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The Minimum Wage

Would you vote to abolish the minimum wage (even temporarily)

  • Yes definitely

    Votes: 32 40.0%

  • No, it will not solve our problems

    Votes: 44 55.0%

  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 4 5.0%
  • Total voters
    80
F

FreshlyMinted

Active member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
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Location
Seattle, WA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
As an unemployed (seeking employment) college student, I was thinking that it would be a rather swell Idea to abolish the minimum wage allowing businesses to pay whatever they wanted to people forcing more competition and allowing more jobs to open up along with other employers being able to continue to afford all of the benefits to current (and future) employees. Some of you might worry that the worker actually gets shafted here because he/she will not be making enough money to have a living wage to which I say that $3/hour is considerably better than $0.

I categorically oppose the minimum wage, but grudgingly accept that a lot of people like it, but in times of high unemployment, how is it not the best course of action?
 
If I have to pay an employee a certain amount, then I will have to raise the price of my goods, to compensate. I'm sure in no position to take the lose myself. So the numbers get higher, but everything stays relatively the same. Evey one just passes the increase on down the line, and nothing has been accomplished.
 
The market should set the wages. IMO, some think minimum wage should be a livalble income. When I started working, minimum wage was considered to be an entry level wage. It was for young people to be able to work and learn skills and work ethics. Somehow along the way it has evolved for some to think that they should be able to live from it. This should not be the case. Minimum wage should be done away with. Employees will get what the market will support.
 
Skateguy said:
If I have to pay an employee a certain amount, then I will have to raise the price of my goods, to compensate. I'm sure in no position to take the lose myself. So the numbers get higher, but everything stays relatively the same. Evey one just passes the increase on down the line, and nothing has been accomplished.
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If you really have the power to raise prices without impacting your sales, or at least with a less than proportional impact on sales, which can be inferred from your argument, it makes me wonder why you haven't done so already. Do you not like profit?

More likely, it's just not true. If minimum wage were raised tomorrow, most of the cost would be eaten by businesses, and ultimately by many workers who would be laid off. Only a few with very inelastic demand for their products would be able to pass it on.
 
mike2810 said:
The market should set the wages. IMO, some think minimum wage should be a livalble income. When I started working, minimum wage was considered to be an entry level wage. It was for young people to be able to work and learn skills and work ethics. Somehow along the way it has evolved for some to think that they should be able to live from it. This should not be the case. Minimum wage should be done away with. Employees will get what the market will support.
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I could understand maybe a $1, minimum wage to prevent some gross abuses, but I think you hit the nail on the head.
 
Why not get rid of the payroll income tax on anyone that makes the minimum wage? And that includes the payroll tax paid by the employer.

Wouldn't that allow a lower minimum wage, but with more take home pay for the worker and less costs for the employer? Seems like it would. Just asking...
 
All the minimum wage does is cause unemployment and inflation. It is a perfect example of bad economic policy written by people who fundamentally do not understand economics, and thus do not understand the undesirable consequences of their actions.

I'm not greatly concerned with abolishing the minimum wage, as it will not solve any of our economic problems, but I am deeply and vehemently opposed to any attempts to increase it further.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
All the minimum wage does is cause unemployment and inflation. It is a perfect example of bad economic policy written by people who fundamentally do not understand economics, and thus do not understand the undesirable consequences of their actions.

I'm not greatly concerned with abolishing the minimum wage, as it will not solve any of our economic problems, but I am deeply and vehemently opposed to any attempts to increase it further.
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I think ignorant is actually a charitable assessment of the pro-union, anti-immigrant, vote buying politicians who set and continue to raise the minimum wage. I have a sneaking suspicion they know exactly who the winners and losers are and they like it that way.
 
Given a choice between ignorance and malfeasance as the source of wrongful behavior, I always attribute it to ignorance. People will mostly choose to do the right thing once they have all the facts at their disposal.
 
I also oppose the minimum wage. Tax funded welfare will make up the difference ;)
 
So - how would a business function if there was no set minimum wage?

If I was working at Hobby Lobby and they ended minimum wage my employer would likely immediately fire everyone and hire those who were willing to work for less.

No - i don't see how ending something that keeps things functioning would be ideal.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
No - i don't see how ending something that keeps things functioning would be ideal.
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Except the minimum wage doesn't keep anything functional-- it is a meaningless manipulation of numbers. It ignores the most basic economic principle of supply and demand; government cannot simply change the value of labor by fiat.
 
FreshlyMinted said:
As an unemployed (seeking employment) college student, I was thinking that it would be a rather swell Idea to abolish the minimum wage allowing businesses to pay whatever they wanted to people forcing more competition and allowing more jobs to open up along with other employers being able to continue to afford all of the benefits to current (and future) employees. Some of you might worry that the worker actually gets shafted here because he/she will not be making enough money to have a living wage to which I say that $3/hour is considerably better than $0.

I categorically oppose the minimum wage, but grudgingly accept that a lot of people like it, but in times of high unemployment, how is it not the best course of action?
Click to expand...

I will support the abolishment of the minimum wage only if we place salary caps for executive pay. Otherwise, the gap between the poor, the middle class, and the wealthy will be even greater than it already is.

That's my statement. I don't necessarily need both a minimum wage and a salary cap, but I do think we should have one or the other.
 
Abolish it. Most companies pay more than minimum wage anyway and turnover and poor performance will probably kill those that will pay less than the current minimum.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
So - how would a business function if there was no set minimum wage?

If I was working at Hobby Lobby and they ended minimum wage my employer would likely immediately fire everyone and hire those who were willing to work for less.

No - i don't see how ending something that keeps things functioning would be ideal.
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Hobby Lobby is paying minimum wage?
 
We have had the minimum wage for about 80 years now. It has been raised dozens of times since it was instituted, and you can't correlate a single one of those increases to a reduction in the employment rate or higher inflation.

For example, if I am not mistaken, we raised the minimum wage 3 times from 1993 to 2000. During that time, we also created 22 million new jobs. We also had an increase in the median household income of around 8k, and inflation was tame.

Sure, you could raise the minimum wage to a point that it would have a negative effect on job growth. However, we have yet to do that. The minimum wage is regularly vilified as a job killer, but there are not any real world examples of if being a drag on job growth. I don't think that the minimum wage is very effective at reducing the poverty rate as its proponents suggest, I just think it pretty much does nothing either way as its usually set at whatever the minimum prevailing wage is anyway.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
We have had the minimum wage for about 80 years now. It has been raised dozens of times since it was instituted, and you can't correlate a single one of those increases to a reduction in the employment rate or higher inflation.

For example, if I am not mistaken, we raised the minimum wage 3 times from 1993 to 2000. During that time, we also created 22 million new jobs. We also had an increase in the median household income of around 8k, and inflation was tame.

Sure, you could raise the minimum wage to a point that it would have a negative effect on job growth. However, we have yet to do that. The minimum wage is regularly vilified as a job killer, but there are not any real world examples of if being a drag on job growth. I don't think that the minimum wage is very effective at reducing the poverty rate as its proponents suggest, I just think it pretty much does nothing either way as its usually set at whatever the minimum prevailing wage is anyway.
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correlation does not prove causation. The economic factors that played in to the increase in jobs could have been completely separate and I argue that they are. Minimum wage tries to defy supply-and-demand economics. When employers have to pay more money to each individual employee the total number of employees decreases that's just common sense.

If you want an example of negative impact and loss of jobs consider our current situation. People are having to work for free to get a chance at getting hired later. What if employers could just hire two for half the price of one? Isn't that preferable?

I also really like the idea of eliminating the employer income tax based on employee wages paid out. That's one of the more stupid ideas to come from capitol hill
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Given a choice between ignorance and malfeasance as the source of wrongful behavior, I always attribute it to ignorance. People will mostly choose to do the right thing once they have all the facts at their disposal.
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you have great faith in mankind.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
Given a choice between ignorance and malfeasance as the source of wrongful behavior, I always attribute it to ignorance. People will mostly choose to do the right thing once they have all the facts at their disposal.
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The right thing for themselves maybe. How else could you explain all the Robert Byrd highways in West Virginia? Did Robert Byrd really think they were the best use of government money, or was he trying to make sure he got reelected every 6 years until the day he died?
 
samsmart said:
I will support the abolishment of the minimum wage only if we place salary caps for executive pay. Otherwise, the gap between the poor, the middle class, and the wealthy will be even greater than it already is.

That's my statement. I don't necessarily need both a minimum wage and a salary cap, but I do think we should have one or the other.
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That's absolutely wrong. If more kids can get entry level jobs and gain experience and references, it will be easier for them to break the cycle of poverty.
 
gopman said:
That's absolutely wrong. If more kids can get entry level jobs and gain experience and references, it will be easier for them to break the cycle of poverty.
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I am not sure i can agree that the minimum wage is the barrier into the labor force. IMHO, there is a serious surplus of unskilled potential labor in a world where advanced skill sets are the ticket. Does this present a catch 22 style dilemma in receiving proper training during formative years? Not really, as we have internships readily available (although there is a shortage in this regard) where young adults are willing to forgo any pay in an attempt to "skill up". Therefore i do not believe the issue is as black and white as many are making it out to be.
 
The minimum wage is already so minimal, I feel like, if you can't pay it, you really can't afford to be in business.
 
Goldenboy219 said:
I am not sure i can agree that the minimum wage is the barrier into the labor force. IMHO, there is a serious surplus of unskilled potential labor in a world where advanced skill sets are the ticket. Does this present a catch 22 style dilemma in receiving proper training during formative years? Not really, as we have internships readily available (although there is a shortage in this regard) where young adults are willing to forgo any pay in an attempt to "skill up". Therefore i do not believe the issue is as black and white as many are making it out to be.
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Well think about what you're saying. Existence of a "surplus" necessarily means there is a supply/demand imbalance. If the wage were lower (or gone), more could be hired, and fewer would settle for minimum wage- they would use it like the stepping stone it's supposed to be. Internships (and apprenticeships for that matter) have nothing to do with it. They are almost exclusively for jobs that require a lot of skill, usually a college education.
 
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