• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

The importance of an attorney --

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,659
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I've always said that I would always cooperate with law enforcement without benefit of an attorney if I'd done nothing wrong. I've changed my mind.

In the Zimmerman case, he gave his initial statement to police w/o benefit of an attorney. I think, if I were involved in a shooting, I would invoke my right to an attorney in order to clear my head...let the adrenalin rush/backlash pass...and get my facts straight before doing so.

When things are happening lightening-fast as they did in this incident, time becomes compressed. Actions and when they happen become blurred. When I think, "What if it was me?" in this case...and MY statement to police...I would want to be absolutely certain I was including everything that happened. And when one is 'in the heat of recovery' from an attack? I'm not sure it would be in my best interests to be in any hurry to give a statement.

What do you think?
 

sharon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
11,600
Reaction score
1,344
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I've always said that I would always cooperate with law enforcement without benefit of an attorney if I'd done nothing wrong. I've changed my mind.

In the Zimmerman case, he gave his initial statement to police w/o benefit of an attorney. I think, if I were involved in a shooting, I would invoke my right to an attorney in order to clear my head...let the adrenalin rush/backlash pass...and get my facts straight before doing so.

When things are happening lightening-fast as they did in this incident, time becomes compressed. Actions and when they happen become blurred. When I think, "What if it was me?" in this case...and MY statement to police...I would want to be absolutely certain I was including everything that happened. And when one is 'in the heat of recovery' from an attack? I'm not sure it would be in my best interests to be in any hurry to give a statement.

What do you think?
Even if you are innocent get a lawyer and keep your mouth shut.. I have pounded that into my kids.

George couldn't shut up.. he talked to everyone for weeks ....
 

Medusa

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
39,862
Reaction score
7,845
Location
Turkey
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
I've always said that I would always cooperate with law enforcement without benefit of an attorney if I'd done nothing wrong. I've changed my mind.

In the Zimmerman case, he gave his initial statement to police w/o benefit of an attorney. I think, if I were involved in a shooting, I would invoke my right to an attorney in order to clear my head...let the adrenalin rush/backlash pass...and get my facts straight before doing so.

When things are happening lightening-fast as they did in this incident, time becomes compressed. Actions and when they happen become blurred. When I think, "What if it was me?" in this case...and MY statement to police...I would want to be absolutely certain I was including everything that happened. And when one is 'in the heat of recovery' from an attack? I'm not sure it would be in my best interests to be in any hurry to give a statement.

What do you think?
l agree

we need the professionals to protect our rights in a constitutional state.
 

Grim17

Battle Ready
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
30,318
Reaction score
14,360
Location
Southwestern U.S.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The way the English language is twisted and manipulated today, an attorney is a must anytime you are dealing with statements to law enforcement that could have consequences.
 

Porchev

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
3,092
Reaction score
2,491
Location
GA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
In my opinion, if I ever shoot someone (hopefully never), I think all I will say is "I shot out of fear for my life" (which would be the truth), and I will not provide any details until after I talked to a lawyer.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
66,616
Reaction score
37,821
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I've always said that I would always cooperate with law enforcement without benefit of an attorney if I'd done nothing wrong. I've changed my mind.

In the Zimmerman case, he gave his initial statement to police w/o benefit of an attorney. I think, if I were involved in a shooting, I would invoke my right to an attorney in order to clear my head...let the adrenalin rush/backlash pass...and get my facts straight before doing so.

When things are happening lightening-fast as they did in this incident, time becomes compressed. Actions and when they happen become blurred. When I think, "What if it was me?" in this case...and MY statement to police...I would want to be absolutely certain I was including everything that happened. And when one is 'in the heat of recovery' from an attack? I'm not sure it would be in my best interests to be in any hurry to give a statement.

What do you think?
That is indeed a tough call. On the one hand, if you convince law enforcement, and the thereby the state, that you have comitted no crime then you are not immediately arrested and detained until they get around to giving you a hearing. On the other hand, if there is sufficient cause (or in this case political pressure) for the state to charge you anyway then you face no downside for not saying a word.

IMHO, GZ did the right thing by initially relating his reason for shooting TM but tried to give too much detail (precise timeline and a later "walk through"). If the police recall you for a new formal, or more detailed, statement then that is the time to seek legal council.
 

sharon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
11,600
Reaction score
1,344
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
That is indeed a tough call. On the one hand, if you convince law enforcement, and the thereby the state, that you have comitted no crime then you are not immediately arrested and detained until they get around to giving you a hearing. On the other hand, if there is sufficient cause (or in this case political pressure) for the state to charge you anyway then you face no downside for not saying a word.

IMHO, GZ did the right thing by initially relating his reason for shooting TM but tried to give too much detail (precise timeline and a later "walk through"). If the police recall you for a new formal, or more detailed, statement then that is the time to seek legal council.
Its not a tough call at all.. NEVER talk to the police without a lawyer..

Every lawyer would tell you the same thing.
 

americanwoman

dangerously addictive
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
27,014
Reaction score
20,309
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
You have the right to remain silent - use it!

Porchev gave the perfect opinion on what to do.
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,659
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
In my opinion, if I ever shoot someone (hopefully never), I think all I will say is "I shot out of fear for my life" (which would be the truth), and I will not provide any details until after I talked to a lawyer.
It occurs to me that this takes money. Maybe it's true that it takes money to buy justice. Having to pay an attorney probably keeps the majority of people from exercising that right.
 

KevinKohler

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Messages
21,929
Reaction score
9,973
Location
CT
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Quite the shining comendation for our justice system.
 

joko104

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
60,976
Reaction score
21,549
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
In permit-to-carry classes, a common thing taught is if you should ever happen to shoot someone, ALWAYS tell the police you are "so upset" and your heart racing that you cannot think with a clear head - and do NOT talk to police for at least "48 hours" AND not until you have spoken with an attorney. They insist NO EXCEPTIONS to this!

In is the nature of any person to be defensive and tell the best way to recount something possible - meaning getting caught "lying" in minor details, PLUS the brain is NOT a video and audio recorder and will naturally try to fill in gaps to make a complete recount - against then caught "lying" about details. Finally, HOW YOU WORD THINGS matter - A LOT.

For example, a person might THINK saying "I fired a warning shot but he kept coming at me - so only then did I shoot him." You would THINK that shows you did not intend to hurt anyone and obviously had no choice. BUT, in fact, in this state (Florida) while you shooting and killing him might be legal, it is an AUTOMATIC 20 YEARS IN PRISON for "firing a warning shot." No exceptions. Neither probation or lesser sentence even possible. So saying what you THINK helps you, in fact is a confession that causes your conviction.

The reason to using "too emotionally upset" as reason is to avoid "refusing to talk" directly. IF the police demand you come to the station, THEN you say "I won't talk to you until I talk to MY DOCTOR and to a lawyer."

It is sad, but things you say can be twisted, exaggerated or even mis-quoted by police - plus the police are talking about your behavior however they want to - and if there is a prosecution they will likely shift that to make you seem odd, none remorseful, too calm (like you're a cold hearted killer) etc.

Zimmerman is a perfect instance of why do not talk to the police - at least not to the extent he did and not right away. He should have said he was too upset and in too much pain to talk now - and then invoked the 5th /wants a lawyer after this if police just kept pressing him.
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
66,616
Reaction score
37,821
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
It occurs to me that this takes money. Maybe it's true that it takes money to buy justice. Having to pay an attorney probably keeps the majority of people from exercising that right.
According to the Miranda warning you may be able to get an attorney (from the public defender pool) at little or no cost - but if you can afford a better (more experienced/specialized) attorney then you would be wise to do so. The justice that you must buy I often refer to as "just us". ;)
 
Top Bottom