The problem with "anyone but Trump" is there isn't anyone "there"

[HangLow]

The work is what matters and the work is good.





Haters and cultists say that.

I say that quality work is quality work.


What that has to do with anything is unclear.

Join reality sometimes. You might learn something.




You see it but you cannot bring yourself to admit it.


Same song second verse.

Leaders accomplish goals through others. If Trump's subordinates are successful then he is successful.


I won't argue that.

It's the work product that matters and it's good.


There you are wrong. The tax cut went mostly to the middle class. The ones paying 50% of taxes received barely 1/3 of the benefit.

The real benefit of the tax reform law was making US companies more competitive in international markets


So, not like you.

Got it.

​

 

[NWRatCon]

An idea I've toyed with and actually see a lot of advantages for is selecting legislators in the way we select jurors. Call people from ordinary public life, and let them serve for two years like for the National Guard, with a guarantee their job is kept open for their return.

What we lose in "experience" (which is over-valued in my view), we will gain in getting money out of the political system. No need to kowtow to lobbyists to fund re-election, no need to spin spider-webs of influence among legislative colleagues, no more "career" politicians.

It started as a kind of joke in my mind. But many a truth has been spoken in jest.

I've worked with legislators and the value of experience cannot be  overstated. New/inexperienced legislators are almost always ineffective, sometimes dangerously so. Even savvy ones can rarely get anything accomplished. It takes time to develop liaisons and networks.

More importantly, unless they were staff members to legislators, they don't know the players and are often misled by lobbyists. It's even worse when legislatures deliberately eliminate experienced staffers. That's when you have lobbyists writing the legislation for them.

Been there, done that, seen the disasters.

 

[NWRatCon]

That seems doubtful. Remember that after four years of Trump's presidency in the 2020 election he gained more votes, the second highest in US history, while Republicans gained one governorship, and a net 10 seats in Congress (+13 House, -3 Senate). And then - after the January coup attempt and the party clearing Trump in his 2nd impeachment, as well as their SCOTUS stripping a long-established constitutional right from women, two developments one might think should scupper them even individually - they won the popular vote in 2022 and gained control of the House. It obviously wasn't the landslide that the midterms in a struggling economy might have been, and I think it's pretty safe to say that on balance Trump is more a liability than an asset and will likely become even moreso going forward, but there's also plenty of evidence to suggest that the idea of the Republican Party being electorally crippled by him aren't much more than wishful thinking at this point.

The landscape is seriously tilted in the GOP's favor, regardless of the merits of the candidates.

 

[Jay59]

View attachment 67463443

No thoughts at all?

 

[HangLow]

No thoughts at all?

​

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

That seems doubtful. Remember that after four years of Trump's presidency in the 2020 election he gained more votes, the second highest in US history, while Republicans gained one governorship, and a net 10 seats in Congress (+13 House, -3 Senate). And then - after the January coup attempt and the party clearing Trump in his 2nd impeachment, as well as their SCOTUS stripping a long-established constitutional right from women, two developments one might think should scupper them even individually - they won the popular vote in 2022 and gained control of the House. It obviously wasn't the landslide that the midterms in a struggling economy might have been, and I think it's pretty safe to say that on balance Trump is more a liability than an asset and will likely become even moreso going forward, but there's also plenty of evidence to suggest that the idea of the Republican Party being electorally crippled by him aren't much more than wishful thinking at this point.

What seems doubtful? Not the history books -- they will crucify the Republican Party for standing by Trump during these past 7 years.

Absentee voting benefitted both parties in the 2020 election, due to Covid. That is a major reason for record turnout for both Republicans and Democrats.

Those Congressional seat numbers that you cited were before Jan 6, before Trump's 4 indictments, and before the Dobbs abortion decision. 2024 could be a total disaster for Republicans.

 

[Jay59]

View attachment 67463457

Apparently, you cannot think for yourself.

 

[Variant]

The problem isn't the GOP Candidates, it's the GOP electorate.

Any one of the Republicans running should be 50 points ahead of Trump.

There is no excuse for supporting Trump at this point. No one should be a Trump supporter.

That's what happens when you build a big expensive media empire to do nothing but feed the masses rightwing BS in hopes of molding them into the perfect gullible willing electorate possible.

What do you do when you need those people to be serious principled adults who need to make good decisions?

 

[CaliforniaHoustonian]

Cowardly Mitch McConnell could have permanently removed this Trump nightmare from the Republican Party in Feb 2021, after the second impeachment trial. Now Trump gets to continue to be the entire country's nightmare for at least the next 15 months.

So much for McConnell being a "wise politician". All evidence to the contrary.

Old news, but still relevant

 

[CaliforniaHoustonian]

Ok. Let's just cut to the chase. All this talk about the other Republican candidates is a waste of time. They just don't matter. Trump WILL be the Republican candidate.

But, that doesn't mean your thread title is useless. It really does apply when talking about Trump and Biden.

The problem with "anyone but Trump" is there isn't anyone "there"​

And that's the truth. With Biden, there ISN'T anyone there.

You wish.

 

[Mithrae]

What seems doubtful? Not the history books -- they will crucify the Republican Party for standing by Trump during these past 7 years.

Maybe, but that's not going to actually help anyone or make anything better.

Absentee voting benefitted both parties in the 2020 election, due to Covid. That is a major reason for record turnout for both Republicans and Democrats.

Those Congressional seat numbers that you cited were before Jan 6, before Trump's 4 indictments, and before the Dobbs abortion decision. 2024 could be a total disaster for Republicans.

Republicans won the popular vote in 2022. By a narrower margin than might otherwise be expected, sure, but that hardly suggests that American voters were widely repulsed by Republican actions. It suggests (on balance) indifference at most.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

An idea I've toyed with and actually see a lot of advantages for is selecting legislators in the way we select jurors. Call people from ordinary public life, and let them serve for two years like for the National Guard, with a guarantee their job is kept open for their return.

What we lose in "experience" (which is over-valued in my view), we will gain in getting money out of the political system. No need to kowtow to lobbyists to fund re-election, no need to spin spider-webs of influence among legislative colleagues, no more "career" politicians.

It started as a kind of joke in my mind. But many a truth has been spoken in jest.

Great post! Another advantage is that many more 'regular' people/citizens would have an opportunity to truly witness government. This would spread awareness of the hideous realities of 'our' Republicrat $hit puppet government along with many other positive things.

 

[HangLow]

Apparently, you cannot think for yourself.

Do you think that YOU are thinking for YOURSELF?.?.?.
Boy are YOU delusional...
-Peace

 

[Jay59]

Do you think that YOU are thinking for YOURSELF?.?.?.

That's what they tell me.

I do dig for facts where others will not. Perhaps its the facts that are doing the thinking.

Boy are YOU delusional...

At least they would be my delusions, not someone else's.

-Peace

 

[Luckyone]

The Republican party would desperately not have to tie its wagon to the faltering ship that is Donald Trump, but what are the options? The field has not significantly changed since March - when all of the indictments started:

The 2024 GOP field: How they win, how they lose (Politico);​

Who’s ahead in the national polls? (FiveThirtyEight)​

Let's all stop pretending anyone but Trump will be the GOP presidential nominee (Salon)​

"Not only are all these "new" Republicans molding themselves into the MAGA image of angry culture warriors, but they are all also going to fail miserably to unseat Trump. All this talk about new blood is interesting to the mainstream press and their mostly non-Republican audiences, but it fails to understand what motivates most Republican voters, especially those who vote in primaries. They don't want fresh faces, or anything resembling change. The whole point of being MAGA is bitterly clinging to an imaginary past, and rejecting any reminder that time is marching on past the stale reactionary politics of people, like Trump, who haven't updated their worldviews since the 80s."
...
"Haley got some good press by bragging about raising $11 million in 6 weeks. Turns out the real number was closer to $8 million. Scott can't get much attention at all, except when he's bumbling an answer about abortion. And the more people see DeSantis, the less they like him, as his plummeting poll numbers and increasingly dry fundraising apparatus show. Realistically, the polls are where they have been for a couple of years: Trump is the frontrunner in the GOP primary race and no one else is close. That isn't going to change."

None of them are serious candidates. NONE OF THEM. They are all just hoping that they can survive longer than Trump and his myriad indictments, and that is no basis for electing someone. They have literally nothing on offer. (I miss Romney and McCain.)

Your OP goes to show (and etch-in-stone) how much the Republican party has fallen. Where Trump is the clear choice, miles apart from the 2nd choice (DeSantis who is as bad as Trump) and a million miles above all the other candidates, means that the Republican party is now a total pile of garbage.

Greed, search-for-power, uncaring-of-others, fascist, blind-by-choice and Autocratic people that are in love with guns and bullying as well as lying, and are not faithful to what our forefathers fought for are not worth one penny.

This is a chart of the Republican party



And this is where they are hoping to get down to:

 

[j brown's body]

It doesn't matter if another candidate rises in the polls. There is a significant percentage of GOP voters who will stay home if Trump isn't the candidate.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It doesn't matter if another candidate rises in the polls. There is a significant percentage of GOP voters who will stay home if Trump isn't the candidate.

Isn’t the reverse also true?

 

[Luckyone]

Ok. Let's just cut to the chase. All this talk about the other Republican candidates is a waste of time. They just don't matter. Trump WILL be the Republican candidate.

But, that doesn't mean your thread title is useless. It really does apply when talking about Trump and Biden.

The problem with "anyone but Trump" is there isn't anyone "there"​

And that's the truth. With Biden, there ISN'T anyone there.

I hope you enjoy your new home if Trump gets elected. Given your love for Trump, I am sure you will enjoy it to the fullest.

 

[SuperDS77]

The problem with "anyone but Trump" is there isn't anyone "there"​

And that's the truth. With Biden, there ISN'T anyone there.

Well done.

Kinda like Biden!

 

[IQ57]

When they voted for anything but Trump they voted for the establishment and it’s puppet.

Look how horrible this has all turned out.

The media has full control over their mental health. These people are trying to push it on everyone else.

They were conned being told they weren’t.

Projection got the best of them, and it still does to this day.

I’m here to help.

 

[jnug]

When they voted for anything but Trump they voted for the establishment and it’s puppet.

Instead of voting for racism, autocracy and Fascism which is all Trump was and is selling

Look how horrible this has all turned out.

Another American hellscape argument. Good luck with that

The media has full control over their mental health. These people are trying to push it on everyone else.

Over the mentally weak MAYBE. The rest of us....NOPE

They were conned being told they weren’t.

Projection got the best of them, and it still does to this day.

I’m here to help.

Thats OK....You can go back where you came from. Doing fine....no need of your help

 

[Luckyone]

When they voted for anything but Trump they voted for the establishment and it’s puppet.

Look how horrible this has all turned out.

The media has full control over their mental health. These people are trying to push it on everyone else.

They were conned being told they weren’t.

Projection got the best of them, and it still does to this day.

I’m here to help

We all enjoy food but there is a difference in what food we will get if Trump is elected or if Biden is elected.

Choose which one you prefer.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

Maybe, but that's not going to actually help anyone or make anything better.


Republicans won the popular vote in 2022. By a narrower margin than might otherwise be expected, sure, but that hardly suggests that American voters were widely repulsed by Republican actions. It suggests (on balance) indifference at most.

By historical standards, do you realize how poorly the Republican Party did in 2022? They only gained 10 House seats. That is a terrible sign for them headed into 2024, when voter turnout will be much higher in a Presidential election.

In Clinton's first mid-term in 1994 and Obama's first mid-term in 2010, Republicans gained 50 - 60 House seats.

Even though Biden had a 37% approval rating in Nov 2022, Democrats still won the Independent vote 49% - 47%. Independents are not going to vote for this crazy Repug MAGA Party in 2024 and they are going to get crushed.

 

[element94]

Haters and cultists say that.

I say that quality work is quality work.

So, they bring all these charges because he was doing good work? You're the one that needs to check into reality. Whew boy!

What that has to do with anything is unclear.

Join reality sometimes. You might learn something.

This is just too rich, in fact, it's off the meter.

 

[NWRatCon]

Isn’t the reverse also true?

Actually, no. A different segment of the GOP will simply not vote if Trump is the nominee. That's why his peak is the same as his current support.