The memo and why we should all be concerned

[Greenbeard]

It’s like y’all have blinders on, one side used fake evidence to get warrants to illegally spy on the other side.
Will you feel the same if Trump does it to your candidate in the next election since y’all are totally ok with this kind of corruption.

Pretty sure Trump won't be using the domestic intelligence community to do his spying on political opponents.

Jared Kushner and Russia’s ambassador to Washington discussed the possibility of setting up a secret and secure communications channel between Trump’s transition team and the Kremlin, using Russian diplomatic facilities in an apparent move to shield their pre-inauguration discussions from monitoring, according to U.S. officials briefed on intelligence reports.

Old habits die hard.

 

[Greenbeard]

There is not one tiny scrap of evidence to show that ANY PART of the Trump campaign was "in the pocket of Russian intelligence".

Other than his campaign manager and the unregistered foreign agent he made national security adviser (you know, the one who disgraced himself by promising Trump's Russian benefactors sanctions relief and then lying to the FBI about it)?

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Then you cant run around calling the spying on him justified

Carter Page congressional testimony corroborates Steele dossier parts - Business Insider

The House Intelligence Committee on Monday released the full transcript of the former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page's testimony before the panel last week, portions of which support details in an explosive collection of memos outlining alleged collusion between the campaign and Moscow before the 2016 US election.

Page revealed during his testimony that he met with members of Russia's presidential administration and the head of investor relations at the Russian state-owned oil giant Rosneft during his trip to Moscow in July 2016.

He also congratulated members of the Trump campaign's foreign-policy team on July 14 for their "excellent work" on the "Ukraine amendment" - a reference to the Trump campaign's decision to "intervene," a representative previously told Business Insider, to water down a proposed amendment to the GOP's Ukraine platform.

The original amendment proposed that the GOP commit to sending "lethal weapons" to the Ukrainian army to fend off Russian aggression. But it was ultimately altered to say provide "appropriate assistance" before it was included in the party's official platform. The dossier says the campaign "agreed to sideline" the issue of Russia's invasion of Crimea and interference in eastern Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Hillary Clinton, the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee.

Page also disclosed that a Trump campaign adviser named Sam Clovis had asked him to sign a nondisclosure agreement upon joining the campaign - and that he discussed his Moscow trip with Clovis both before he went and after he returned.

Carter page had been on the fbi’s radar since 2013.

 

[Rexedgar]

Outside of the dossier, what evidence was provided to the court to back up these claims?

Your being difficult! The investigation into Carter Page predates the Steele dossier by more than a year.....

 

[Fletch]

The request for the extension of the surveillance was granted three times. Perhaps the other question is, "what is Carter Page doing walking around."......I'm wondering if this is the 'damage' the Democrats were referring to??

If they have been spying on this guy for 3 years and he is still walking around, either they have nothing on him or they are incompetent investigators. Google a Carter Page interview. The guy is incoherent

 

[Sweden]

The request for the extension of the surveillance was granted three times. Perhaps the other question is, "what is Carter Page doing walking around."......I'm wondering if this is the 'damage' the Democrats were referring to??

Why is Carter Page walking around? Easy - because he has committed no crime, despite the best efforts of the Obama regime and its accomplices in the FBI to frame him.

 

[Goshin]

It’s like y’all have blinders on, one side used fake evidence to get warrants to illegally spy on the other side.
Will you feel the same if Trump does it to your candidate in the next election since y’all are totally ok with this kind of corruption.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. IIRC it was Comey who said the warrant would not have been issued without the dossier, which was complied through DNC funding and for politically biased reasons. This was obviously a politically motivated investigation. That's a problem no matter who does it.

 

[Fletch]

Your being difficult! The investigation into Carter Page predates the Steele dossier by more than a year.....

But they needed it, apparently, to get a warrant to spy on him which kind of leads me to believe that they didn't have enough evidence to do it otherwise, no?

 

[Rexedgar]

Pretty sure Trump won't be using the domestic intelligence community to do his spying on political opponents.



Old habits die hard.

I remember watching that campaign speech/rally, and I took it as sarcasm. Russia if you're listening............. POTUS and candidate had been in trouble before and after for attempting sarcasm....

 

[Rexedgar]

But they needed it, apparently, to get a warrant to spy on him which kind of leads me to believe that they didn't have enough evidence to do it otherwise, no?

You are going to have to brush up without my help....sorry!

 

[Sweden]

If they have been spying on this guy for 3 years and he is still walking around, either they have nothing on him or they are incompetent investigators. Google a Carter Page interview. The guy is incoherent

Incoherence is not a criminal offence. Oh, and the investigators are corrupt rather than merely incompetent.

 

[Cardinal]

I've read the memo. The sources used to obtain the FISA warrant were clearly acting out of political bias and correct vetting procedure was not used on the basis for the warrant.

Seems very clear to me this was a political ploy to use the FBI against a political opponent.


Read the memo. It's available.

I'm curious about your perspective as an LEO on something. Let's say I make a call to the police because my neighbor repeatedly makes too much noise and because his dog poops on my lawn. Due to one reason or another, maybe because local ordnances aren't strong enough, the most you can do is tell the neighbor to knock it off. I make more calls to the police for the same reason. At this point it's established from your repeated visits to my neighbor's house that I hate my neighbor. Then one day I call the police and say I have evidence that the neighbor is dealing drugs, and I can show you the evidence if you come by. So two questions:

1. Do you come to my home to check out the evidence for yourself (or do you even look at the evidence if I come by the police station), bearing in mind that this so-called evidence is coming from a biased source?
2. Let's say the evidence is a video with audio of the neighbor dealing drugs in his back yard. You watch the video. Do you follow up on this evidence in spite of the fact that the evidence came from a biased source?

 

[Greenbeard]

I remember watching that campaign speech/rally, and I took it as sarcasm.

So apparently you missed the part of 2016 when the Russians were hacking Trump's political opponents and Trump was basing his stump speeches during the entire final month of the campaign on the stolen materials.

But yeah, sarcasm. Totally.

 

[Rexedgar]

Why is Carter Page walking around? Easy - because he has committed no crime, despite the best efforts of the Obama regime and its accomplices in the FBI to frame him.

That's one possibility.......Since the memo was renewed under the DJT admin, your dog don't hunt!

 

[Fletch]

You are going to have to brush up without my help....sorry!

In other words, you have no clue. Fair enough.

 

[Fishking]

Is this a joke?

There really is no indication that the warrant was issued improperly or for partisan reasons. That may be the narrative that some are drawing, but it's not supported by the evidence so far.

Meanwhile, there is A LOT of smoke around Trump's campaign and ties to foreign governments, so based on what we know, there's every indication that the surveillance on Carter Page was reasonable and that the proper procedures were followed.

The only joke is your post when you said, "There really is no indication that the warrant was issued improperly or for partisan reasons." That is a joke of epic proportions. It's like you haven't been paying attention to everything that has been coming out over the past few months. It's completely divorced from reality.

 

[Rexedgar]

So apparently you missed the part of 2016 when the Russians were hacking Trump's political opponents and Trump was basing his stump speeches during the entire final month of the campaign on the stolen materials.

But yeah, sarcasm. Totally.

I am not using hindsight! Nor am I a supporter, I just remember thinking that he was lame as a comic at the time of the comment. We have all gotten a lot more knowledge since then, maybe you were using insider knowledge......

 

[Fishking]

A friend of mine had the following to say about the memo; I think it is spot-on.



I've been watching the "hysteria" on the released memo most of the night. From BOTH sides of the MSM isle.


Here's my thoughts on the subject....

Forget the implication that a opposing candidate's staffer was targeted for surveillance, thereby targeting the candidate. Forget that one major party has COMPLETELY flipped regarding the morality of a secret court authorizing surveillance on an American citizen. Here's what EVERY American citizen should be concerned about.....
• A judge "rubber stamped" a warrant for surveillance.
• A duly authorized law enforcement agency requested the warrant under VERY questionable circumstances.
• There are strong implications that the warrant was requested... and surveillance conducted.... based on political bias.

Those 3 things ALONE should concern EVERY American.... left, right, independent, liberal, conservative, or libertarian. The fact alone.... that an American citizen could have his/her civil rights VIOLATED based on political bias is disturbing in the extreme.... this strikes AT THE CORE of our freedoms. The right of dissent or opposition to whatever political party in power is the core of our freedoms. The Republicans had their Watergate.... now the Democrats have this. The one difference.... Watergate was 2-3 individuals.... this is at LEAST 2 GOVERNMENT agencies.
Left or Right.... consider this.... whatever party, Democrat or Republican, in power can squash opposing POV using all the powers that it can bring to bear. That includes the courts.
Whatever our differences in political ideology.... this is something that should be of the greatest concern to EVERY American citizen.
And consider this..... the media.... the supposed "watchdogs" of government abuse.... are completely ignoring the implications of this abuse of power and civil liberties.

And this is why those who lean more towards libertarianism are always calling for these types of mechanism to either not exist, or to be severely limited because it puts the building blocks in place for the next person/or government to abuse it. People think that out government can never turn into something that can be oppressive. I don't know where that trust in governmental power is based in, because it certainly isn't based in history or in human psychology. Yet here we are having people wanting to dump more and more power into a centralized government.

 

[sangha]

Forget the implication that a opposing candidate's staffer was targeted for surveillance, thereby targeting the candidate. Forget that one major party has COMPLETELY flipped regarding the morality of a secret court authorizing surveillance on an American citizen. Here's what EVERY American citizen should be concerned about.....
• A judge "rubber stamped" a warrant for surveillance.
• A duly authorized law enforcement agency requested the warrant under VERY questionable circumstances.
• There are strong implications that the warrant was requested... and surveillance conducted.... based on political bias.

Everything you said above is untrue

 

[Rexedgar]

Incoherence is not a criminal offence. Oh, and the investigators are corrupt rather than merely incompetent.

Isn't this where you are supposed to provide a link or say, "IMO?"

 

[Helix]

It’s like y’all have blinders on, one side used fake evidence to get warrants to illegally spy on the other side.
Will you feel the same if Trump does it to your candidate in the next election since y’all are totally ok with this kind of corruption.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

re-read my post for comprehension.

 

[Fishking]

i support eliminating or significantly regulating FISA. get a real warrant.

however, this memo doesn't do what Republicans hoped that it would do : compromise the investigation so that Trump has an excuse to fire Rosenstein, give Mueller a new boss, and then limit the scope of the investigation by proxy. it's an obvious ploy, and the investigation will continue. if Trump fires Rosenstein now, it will generate the same consequences for Republicans as firing Mueller would.

It doesn't do that 100% but it has moved the ball a significantly down the court for that. It shows an intent by a few well-placed individuals willing to conduct investigations more on political grounds than on factual. What could easily happen now, and this is what I think should be done, is for Trump to tell Mueller he has a month, two months, w/e that is a decent amount of time to still get work done but not long enough to drag it out more than it already has, to wrap it up.

The initial announcement would have all the partisans outraged (because everything is an outrage to them) but as the days passed the idea would become something that was used to being around and eventually, only the rabids would still care about it when the time ran out. There is no need to compromise with the rabids, they will work to undo the election no matter what.

 

[JMR]

I've read the memo. The sources used to obtain the FISA warrant were clearly acting out of political bias and correct vetting procedure was not used on the basis for the warrant.

Seems very clear to me this was a political ploy to use the FBI against a political opponent.


Read the memo. It's available.

Well yes the memo is available, for whatever it's worth. A FISA warrant application is 70 to 80 pages long. How would you know who or how many sources there were? This is of course classified information. Unlike Nunes' memo.
It could seem equally clear that this is a s***storm created to sink the Mueller investigation.

I'm sure there is a next chapter out soon.

 

[Rexedgar]

A friend of mine had the following to say about the memo; I think it is spot-on.



I've been watching the "hysteria" on the released memo most of the night. From BOTH sides of the MSM isle.


Here's my thoughts on the subject....

Forget the implication that a opposing candidate's staffer was targeted for surveillance, thereby targeting the candidate. Forget that one major party has COMPLETELY flipped regarding the morality of a secret court authorizing surveillance on an American citizen. Here's what EVERY American citizen should be concerned about.....
• A judge "rubber stamped" a warrant for surveillance.
• A duly authorized law enforcement agency requested the warrant under VERY questionable circumstances.
• There are strong implications that the warrant was requested... and surveillance conducted.... based on political bias.

Those 3 things ALONE should concern EVERY American.... left, right, independent, liberal, conservative, or libertarian. The fact alone.... that an American citizen could have his/her civil rights VIOLATED based on political bias is disturbing in the extreme.... this strikes AT THE CORE of our freedoms. The right of dissent or opposition to whatever political party in power is the core of our freedoms. The Republicans had their Watergate.... now the Democrats have this. The one difference.... Watergate was 2-3 individuals.... this is at LEAST 2 GOVERNMENT agencies.
Left or Right.... consider this.... whatever party, Democrat or Republican, in power can squash opposing POV using all the powers that it can bring to bear. That includes the courts.
Whatever our differences in political ideology.... this is something that should be of the greatest concern to EVERY American citizen.
And consider this..... the media.... the supposed "watchdogs" of government abuse.... are completely ignoring the implications of this abuse of power and civil liberties.

Color me confused.... I reread your post and am not sure if this is your 'friend's' or your post. If it is your friend, invite them to join the discussion and give us your point of view. Your friend has to believe everything in the memo to believe what you posted.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

It doesn't do that 100% but it has moved the ball a significantly down the court for that. It shows an intent by a few well-placed individuals willing to conduct investigations more on political grounds than on factual. What could easily happen now, and this is what I think should be done, is for Trump to tell Mueller he has a month, two months, w/e that is a decent amount of time to still get work done but not long enough to drag it out more than it already has, to wrap it up.

The initial announcement would have all the partisans outraged (because everything is an outrage to them) but as the days passed the idea would become something that was used to being around and eventually, only the rabids would still care about it when the time ran out. There is no need to compromise with the rabids, they will work to undo the election no matter what.

Mueller will complete the investigation when he has all of the information that he requires.