in a safe, kids or others who shouldn’t have them get access.

I’ve thought a lot about better safety controls, but many of those run counter to other tenets of the pro gun movement. Things like a federal list to facilitate universal background checks, tech controls that would only let the owner fire the gun, or strict limits on what kind of guns we could own and where.

I see these things as possible solutions. Gun proponents see them as a limit on their freedom. What’s true for sure is that the mass shootings are “bad optics” in the pro gun cause. In post analysis we can all see how many of them could have been stopped if the guns simply weren’t available, or were too expensive from the beginning.

People in shooting sports would not lose their ability to play those sports. I understand how fun and rewarding any sport or passion can be, and people should be able to do those things in that context, in a free country.

What they shouldn’t be able to do, IMO, is to ignore the safety measures surrounding a potentially dangerous activity when they come into contact with, or their lives or actions overlap with others.

We outlaw some recreational drugs because their safe use cannot be properly monitored or controlled if necessary by authorities, and the numbers of problems associated are noticeable in our society. I see the same issue with guns.
 

↑↑ The reason the general public is a sick place. and the cruelty that went on in Mental hospitals + Lobotomies. The top floors of many of our regional hospitals are packed with mentals who cannot be drugged into semi normal lives.
 
Last edited:
It should be grounds for arresting them for a felony. Why do the feds average less the 0.1% of an arrest rate for that crime?

OK, I can see that

But you support the need for background checks...unlike some posters who think they're either worthless or simply exist to harass lawful gun owners ?
 
I’ve thought a lot about better safety controls, but many of those run counter to other tenets of the pro gun movement. Things like a federal list to facilitate universal background checks
There are many reasons to oppose registration; one of which is the propensity of government to use those lists for confiscation. Another problem is that criminals can't even be arrested for failing to register a gun.

Why should any transfer between non-prohibited persons be a crime?

, tech controls that would only let the owner fire the gun
Gun owners don't want these.


, or strict limits on what kind of guns we could own and where.
Unconstitutional.
We outlaw some recreational drugs because their safe use cannot be properly monitored or controlled if necessary by authorities, and the numbers of problems associated are noticeable in our society. I see the same issue with guns.
No Constitutional right to recreational drugs.
 
Didn't read through document, didn't really expect you to, it was 40 pages of in depth analysis, something your responses lack, depth that is. Just superficial feels from you. "The left," "You have the nerve," "lol," "almost never used," "manipulation of stats," (btw, gun murder stats don't include suicide stats, but it does show your attempt at manipulation).

The NRA is doing their job, that's why they are funded by the manufacturers, and I'll be your friend but not your buddy. Comrade is a term of respect we use in the VFW for fellow soldiers who served in war wearing this country's uniform, perhaps you didn't know that.
Gun manufacturers hand out NRA memberships with the purchase of their products.


How did you come to that conclusion, I've never mentioned them?

Honest dialogue anyone? But if you must claim hypocrisy, get the spelling right my friend. ;)
You aren't a friend or a buddy I'm just trying to play nice. You making an issue of it.....expected. I used the term comrade because the soviets use it alot and I believe you to be a socialist.

Also expected from you.........and many other liberals desperate to have others believe they are intelligent........is the spelling nazi deal. You got me lol. Look everyone daddyo misspelled a word therefore he is an idiot and I am a genius for catching it. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoy discombobulating your posts. Litterally with very little effort lol. Its like debating Joe Biben right now easy.
 
Back
Top Bottom