"If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge them?"
"The problem is not having this orientation," he said. "We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation,..."
BBC News - Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?
This is a position similar to the one I have held for many years.
The Church doesn't hate gays. The Church doesn't find having homosexual orientation in and of itself to be a sin. The Church finds acting on that orientation to be sinful. Just as acting on heterosexual impulses it views to be sinful when engaged outside the sacrament of marriage. The Church sees marriage as child centered, the act of sex to be the joining of two into one through the sexual act with the openness to God-giving life,(the "two into one" being the act in creating the child, it isn't some snazzy metaphor for doing the hoocheecoochee). This doesn't mean the Church can or will endorse gay marriage as an alternative which then allows homosexual acts to commence. No, it is expressly because homosexual acts do not allow for the openness to God-giving life which is the stumbling block of homosexuality. It is the unique and specific ability that 1 man and 1 woman have in creating this opportunity which is the foundation upon which everything else lays.
Now, the problem is in the lobbying, the actions of interested and not always genuine parties who put forth an agenda which seeks to destroy this foundation. THAT the Church will never allow and that is what is the sin.
Is this not a position of tolerance? Of good will? Of inclusiveness?
I've written this with no ill will and in good spirit. I'd ask anyone who would respond to this post and take part in this discussion to do so in the same spirit and intention. This is in part the teaching of the Church as it regards homosexuality and marriage as I have learned and understand it. Any incorrect information given is of my own ignorance and not a willful omission. If I have omitted anything pertinent to the conversation , mea culpa...
BBC News - Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?
This is a position similar to the one I have held for many years.
The Church doesn't hate gays. The Church doesn't find having homosexual orientation in and of itself to be a sin. The Church finds acting on that orientation to be sinful. Just as acting on heterosexual impulses it views to be sinful when engaged outside the sacrament of marriage. The Church sees marriage as child centered, the act of sex to be the joining of two into one through the sexual act with the openness to God-giving life,(the "two into one" being the act in creating the child, it isn't some snazzy metaphor for doing the hoocheecoochee). This doesn't mean the Church can or will endorse gay marriage as an alternative which then allows homosexual acts to commence. No, it is expressly because homosexual acts do not allow for the openness to God-giving life which is the stumbling block of homosexuality. It is the unique and specific ability that 1 man and 1 woman have in creating this opportunity which is the foundation upon which everything else lays.
Now, the problem is in the lobbying, the actions of interested and not always genuine parties who put forth an agenda which seeks to destroy this foundation. THAT the Church will never allow and that is what is the sin.
Is this not a position of tolerance? Of good will? Of inclusiveness?
I've written this with no ill will and in good spirit. I'd ask anyone who would respond to this post and take part in this discussion to do so in the same spirit and intention. This is in part the teaching of the Church as it regards homosexuality and marriage as I have learned and understand it. Any incorrect information given is of my own ignorance and not a willful omission. If I have omitted anything pertinent to the conversation , mea culpa...
If it wasn't part of gods plan, there wouldn't be any homosexuality.
Who are any of these people to question or even affirm gods plan? God doesn't need anyones permission.
If it wasn't part of gods plan, there wouldn't be any homosexuality.
Who are any of these people to question or even affirm gods plan? God doesn't need anyones permission.
You're referring to the "lavender mafia." And it's important to note that in his recent comments, Pope Francis was referring to gay clergy.
Actually God's plan was for there to be no sin at all.
How do you know this?
Scripture
Correct, the homosexual "orientation" is part of the sin nature. But can be conquered in Christ.
Nice of you to speak on behalf of Christ given that he did not apparently even see the issue of homosexuality to be worth talking about himself. Apparently he must not have foreseen how much energy and resources would be expended on this topic.
In vitro fertilization and surrogacy have made these arguments somewhat irrelevant. How do you argue against committed homosexual unions when technology has bypassed the argument? Arguing against the technology is a claim that all infertile heterosexual couples who use it are somehow wrong. The only recourse is to argue gender roles and even that falls flat in modern society.
Nice of you to speak on behalf of Christ given that he did not apparently even see the issue of homosexuality to be worth talking about himself. Apparently he must not have foreseen how much energy and resources would be expended on this topic.
He also didn't discuss rape either, does that mean that is a non-issue? That's a very poor argument that you and many others try to convey.
Matthew 5:18
For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.
So actually he did.
Nice of you to speak on behalf of Christ given that he did not apparently even see the issue of homosexuality to be worth talking about himself. Apparently he must not have foreseen how much energy and resources would be expended on this topic.
Huh? You gotta help me on that one.
You're referring to the "lavender mafia." And it's important to note that in his recent comments, Pope Francis was referring to gay clergy.
He kind of said "love thy neighbor" and I think that is kind of hard to do while raping them. Your counterargument is a bit weak.
The point is Jesus did not list every sin, wasn't His purpose so to say that because he did not expressly say anything about homosexuality as an argument for it is quite frankly, ignorant.
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