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The impeachment boils down to this.

sjmay said:
Pretty much this....they are cheapning impeachment, because it's easy.
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Trump has a habit of reducing the value of everything he touches. It is one of the consequences this country will suffer from for many, many years.
 
Cope said:
Why wouldn't you need to? If this were an actual "criminal trial" there would be definitions, and there would be a failure to garner a conviction.

But it isnt, its a political mechanism plain and simple. People are mad as hell at Trump and they want him punished (by any means necessary)

Its subjective words over twitter ...
We all know there will be no conviction in the Senate, so is this all a waste of time?
IMO , yes it is.
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You sure about no conviction? By the time of the trial, only 17 republicans will be necessary. And the only punishment left would barring him from future federal office. You don't think there might be 17 republicans ready to be done with Trump forever?
 
vegas giants said:
The reasonable person standard must be applied. Using that trump is guilty
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The Supreme Court has actually taken a very restrictive approach on calling things incitement.
 
sjmay said:
Yep, tell me, how many different ways are there to fight? And take back this government? Cmon, I can wait....
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He is the president. Words matter
 
vegas giants said:
He is the president. Words matter
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Good, so when he says peacefully protest, and WORDS MATTER...then you can easily argue that he didn't incite anything.....
 
sjmay said:
Good, so when he says peacefully protest, and WORDS MATTER...then you can easily argue that he didn't incite anything.....
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You cant incite people for weeks on end, then send protestors over to the Capitol and then throw that in at the end


Way too.late.
 
Cope said:
Why wouldn't you need to? If this were an actual "criminal trial" there would be definitions, and there would be a failure to garner a conviction.

But it isnt, its a political mechanism plain and simple. People are mad as hell at Trump and they want him punished (by any means necessary)

Its subjective words over twitter ...
We all know there will be no conviction in the Senate, so is this all a waste of time?
IMO , yes it is.
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The rule is not that the House can only impeach if they know for a fact the senate will convict. The House was granted these powers for a reason, a scenario has come up twice, at least, where it was proper and necessary. They did their duty. What the senate does is on them.
 
vegas giants said:
You cant incite people for weeks on end, then send protestors over to the Capitol and then throw that in at the end


Way too.late.
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But words matter, so when he says peacefully protest, that matters...does it not?

What you are arguing is that people CHOSE to ignore certain words.....but that's THEIR choice, is it not?
 
sjmay said:
But words matter, so when he says peacefully protest, that matters...does it not?

What you are arguing is that people CHOSE to ignore certain words.....but that's THEIR choice, is it not?
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Yes words matter. Their violence was always their choice. And it was trumps choice to egg them.on for weeks
 
sjmay said:
Good, so when he says peacefully protest, and WORDS MATTER...then you can easily argue that he didn't incite anything.....
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For every time Trump instructed his followers to protest peacefully, he told them 20 times how Democrats in general and specifically were destroying America. That they were going to take away their 1st and 2nd amendment rights. That they were going to open all borders and invite in murderers and rapists, and give them all free housing, food, medical care, and allow them to vote, repeatedly, for Democrat candidates. That they had to fight like hell to take back America.

Yeah, you’re right, WORDS ****ING MATTER.
 
Cope said:
Why wouldn't you need to? If this were an actual "criminal trial" there would be definitions, and there would be a failure to garner a conviction.

But it isnt, its a political mechanism plain and simple. People are mad as hell at Trump and they want him punished (by any means necessary)

Its subjective words over twitter ...
We all know there will be no conviction in the Senate, so is this all a waste of time?
IMO , yes it is.
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TPFKAT fomented an insurrection. I'm happy to keep reminding those who try to rewrite history.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
For every time Trump instructed his followers to protest peacefully, he told them 20 times how Democrats in general and specifically were destroying America. That they were going to take away their 1st and 2nd amendment rights. That they were going to open all borders and invite in murderers and rapists, and give them all free housing, food, medical care, and allow them to vote, repeatedly, for Democrat candidates. That they had to fight like hell to take back America.

Yeah, you’re right, WORDS ****ING MATTER.
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Great, so words matter, so when he said to protest peacefully, he was NOT inciting a riot.

That's all you had to say.
 
sjmay said:
Great, so words matter, so when he said to protest peacefully, he was NOT inciting a riot.

That's all you had to say.
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Years ago, during a port visit in Spain, myself and a few shipmates went to a bullfight.

In order to get into the stadium/arena, we had had to walk past several pens where the bulls were staged until their match. Every one of them appeared to be at ease/calm.

Before each fight, the next bull in line was moved up into a steel chute barely big enough for the bull to squeeze into.

While one bull was giving and getting it’s licks, the next in line was getting his balls tickled with an electric cattle prod. Needless to say, by the time that next bull’s turn came, he was amped up, ready to kick the shit out of the matador.

Do you think, if just before that bull was let loose from the chute, the guy on gate told it to be peaceful it would’ve had any effect on that bull?
 
KLATTU said:
If person A says X and and person B interprets it as Y , where is A's liability for Y.

Traditionally , very little
It's looking the case is for impeachment isn't as strong as first thought.
Comments?
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Actually, it boils down to this:
Cow manure.jpg

Much like the first one.
 
Sand Castle said:
Bottom line, this entire trump matter, requires a full throated, for everyone to see, under oath, debate in the Senate.

Let's call it Impeachment.

This time trump must play on a level playing field.

Witnessed can't be voted away.

GOP Senate jurors can't vote away right and wrong

This is not removing trump from POTUS this is about another offense perpetrated by Donald.

But, this time he will really need to have facts on his side.

No Bill Barr spin, no Collins, oh trump was impeachable, but he learned his lesson.

Additionally, why wouldn't trump supporters want Donald with everyone under oath, why wouldn't you want Donald on the Senate floor telling America the truths he spews.

What a great venue, in front of his wonderful supreme court justice.

Making his fraud case to America while everyone is under oath.

Don't you guys want him to fight for your truth.

I urge trumpians to urge Donald to take the "Stand"
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Debate what? Trump called on them to be peaceful. Evidence is accumulating that the violence was planned well in advance so any claim Trump “encited” the crowd is DOA.
 
vegas giants said:
You cant incite people for weeks on end, then send protestors over to the Capitol and then throw that in at the end


Way too.late.
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The Chinese government can use the same argument against those who led the Hong Kong riots.

It's important that we be very strict about what we consider incitement. Almost all protests have members who turn violent and aggressive. We don't want a system where if you organize a peaceful protest you can be imprisoned for inciting a riot because a few people took things too far.

What we need is evidence that Trump was pleased with the rioting and did nothing to stop it.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
The Chinese government can use the same argument against those who led the Hong Kong riots.

It's important that we be very strict about what we consider incitement. Almost all protests have members who turn violent and aggressive. We don't want a system where if you organize a peaceful protest you can be imprisoned for inciting a riot because a few people took things too far.

What we need is evidence that Trump was pleased with the rioting and did nothing to stop it.
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No we dont
 
RaleBulgarian said:
For every time Trump instructed his followers to protest peacefully, he told them 20 times how Democrats in general and specifically were destroying America. That they were going to take away their 1st and 2nd amendment rights. That they were going to open all borders and invite in murderers and rapists, and give them all free housing, food, medical care, and allow them to vote, repeatedly, for Democrat candidates. That they had to fight like hell to take back America.

Yeah, you’re right, WORDS ****ING MATTER.
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Riiiiight...because we haven't heard that same exact shit coming from the left on a scale that puts anything you're whining about to shame.
 
Bullseye said:
Debate what? Trump called on them to be peaceful. Evidence is accumulating that the violence was planned well in advance so any claim Trump “encited” the crowd is DOA.
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This ain't going away for donald.
 
Fishking said:
Riiiiight...because we haven't heard that same exact shit coming from the left on a scale that puts anything you're whining about to shame.
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Wrong and wronger.

I’d recommend that you work on your banter, but your above post is your best.
 
Bullseye said:
So what?
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Then we agree, the Impeachment trial in the Senate will continue the debate. This time unfortunately for donald the deck is not stacked in his favor, alternate reality will not save him.

This time trump appears guilty of involvement in inciting insurrection, the extent, well it will be fun to watch the debate and presentation of evidence, witnesses, yes witnesses this time, imagine that a trial with witnesses, how novel.

Millions of viewers all over our nation, the world watching, as donald defends the election fraud lie. Watch donald defend 2 months of inflaming his base against the Constitution, rule of law and then the election process using unfounded false claims.

The ongoing momentum of trump's charade being exposed shall play out. This time trump has palpable blood on his hands.

The problem for the GOP, their aiding and abedding of trump will cause them to be dragged through trump's mud.

This does not end well for the psychophants and their leader.

Although, trump has a few days to stop the bleeding. If he stood in front of America and admitted clearly that he has lied about the election, he has purposely lied and inflammed his base, and then he purposely ramped up his rhetoric in order to frenzy his base and now feels shame for this and will accept appropriate recourse for his actions, well it would become difficult to continue Impeachment.

You see all this, everything we are discussing, it's all on trump and his enablers.
 
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