The real reason the anti gun crowd has a problem with armed self defense with a gun!

[brianpatrick]

You don't believe the concept of evil? History is full of evil people! People who do the most vile and inhumane things to other humans.

Samurai practicing cut strokes on innocent civilians.

Warlords cutting off women's breasts.

Japanese soldiers tossing Philippino infants into the air and catching them with the bayonets on their rifles.

Need more recent and much closer.....A Mexican drug cartel member on video eating the heart directly from the chest of his victim. Or decapitated heads being put on stakes as warnings.

Want even closer........just look at the recent murder of the LA college girl. Beautiful young woman violently stabbed to death at the hands of evil.

Or the poor citizen push onto the subway tracks seconds before the train passed killing them instantly.

Friend evil does exist. It's bad enough when it's a nobody. Just an individual citizens with a sick brain. However when it's a person who assumes power, as history has shown many times, millions die and some of the most evil things are done to the people.

Yes TurtleDude is a very intelligent man. Pretty sure you are a smart person. The difference is one of you understands history and evil the other thinks it doesn't exist or will never happen again.

I'm on the side of evil existing. I see it regularly on the news. I just want to reserve the right to defend myself and my family nothing more. Don't want to harm you or any other citizen.

Yep, no evil and no free will. I’ll start another thread about that maybe. The topic deserves its own.

 

[Rucker61]

"History is full of evil people!
Samurai
Warlords
Japanese soldiers
A Mexican drug cartel member
the hands of evil.
millions die"
"It is us vs them. THEY refuse to punish to the max violent criminals and then THEY seek to take our guns. THEY are the reason over 70 percent of violent crime IS being committed by recidivists! THEY cause the gun crime issue then blame us and our guns and use that crime they allowed to happen to seek gun bans."
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Which comes first: an evil world or the need to justify one's arsenal.

There is no need to justify "an arsenal" to you or anyone else.

Evil came first.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook shooter, had 3:
A Bushmaster XM-15 rifle
Glock 20SF pistol
SIG P-226 (which wasn't used)

In addition, a shotgun was found in his mother's car that Lanza had driven to the school, and he had earlier shot his mother dead. with a 22 caliber bolt-action rifle.

More than two handguns doesn't do a mass shooter no good, one in each hand. A rifle takes two hands to use.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

I've got no problem with self defense guns. I've got no problem with hunting rifles either.

What I've got a problem with is rifles designed to inflict mass casualties.

AR-15's are not unusually dangerous than any other semi-auto rifle.

 

[TurtleDude]

80% of shootings are done with handguns. It's perfectly natural to expect more outliers in the statistical sample.

why aren't you (yet) trying to ban handguns then if saving lives is TRULY your motivation ???

 

[TurtleDude]

AR-15's are not unusually dangerous than any other semi-auto rifle.

when you see the anti gun talking points about rifles that "are designed to inflict mass casualties" (why do most police departments issue weapons designed to "inflict mass casualties" then), you know you aren't going to get a rational argument. Anyone who makes that claim is not interested in actual facts

 

[Rucker61]

when you see the anti gun talking points about rifles that "are designed to inflict mass casualties" (why do most police departments issue weapons designed to "inflict mass casualties" then), you know you aren't going to get a rational argument. Anyone who makes that claim is not interested in actual facts

One of my favorite points. Another is that the tactics used by mass shooters wouldn't actually be survivable on a battlefield where all of your intended victims has guns, too.

 

[Rich2018]

except he was not a criminal. He was prosecuted for political reasons and he won. You lost. Calling him a criminal now is slanderous.

No, he was prosecuted because he committed a criminal act

He got away with that act because of a corrupt judge.

 

[RF667799]

No, he was prosecuted because he committed a criminal act

He got away with that act because of a corrupt judge.

Wrong.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

You don't think the right to live in a gun free society should exist ?

Once we have a criminal free society, then we can have a talk about a gun free society.

 

[RF667799]

Once we have a criminal free society, then we can have a talk about a gun free society.

Yeah, but we would also have to have a target competitor free society, a hunter free society, a plinker free society, a varmint and predator free society, and a collector free society.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

No, he was prosecuted because he committed a criminal act

He got away with that act because of a corrupt judge.

The judge isn't corrupt because of no due process. Rittenhouse has had due process and was aqquited.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

(or not soiling himself over the thought that his neighbor has a gun).

Perfect Christmas present, a package of Depends.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

Indeed there's a current YouTube ad by a gun-lock system that is selling it's gun lock on the basis that a locked gun increases the time for an owner to reconsider, if indeed he/she were to get suicidal thoughts.

DC vs Heller overruled the requirement of trigger locks and disassembling firearms. Stupid argument. The time to remove lock is negligible when the owner already has the key.

 

[Rich2018]

Once we have a criminal free society, then we can have a talk about a gun free society.

So you don't think the right to live in a gun free society should exist ?

The judge isn't corrupt because of no due process. Rittenhouse has had due process and was aqquited.

Absolutely he was. He completely sabotaged the DA's attempt to enforce the law.

DC vs Heller overruled the requirement of trigger locks and disassembling firearms. Stupid argument. The time to remove lock is negligible when the owner already has the key.

A stupid ruling, by corrupt justices.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

So you don't think the right to live in a gun free society should exist ?

No, as I just stated, once we live in a criminal free society we can talk about gun free society. Unless you don't believe in a criminal free society.

Absolutely he was. He completely sabotaged the DA's attempt to enforce the law.

A stupid ruling, by corrupt justices.

All judges or court systems are corrupt unless they go by your radical leftwing agenda.

 

[Daddyo]

I’m for all those things and maybe more liberal than that. Libertarian socialist, probably. Universal healthcare, educating our citizens, investing in poor and underserved communities, phasing out fossil fuels, some version of UBI, and I’d probably be for packing SCOTUS if the current crop, placed by chance really, goes off the rails. I think a gun culture is a self perpetuating woe on society. I will vote for slippery slope measures and talk to people about it. They’ll call me a grabber and when that doesn’t work and I’m not mean to them, maybe they’ll listen.

Sometimes though, in a free society people with bad ideas will come to power, but they were voted in. It’s not always true, but often those people were voted in as a reaction to a bad policy, or just bad times that get blamed on one or more policies. And in that case we might have to live with it a bit. Trump seems like this. Those voters are reacting to something, and what they’re reacting to is real. They feel threatened. A lot of them probably are. They are just fooled by his rhetoric, and that of the “storytellers” around him. A lot of story tellers make money doing it, directly or indirectly. Or they gain something personally. But eventually people see it. Not everybody, but people in general. Or at least history. Maybe I’m too optimistic. I’ll probably be dead before I realize it.

So the system is OK until it goes against your beliefs! And you wonder why the tensions are so high.

From your list........your admitted socialist list.......we disagree on everything. Here are the problems your dream will cause.....ruin quality healthcare, extend wait times, and drive up prices. Cause college tuitions to sky rocket AND lower the value of that degree. Throw good money after bad by investing in shithole areas whoch the people will soon destroy as usual. Raise fuel costs AND reduce quality of life as there is no current replacement for fossil fuels. Packing the court will very likely cause a civil war AND its just not right to change the rules when you are in the middle of the game. Add that republicans will furthur pack the court when in power to gain a majority once that precedent has been set. Stupid idea.

Like every socialist you probably believe that it can be made to work THIS TIME. Just wasn't done properly with all those past failures. I'm a business owner. I work massive hours and made major sacrifices to position myself to earn good money. Took a big risk to boot. If you think for one second that I am going to work hard only to have my money stolen from me and redistributed to whoever governments feels is appropriate you have another thing coming lol. I will join the bums and lower class before I work to support others with less work ethic. With socialism soon many others will do the same and the system will collapse and all will be broke and hungry.

Finally guns.......no socialist will ever get my guns. I have seen history. I have seen evil both historical and current. I will not ever give up my guns. I don't care that some misuse them. Make them pay harsh penalties for such misuse not me. Just leave me alone. My gun harms noone.

Man is the most dangerous animal on earth. Our ability to plot, plan, reason, and use tools makes us incredibly adaptive and very dangerous. Our lack of strength compared to other animals is overcome by our brains. Most of us are good people. Evil however does exists and it is amongst us. To deny that is to deny the sky is blue. Socialist and communist governments have throughout history killed and brutalized millions of innocent people. Never mind the evil next door that we may run into.

Nothing you can do can protect me and my family.....nothing. If you take all guns evil will use knives. If you take all the knives they will use clubs and so on. Just look at what inmates make from nearly nothing in prisons to commit evil acts. Again punish those who abuse them not me.

Sadely liberals almost never seek to punish the lawless.....why?

 

[Rich2018]

No, as I just stated, once we live in a criminal free society we can talk about gun free society. Unless you don't believe in a criminal free society.

There will always be crime
But that doesn't mean there always has to be guns

Less guns = less crime.

All judges or court systems are corrupt unless they go by your radical leftwing agenda.

Or all judges or court systems are corrupt unless they go by the radical RW political agenda.

 

[Daddyo]

More guns(bombs, tanks, etc) = more dead people. The only place it’s not true is mutually ensured destruction, or nuclear war. The reasons for that seem obvious. I’ve seen the pro gun argument that if everyone were armed there’d be less crime or whatever. Same general argument. But it doesn’t work the same with individual guns/ owners. I just don’t think it’s true. The more armed we are the more everybody is nervous. They not only don’t want to do anything bad or wrong, but they have to take extra care to not even appear to be doing something wrong in that scenario. And what if you’re weird, or different, or goofy? If you live in a small town and everyone knows you’re crazy uncle Billy, but especially in big cities, they don’t. That kind of personal protectionism bubble creates a general anxiety in everyone. People with guns are afraid. Even if it’s just a little afraid, nervous, always on a small alert, noticing things, aware of their surroundings. All that’s good in a soldier or a cop, but in an entire society it makes for edgy, suspicious people. That will never work for long before a couple of bubbles hit each other and pop, and everyone starts shooting. Compare us for gun deaths to any country not in a war. Count the number of guns. Look at the sales pitch. 2+2=4.


Laws get proposed, written, hashed out, end up in court if people don’t like them. The courts rule and that goes along until another lawsuit flips them over, often in ways we didn’t see coming. Some laws get struck down before they start, and some hundreds of years later. Ineffective laws are prime targets for new laws and lawsuits. Enforcement is done by professionals we hire to do that job. If they aren’t, or the laws are not working right or as intended, or are flawed in some other way, somebody will also file a lawsuit and there we go again. Anyway, a long way of saying who am I to decide that. It gets solved by the people.

Not true! How many millions have been killed because they had no way to resist evil? That VS the criminal misuse of guns that kills thousands.

https://www.jcpe.tv/top-ten-most-evil-dictators-of-all-time-in-order-of-kill-count/

128,000,000 innocent people killed in the last 130 years by evil dictators, socialist, and communists. Just from the top 10 friend. 128 million......amazing the level of evil. A million per year vs 20k probably half of which would probably still be alive if they had their own gun.

I believe it can and will happen again. I don't have faith that evil will suddenly turn good. That's why I own guns and believe you should aswell.



How many of those thousands would still be alive had they simply had a gun themselves?

 

[Rich2018]

128,000,000 innocent people killed in the last 130 years by evil dictators, socialist, and communists.

Right wing dictators, like Stalin, Mao, Hitler etc...
Or the RW military Junta in Argentina in the 70's and 80'4 that oversaw 30,000 people "disappear" in the "Dirty War". They weren't socialists

Was Saddam a socialist, or Mussolini or General Franco ?

I believe it can and will happen again. I don't have faith that evil will suddenly turn good. That's why I own guns and believe you should aswell.

Russia today is close to a RW dictatorship.

How many of those thousands would still be alive had they simply had a gun themselves?

None.

 

[Roadvirus]

All judges or court systems are corrupt unless they go by your radical leftwing agenda.

Leftists want all judges to be political activists and to hell with the Constitution and rule of law.

 

[Roadvirus]

Seeing pics of the Ukrainian gov't handing out assault weapons to the citizenry must have caused Gun Controlists to go bugshit!

 

[Linuxcooldude]

There will always be crime
But that doesn't mean there always has to be guns

Then guns will remain for self protection as long as criminals are still around.

 

[Daddyo]

I like those movies, his schtick, but fighting corruption and bad guys and bucking the system on the upper end is only half the story. A lot of innocent people get caught in the crosshairs, and fall down. That’s really why the “chief” has a hard time with him. He makes a lot of progress, but he causes a lot of damage in the process.

He was fighting the liberal system lol. Soft on crime marshmallows.

 

[weaver2]

There is no need to justify "an arsenal" to you or anyone else. Evil came first.

Yes, there is true evil in humans and evil came first before firearms. But evil isn't the norm. Were it the normal behavior of humans we would not have evolved into a species with the atributes that make getting along possible: self awareness, abstract thinking, ability to collaborate and solve complex problems and the ability to question our existance that we call philosophy.

In the US violent crime has been going down. The preception of gun owners, however is that America is becoming more and more dangerous all the time, making it easier to justify buying black guns. One pretends one is surrounded by evil i better than admitting one is just part of a get tough, flag loving, capitalistic, American culture.