The real reason the anti gun crowd has a problem with armed self defense with a gun!

[Daddyo]

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But we only want to talk abought homicides, right?

Yes because someone killing themselves doesn't put anyone in danger but themselves. Also those using guns to commit suicide will simply find another way. Just look at Japan.

 

[Daddyo]

A major contributing factor in lower homocide rates is the internet. Many people who would have ended up a violent criminal, or end up in places where violence is more prevalent have moved to safer internet crimes. There are also cameras everywhere. Everyone has one in their pocket.

But homicides aren’t the only problem. You can’t dismiss suicides and accidents. If you lock your gun in a safe so your kids (or someone else’s) can’t get to them then they are almost useless if you wake up to a murderer standing over your bed. Which by the way, if you are worried about murderers coming to get you, then you’re afraid of something so rare it doesn’t justify guns for personal protection. It’s fighting fire with fire which is always an escalation.

You can pick apart each specific item if you want. It’s easy. What you can’t do is explain why we have way more gun death than any other first world country. The second amendment was written so that people could form a militia to fight tyranny in a time when that was possible. Had pro gun people kept it a states rights thing, where say the city of Los Angeles could ban weapons if a majority of their population wanted it, it probably wouldn’t be a huge issue now.

More rare than the home owner being murdered in his own home is MY gun killing anyone that is not actively trying to kill me.

You have, multiple times now, looked at stats to determine if I should carry or not. Why? Why are you so worried about me? You love stats right?Those same stats will tell you that we are not a problem. So why?

Do we scare you? Are you upset because we can fight back but you can't.......possibly causing that jealousy I mentioned earlier?

Stats prove you have nothing to fear from us. You claim you aren't scared of us. You also claim you are not envious of us. So why?

 

[Daddyo]

Hmm-a picture of one of your fellow travelers?

No his response when he's had his butt handed to him and can't answer.

 

[Daddyo]

Why so many criminals and depressed people? And that there is, what makes you think it’s a good idea to make guns as readily available as we do?

We don't make guns readily available to those people. It's illegal for either group to legally purchase a gun.

Part of the reason there are so many criminals on the street is because of YOU and YOUR comrades marshmallow soft punishment of them. It's why we have 70 plus percent OF VIOLENT crime being committed by recidivists. You want more laws lol but you don't enforce existing...........thats why you can't have them.

 

[Rich2018]

Yes because someone killing themselves doesn't put anyone in danger but themselves. Also those using guns to commit suicide will simply find another way. Just look at Japan.

BS !!!

Japan's higher suicide rate is because more people there have suicidal thoughts

If people in the USA had the same lack of access to guns as people in Japan, less people would attempt suicide
Moreover, of those that did attempt suicide would survive, as guns are by far the most successful method of suicide

Conversely, if Japanese people had the same access to guns and people in the USA, then EVEN more people would attempt suicide
And EVEN more people would die in a suicide attempt.

 

[poppopfox]

Fear, disinformation, and propaganda. The left has made a living pushing them. You have the nerve to criticize the NRA lol. What a joke. From fear of "assault" weapons, so named because assault sounds bad (the propaganda) and which are almost never used by the badguys ( irratuonal fear). To the manipulation of gun murder stat counts that include suicide.

The NRA is doing their job buddy. They get members to join by fighting you and your comrades at the ballot box. I pay my dues and expect them to fight for me. They understand that the more gun owners the more potential NRA members. Every smart business seeks more customers. Those businesses that can, support/donate to politicians in hopes of getting support when needed. You don't seem to have a problem with Amazon or Disney paying to play but the NRA is evil for doing the same lol. Hypocricy anyone?

Didn't read through document, didn't really expect you to, it was 40 pages of in depth analysis, something your responses lack, depth that is. Just superficial feels from you. "The left," "You have the nerve," "lol," "almost never used," "manipulation of stats," (btw, gun murder stats don't include suicide stats, but it does show your attempt at manipulation).

The NRA is doing their job, that's why they are funded by the manufacturers, and I'll be your friend but not your buddy. Comrade is a term of respect we use in the VFW for fellow soldiers who served in war wearing this country's uniform, perhaps you didn't know that.
Gun manufacturers hand out NRA memberships with the purchase of their products.

"You don't seem to have a problem with Amazon or Disney paying to play..."

How did you come to that conclusion, I've never mentioned them?

Honest dialogue anyone? But if you must claim hypocrisy, get the spelling right my friend.

 

[poppopfox]

Yes because someone killing themselves doesn't put anyone in danger but themselves. Also those using guns to commit suicide will simply find another way. Just look at Japan.

Prove it. Where are the studies? Where are your feels about this coming from?

 

[brianpatrick]

More rare than the home owner being murdered in his own home is MY gun killing anyone that is not actively trying to kill me.

You have, multiple times now, looked at stats to determine if I should carry or not. Why? Why are you so worried about me? You love stats right?Those same stats will tell you that we are not a problem. So why?

Do we scare you? Are you upset because we can fight back but you can't.......possibly causing that jealousy I mentioned earlier?

Stats prove you have nothing to fear from us. You claim you aren't scared of us. You also claim you are not envious of us. So why?

Desperate, sad, depressed, crazy, stupid, and biologically impaired people are a fact of society. The bigger the civilization the more there are. Some of those people are born that way, and it’s pretty obvious which of those shouldn’t have guns. The rest become that way throughout their lives. Some go “in and out.” Most of them you can’t tell by just looking or talking to them. Sure sometimes you can, but you can’t just assume every depressed person is going to shoot themselves.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

GUNS ARE NOT THE “GREAT EQUALIZER” FOR WOMEN Myriad studies show that the NRA and its allies grossly misrepresent the actual dangers women face. It is people women know, not strangers, who pose the greatest threat. Domestic abuse is five times more likely to turn deadly if firearms are present in a home. A case-control study comparing women killed by an intimate partner to women who had been battered but not killed revealed that more than half of the homicide victims lived with a firearm in the home, while that was true for only 16 percent of women who were abused but survived. Evan DeFilippis, Devin Hughes 2016

Perhaps that erroneous "Rape Culture" on college campuses. One in five women will be sexually assaulted in college campuses.

Perhaps arming them will protect them on campus.../s.

 

[P_T]

Lets see, Japan ? Their history and way of life is use a knife when dishonorable / shamed. Cut off a finger too !
Lets see, Great Britian ? Use a knife when robbing killing. Its always been that way.
Lets see, France ? escape out the fire escape!
Lets see Russia? Kill em before they can kill him.
Lets see Mexico ? Just gut em !
Lets see NY City ? Put em in a cement barrel and down the Hudson they go.
Lets see Chicago ? Cement overshoes.
ETC> Thats past and present history recorded events ! So do you really pay the Mafia for Protection still !

Lets see ? Government is Really just organized crime ? U know the Ukraine young mothers are some of the most beautiful mothers in the world. Ask them what they need to defend their families now ?

 

[poppopfox]

You have, multiple times now, looked at stats to determine if I should carry or not. Why? Why are you so worried about me? You love stats right?Those same stats will tell you that we are not a problem. So why?

Why would you think he's worried about you? This is a discussion about guns and the dangers they pose to our society, not you as a single gun owner/seller.

Do we scare you? Are you upset because we can fight back but you can't.......possibly causing that jealousy I mentioned earlier?
Stats prove you have nothing to fear from us. You claim you aren't scared of us. You also claim you are not envious of us. So why?

"when he's had his butt handed to him and can't answer." Go with the sealioning! Did I get it right that time RF?

Nothing to fear? Millions of Angry, Armed Americans
Where do you stand, which side would you support?

 

[poppopfox]

Perhaps that erroneous "Rape Culture" on college campuses. One in five women will be sexually assaulted in college campuses.

Perhaps arming them will protect them on campus.../s.

Or perhaps better campus security. I attended and live within two block of a university. It's well lit with ample security patrols 24/7. In the 40 years I've been here there has never been a reportable rape case, not saying it couldn't have happened. It's also a Catholic themed school and the gun idea would never float.

 

[weaver2]

the NRA has no more of a duty to address violence caused by criminals than the NAACP does to address violence caused by people who happen to be black. you are lying about the NRA and people like you are never going to be able to disarm us.

The NRA does have a duty to be honest, but much of what they print in their articles, posters, speeches, advertising and editorials is not honest or sensible. There have been too many studies on gun ownership, gun violence, and NRA's promotion of an aggressive gun culture for anyone to deny the NRA's part in generating a hostile environment.
https://library.ship.edu/c.php?g=21651&p=126894

You can try to deny the results of all these studies, books, research, statistics but there are just too much material done by reputable research firms like Pew to make a denial stick. Nobody is trying to disarm you or anyone else. The long history of gun ownership in the US is simply too strong for that to happen. No matter how many nut job you quote, it will not happen.

However, according to most studies 85% of Republicans and 90% of Democrats want to restrict weapons in the hands of the mentally unstable. 72% of Republicans and 92 % of Democrats want background checks for gun shows and private sales. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/

The NRA is foremost in lobbying against any legislation that would restrict guns sales to the unstable mass shooters that drive most of the anti-gun talk. The only way these restrictions on the mentally unstable will happen is if responsible NRA members insist on it. If the laws come from the Democrats they will be harsher, more invasive and include more gun owners.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

Or perhaps better campus security. I attended and live within two block of a university. It's well lit with ample security patrols 24/7. In the 40 years I've been here there has never been a reportable rape case, not saying it couldn't have happened. It's also a Catholic themed school and the gun idea would never float.

If you noticed I said erroneous, meaning a false narritive touted by people like Obama and the far left. Fine, in that case allow and advertize ccw on college campuses.

 

[Daddyo]

I don’t think we would. There are are many indirect costs associated with an armed society. More costs if that society practices aggressive capitalism like we do.

How would me, a left winger, benefit from attacking your freedom, and why would I think that doing so would not be more likely to result in you being more likely to vote (against me)? You must have taken one political science class in your college days at least. That just doesn’t make sense.

Why? You are a socialist and you know it won't work if people reserve the right to fight back. As a left winger your agenda trumps all else. We will be more likely to vote against you. Doesn't matter.

Killing energy independence was more likely to make Brandon a 1 term president but he still did it. AL Gore moved left with guns knowing it would hurt him at the ballot box. He admits it cost him the election. So the why is meaningless as its done all the time. And it doesn't make sense.

It also doesn't make sense to ask or demand more laws when you refuse to enforce existing laws to the fullest. Yet here we are.

 

[P_T]

The higher concentration of populations the higher the amount of People off their mind control Meds or on Illegal mind control meds. The higher the populations the higher the amount of Firearm crimes/ knife crimes / Auto crimes / Break-ins mostly with no one home / The perps case the blocks for weeks, Cyber crimes etc.
Freshmen Girls going to Frat parties / their tru 1st time away from the parents living. Mostly awareness is a great way to know if ya need personal protection devices. The higher the Concentration of People the more restrictive the Society becomes.
The more politicians the more restrictive the Society is. Judges read the Law and pass rulings if they are illegal / anti Constitutional and the laws already stricken by other judges.
Most of the screwballs die before 40 years of age or are locked up 15-20.

 

[Daddyo]

Translation - the NRA is my cult and savior.

Translation.....you have no rebuttal yet again. You have been bested once again!

I donate to the red cross and they get help to those in need. They are able to do this more effectively rhan me alone because of their experience and numbers.

I donate to the NRA and they do the same thing with respect to gun restrictions. The money and power within those member numbers amplifies anything we could do on our own. No cult so your attempt to smear is a giant fail. Saviors??????? I have no doubt we would have lost our gun rights without the NRA. Which is why you continue to vilify them so rabidly.

I wouldn't doubt it if you held a membership in an anti gun group like gun control Inc. The hypocrisy would be funny.

 

[poppopfox]

If you noticed I said erroneous, meaning a false narritive touted by people like Obama and the far left. Fine, in that case allow and advertize ccw on college campuses.

Obama tried to do something about sexual assault in this country and it led to positive changes in campus communities. Don't see the false narrative, perhaps you can explain it?

Here is an article that does take the time to explain it. Want to blame the far left then the far right is fair game as well. Isn't that the side the misogynist Proud Boys are on?

In contrast, Trump’s policy on campus sexual assault is notable not for its substance but its lack thereof. The “Positions” section of the Trump campaign website makes no mention of sexual assault. Though Trump has not published an official stance, his overall track record of fighting rape culture is poor. In 2013, Trump blamed sexual assault in the military on the mixing of male and female troops, perpetuating the fallacy that men simply cannot stop themselves from assaulting women. As recently as August 2016, Trump proposed that if his daughter Ivanka were to be sexually harassed at work, he “would like to think she would find another career or find another company.” This response preserves yet another aspect of rape culture, the notion that women are responsible for preventing themselves from being sexually assaulted.

 

[Rich2018]

More guns = more gun crime.

 

[brianpatrick]

More guns = more gun crime.

= more fear = more guns = more gun crime.

A circle that’s keeps getting bigger.

 

[RF667799]

Exactly, and who again is responsible for the Dickey Amendment which prevented the people's government from doing the necessary data collection essential to the accuracy of these studies. The NRA says "We don't need no stinking research."
Fortunately we have numerous independent researchers willing to give it a try.

The risk of having guns in the community: DGU Fact Sheet
“Stand your ground” laws have been shown to increase homicides. (Hughes 2019)

Ten years after the adoption of right-to-carry (RTC) laws, violent crime is estimated to be 13-15% higher than it would have been without the RTC law. (Donohue 2017)

FBI reports of active shooter incidents find that unarmed civilians stop more active shooters than armed civilians. FBI

GUNS ARE NOT THE “GREAT EQUALIZER” FOR WOMEN Myriad studies show that the NRA and its allies grossly misrepresent the actual dangers women face. It is people women know, not strangers, who pose the greatest threat. Domestic abuse is five times more likely to turn deadly if firearms are present in a home. A case-control study comparing women killed by an intimate partner to women who had been battered but not killed revealed that more than half of the homicide victims lived with a firearm in the home, while that was true for only 16 percent of women who were abused but survived. Evan DeFilippis, Devin Hughes 2016

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Why did you question if there was a counter to the inconclusive study you posted? There is no conclusion to counter.

 

[Daddyo]

#1Why don't you think that we would? Our non-firearm homicide rate is already twice the total homicide rate of developed countries - if guns weren't available for homicide, surely some portion of those murders would continue with non-firearm means.

#2Will "assault weapons" bans reduce the number of law abiding gun owners having them?

Will licensing and registration lower the number of lawful gun owners?

Would the costs of a training requirement reduce the number of new gun owners?

Democrats feel that they're untouchable, especially in state or local elections. They already know that gun owners will vote against them. They aren't worried about losing votes.

#1 He says he doesn't think it will when it already is lol. Classic liberalism is a mental disorder moment.

#2 yes......yes.....yes.....and they are actively importing more new voters. They don't want Cubans or Venezuelans coming here but the rest of South America is welcome. Wonder why? What's the difference? Cubans and Venezuelans vote republican! Guess what the rest vote?

 

[poppopfox]

Translation.....you have no rebuttal yet again. You have been bested once again!

I donate to the red cross and they get help to those in need. They are able to do this more effectively rhan me alone because of their experience and numbers.

I donate to the NRA and they do the same thing with respect to gun restrictions. The money and power within those member numbers amplifies anything we could do on our own. No cult so your attempt to smear is a giant fail. Saviors??????? I have no doubt we would have lost our gun rights without the NRA. Which is why you continue to vilify them so rabidly.

I wouldn't doubt it if you held a membership in an anti gun group like gun control Inc. The hypocrisy would be funny.

Your hypocrisy is sad, selling suicide machines and potential weapons of domestic abuse to the public, not to mention the accidental deaths and firearm injuries to children from those same weapons you sell. It's like you're the nurse assistant who hands the instruments for abortion to the doctor - not her responsibility what the doctor uses them for, amIright friend?

"Now that you've been bested again... ."

 

[Rich2018]

= more fear = more guns = more gun crime.

A circle that’s keeps getting bigger.

Indeed

It's a self feeding vicious circle.

 

[Rucker61]

However, according to most studies 85% of Republicans and 90% of Democrats want to restrict weapons in the hands of the mentally unstable.

18 USC 246 has restricted the mentally ill since 1968.

72% of Republicans and 92 % of Democrats want background checks for gun shows and private sales. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/

"Universal" background checks are neither effective nor enforceable. It doesn't matter who wants them. They don't do anything to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

The NRA is foremost in lobbying against any legislation that would restrict guns sales to the unstable mass shooters that drive most of the anti-gun talk.

Cite? Those adjudicated mentally defective and those who had been institutionalized have been prohibited persons since 1968. What new laws are you proposing?