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The problem with blaming the Swamp/"Deep State" for Trump failures

Skeptic Bob

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We hear it it here over and over, that the Swamp and "Deep State" are in part to blame for Trump not accomplishing his goals. I don't think Trump supporters realize how that just makes Trump look even more incompetent.

He is the POTUS, it is his responsibility to build and maintain a functioning administration. We are more than half way into his term and if these accusations made by Trump and his supporters are true then that just means Trump is incapable of "cleaning house". He is too incompetent to flush out the leaks in his own White House and even high level officials that Trump personally approves end up criticizing his competence. So either they are telling the truth, and Trump IS incompetent, or they are all lying and that means Trump is incompetent at "hiring the best people".

So since he is too incompetent to clean house, Trump resorts to just not sharing information within his administration. Nobody can effectively do their job because the President doesn't share the information they need to do it. And Trump doesn't care to pay attention to the information they have to share with him. You would think that after 9-11 we would have learned our lesson about the dangers of the right hand and left hand not communicating with each other.

Trump's actual policies don't even bother me that much. Sure, I disagree with many of them but that is the case with all Presidents. I have sided with him here regarding some of the policies on multiple occasions. Do a word search for me using the word "kudos" if you don't believe that. I am a HUGE fan of the fact he hasn't gotten us into any new wars (though I am starting to think that is in part because that would require a LOT more briefings and reading). I'm not even onboard with believing the Russia collusion stuff. I am withholding judgement on the criminal allegations. But even discounting all of that alleged stuff, which for now I am, his inability to build and maintain an effective administration is enough to judge him an incompetent President.

To be fair to Trump voters, there was no real way for them to have KNOWN that would be the case. Now that they do, if they want to defend it they have to undergo mental gymnastics that make the rest of us dizzy to watch. It makes it very difficult to take people seriously who defend this type of "management".
 
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And do those mental gymnastics they will!
 

Federal employment rules makes it virtually impossible for Trump to "clean house".

Moving on...
 
Skeptic Bob said:
We hear it it here over and over, that the Swamp and "Deep State" are in part to blame for Trump not accomplishing his goals. I don't think Trump supporters realize how that just makes Trump look even more incompetent.
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In case anyone's in the dark as to the depths of his incompetence, his incessant whining about his own appointees would indeed be a good clue.
 
Mycroft said:
Federal employment rules makes it virtually impossible for Trump to "clean house".

Moving on...
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I had no problems when I needed to terminate employees for cause. Granted, it requires will, effort, and paperwork. Transferring people to less influential positions is easier and stripping someone of their security clearance is even easier. But there is no will to do that in this administration because it isn't really a problem. It is a handy excuse, though.
 

I basically agree. At this juncture, either by omission or commission, Trumps presidential record is overwhelmingly one of gross incompetence and coarse corruption.

Those that ignore or proffer apologia for this horrid administration do so willingly and with eyes open.
 

I'm in the same boat as you, I have like and supported some of the things Trump has done, opposed other like with any other president in my life time. I think the problem with Trump is he really doesn't have a political ideology. That other than "The Wall." Those under him, trying to run the different agencies really have no idea of what he wants. He can change what he wants and stands for from one day to the next. It's hard to work for a boss that doesn't know what he wants or what direction to take. It's even harder when the boss wants something today, but reverses it tomorrow.

I sure Trump has hired some good people, people who tried to do exactly what Trump wanted. At the time that is. If Trump was a real conservative, those below him would know exactly what path to take. There wouldn't be changing directions constantly as a new whim enters the bosses head. With no real ideology, it's government run by Trump's seat of his pants. That leaves everyone below him guessing. It also leads to a huge turnover in staff.

I think Trump supporters knew before he was elected that he didn't have an political ideology or even a philosophy to speak of. That's why they called Trump a populist, a nationalist, even a nativist. Everything but a conservative which is what they would have us believe today. I believe Trump supporters loved the fact he was a fighter, wouldn't take any guff, not from anyone. You seen this in all the feuds Trump created. They didn't care he wasn't a conservative, didn't care Trump didn't have a political ideology, he was just a fighter who would strike back hard at anyone who even said a bad word about him.

So the bottom line is we have a fighter as president with no idea where he wants to take this country. I think Trump just lives for the fight, whatever direction the country is headed isn't a worry to him. He doesn't have an ideology to provide the direction.
 
I thought Trump would be a good manager. I thought he would bring good people on board and employ them effectively. I was floored by what a hot mess he turned out to be.
 
Amelia said:
I thought Trump would be a good manager. I thought he would bring good people on board and employ them effectively. I was floored by what a hot mess he turned out to be.
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I thought that as well. I assumed that was a skill he had to have in order to run his business. That seems like a logical assumption. But we assumed wrong. Makes me wonder how many people in his company were directly picked by him rather than being picked by people his father put in place. Or maybe running a family owned company, even a large one, and running the US government are two completely different things.
 

Something I like to say is a manager is only is as good as his staff. Clearly Trump has made bad decisions in this area. The most blatant to me being Sessions. A do nothing who happened to be a loyal lackey. Bringing in his daughter and son-in-law who had no experience in politics was not only bad policy but also bad for his kids.

That being said it is helpful to remember that due to his divisive campaign experienced experts refused to would with him. Add that to the senate holding up basic appointments and he was left with a bunch of holdovers more intent in leaking dirt than helping the administration and country succeed. He had a hand in this and payback is a b****.

So net-net he has not been able the swamp. Not sure any president can. Most don't even want to acknowledge the problem lest they get the treatment (deserved or not) that Trump gets from many federal employees. With a 4 trillion dollar budget simply too much money for too many to fix IMO.
 
No offense, but I think you guys got too caught up in Trump's celebrity image of being a good businessman.

I understand why. Most of the public information that showed he was actually terrible at business and a horrific incompetent, wasn't covered in the news until very late in 2016, and most of the time the media was obsessed with Clinton's emails.
 

Sounds to me like a defense of the bureaucratic undermining of President Trump's administration.
 
Amelia said:
I thought Trump would be a good manager. I thought he would bring good people on board and employ them effectively. I was floored by what a hot mess he turned out to be.
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I didn't mainly because he was never in a position of managing people larger than a few who reported directly to him. You learn a lot about management when you're in daily operations; without that experience you're only taking guesses at what it actually takes to get things done. What I had hoped for was him listening to the people he hired so he could learn about all the things under his purview instead of going rogue and leaving agency/staff to put out fires.
 

Guilty as charged.
 

I agree with that. There was plenty of information out there that would make people doubt Trump's actual ability as a businessman, but unfortunately it wasn't something that was extensively covered during the race. Inheriting hundreds of millions of dollars and a successful real estate business is not a good reason to think he knew what he was doing. Honestly, if The Apprentice never happened we might not be talking about Trump right now.
 
Bingo!

Trump was a well known buffoon before he ran for president. A ballsy, loud mouthed, self aggrandizing buffoon and pathologic liar.

In the civilian sector that works very well for him, because he hires and associates with people like himself. He has full control over all the swamp creatures in his companies. He can’t do that as president, much to his dismay/anger.

Unfortunately for Trump, there are a lot of actual patriots serving in our government, constantly getting in his way. Then there’s the press, his most hated foe. He can’t shut them up or pay them off.

Yep, Trump would be much better off (along with the rest of us) going back to his gaudy gold plated tower in NYC. Next year we get to vote to send him back there. :thumbs:
 

You mean to say that the oft repeated meme about the left wing fake news being at the root of Trump's problems isn't actually true?
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Guilty as charged.
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I sentence you to twenty five days in the Trump WH, where you must record everything the president says.

Pot will be provided; no cruel and unusual punishment.
 
apdst said:
Sounds to me like a defense of the bureaucratic undermining of President Trump's administration.
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Even if we took this statement at face value, its still on him.

He couldn't even get the Congress of his own damned party to follow through with simple appointments to "get rid of the Deep State". They had other things they were more concerned with....see the tax reform.

And even if we ignore the appointment side of the equation, we simply need to look at those he directly hired. Most of the have a shelf life of less than a year (SHS must be desperate for work, I can't imagine shes loving her job currently), and that is direct reflection on his decision making ability and his leadership. The consistent thing that people who worked for him and left say is that you never know day to day what the policy is going to be.

To be fair, though, it could be intentional. I mean, given the things we are hearing about lately, you actually have people on this board defending the idea that what the President wants, the President should get, normal policy be damned. Given that fact, he could actually be laying the framework that if he wins another term, he could essentially operate without the interference of any agency that wasn't going to rubber stamp his desires.
 

I don't recall that. Could you post a quote, or two?
 

Good post. I want to push back on the topic of Trump avoiding new wars. He put John Bolton and Mike Pompeo in his administration. John Bolton is arguably the most dangerous person on the planet right now. Both those guys are angling for coups in Nicaragua, Iran, and Venezuela.

It looks like they are going to get their coup in Venezuela. Did you see the international community pushed back on the notion that the Venezuela had destroyed aide? Bolton and Trump have already admitted that the coup in Venezuela is about taking their oil for I want to say Shell's parent company.

Then you have the business with Iran, Trump, Pompeo, and Bolton, all coaxing Iran into making one step towards building another nuke and then they can get the war drums beating again. Pompeo already lying over and over and over again on the issue.

Bolton also tweeted out the other day that Nicaragua is in his sights for regime change.

That and you've also got Trump during the early days of his presidency escalating the violence and throwing out any rules aimed at exercising restraint by the previous administration. Since Trump took office the rate of drone strikes has increased by 4 times.

https://theintercept.com/2017/06/13...CcMUsuuN_nsE3EYZsar2XjXdmsQ86fkmb_-8z4XtE65zU

Trump's still bombing in 7 or 8 different countries. He is a hawk, imo, along with the neo-cons he put in charge. This is an area where Trump is too ignorant and lazy to vet his appointments, so his rhetoric on the campaign trail ends up not matching his administration. Because he's lazy and ignorant is my guess.

Since President Donald Trump took office earlier this year, the rate of drone strikes per month has increased by almost four times Obama’s average.
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apdst said:
I don't recall that. Could you post a quote, or two?
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Are you really gonna be that ignorant of something that anyone can read by going into the threads about Kushy's security clearance?

There were people proclaiming that if the President wants to give one to anyone they want, ITS HIS RIGHT.

Come on man....at least a modicum of intellectual honesty would be appreciated.
 

Singing it to the Choir, Brother
But our other Brothers Ain't Listenin...
Sad to say, but it is just the way it is, for now.
 

Ridiculous analysis. You have no problem with the deliberate attempts to assail a duly-elected POTUS, by the jackasses doing it.

So he should have fired every single existing administration employee upon taking office, because it's the President's fault that assholes invested in undermining his presidency remained in the administration after his election.

And it's a woman's fault if she gets raped, for leaving her home, too, right?
 
apdst said:
I don't recall that. Could you post a quote, or two?
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The Wall ring a bell? Or have you been asleep during the past 4 months?
 
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