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The Holocaust Was The Jews Fault

GySgt said:
Would these be the same prophets that think appeasing a determined enemy away will work, because it worked for American Civil Rights?
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When did the American Civil Rights movement appease any one?
 
Gardener said:
"State terrorism". It's a nice Nice buzzphrase and oft repeated by those for whom such language acts like rhetorical bread crumbs, easiliy identified back to the originating source. What does it mean, though, and how is it offered if not to justify terrorism? After all, the phrase is used ad nauseum by those who wish to influence people into thinking there was some sort of moral equivalency between protective actions undertaken by Israeland the intentional actions involving selecting innocent Jewish men, women and children in order to play the game of "Let's how far we can scatter their body bits through explosive means". Yes, killing somebody intentionally must be the same as killing somebody unintentionally, and killing an innocent is the same as killing somebody who has already murdered.

In order for there to be equivalency, you would have to establish that the Israel government somehow targets random Palestinians for the purpose of murdering them. Otherwise, you are simply repeating a rhetorical ruse that has very little use other than to obfuscate the very meaning of the word terrorism.

If it weren't for the fact that Chomsky, Cole, and any of a number of the other cookie cutter authoritarian leftists use this term, would you have thought it up on your own? Do you not make any distinctions in the situations surrounding death to such a degree that accidental death is just the same as premeditated murder?
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Ohh I see, I get it now. What you are saying, it's OK for the state to murder thousands of civilians but not OK when a terrorist organization, independent of the state does the same thing or responds in kind. Gee, glad I understand your views. That's what I call a double standard and if it's one thing that I hate is somebody telling me "Do as I say, not as I do." I don't think terrorism is justified by terrorist organizations or by the state. Generally speaking, if you were to dig for the facts, those states that have been targetted by terrorists have engaged in terrorism themselves. Their is no question or denying that. You don't see Switzerland getting hit by terrorists now do you? You know why? Because they don't go around ****ing with other people, thats why. You go around ****ing with other people, eventually they get tired of it and they start ****ing back and that's what happenned to America. America went around messing with other people to make more money or protect it's economic interests and people got tired of it so we got nailed on September 11. You need get that **** through head. We aren't innocent and neither are the Israelies. And you know why Israel is targetted by terrorists? Because in order to create the state of Israel they had to engage in terrorism as well and so organizations formed and responded to Israel in kind. And you remember what Timothy McVeigh said after they sentenced him to death, "Government teaches by example." He was right. America stop messing with people and you won't have to worry about people coming over here and knocking down WTC buildings. Every time this country gets involved overseas, it's about money or oil. It's never about doing the right thing, never. In my time in the military, we ignored genocides and people that needed genuine help because their was no money in it for us and foreigners see that and dislike that. And I don't blame them.
 
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Gandhi>Bush said:
Let's see...
Nothing.
Nothing.
Nothing.
Nothing.
Nothing.
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You are done. Hide behind bullshit. Semantics. Bunch of nothings there G. I speak, at times, obliquely, to the person I post to, like you. You knew what I was saying, yet you choose to make it appear to the public something different. No biggie. You can infer what I implied. That you choose to go this way exposes your weak character. Your inabitility to address the subject. Or are you just stupid? I would not post to you so if I thought so. But I've been wrong before.

People give you scenerios, that you always weasel out of. Try this:

You are Jewish living in Israel. Your only children, a teen son and daughter, have just been blow up in a Pizzaria. You happen to be on a rooftop and see through the scope the men you know have ochestrated this event. The planner and the bomb maker. For sure. No doubt. You will not take those shots? If not you are a fool. And by your mantra the more so because they will do it again. If you don't take them many more innocent deaths will be on your hands. Go offer them peace, fool. That's what they want. They will use you to further their cause. Saying, "see here, this man who wants peace? We should all hear his words." And while they use you to gather support and apeasment for thier cause, they will continue to plot to blow up the next batch of children. Boom. All the time you think you are getting somewhere. You speak out of your ass. Because of you good nature (assuming here) they gain ground at your expense. 18 year old boy. You have no idea the evil in this world. Sheltered little boy.

I said you don't have kids. I assume such because not to long ago you reached your 18th birthday. Yet you made some smart remark about me knowing wether or not you had kids. You did not deny that you did not. You are playing semantics little boy. 18 year old boy. So do you have kids or not? You friggin don't. Your little semantic ploy, while working for the public, tells me much about your character. Copy/paste waits.



I think you're pretty.

So does your face.
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Not bad.
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Gandhi>Bush said:
I'll make the same deal with everyone else that I made with this individual. If you can find where I blamed the holocaust on the Jews, I'll email you my scrotum. That was the deal, and its still on the table.

I never said it was the Jew's fault. I'm saying they did nothing to stop it.

If you feel that that is a historical inaccuracy, correct me. Do that, and I'll retract my statement.
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Of course they did something to stop it. They died by the millions, Hitler plainly stated that his goal was to kill all the jews in Europe. Hitler gave it the old college try. To state that the jews were some how responsible for their own deaths is pure BS. If Hitler had succeeded in his goal to destroy the Jews in Europe, that certainly would have stopped it, as you say.

Watched a show on the History channel tonight about Hitler. it was very revealing. Hitler condemned himself out of his own mouth over and over.
 
FreeThinker said:
Thats right ladies and gentlemen! You heard it right from the mouth of Ghadi himself!!!! It was the Jews own inaction that caused 6 million of them to be beaten to death, gassed, burned alive, shot, stabbed, burried alive, and starved to death!
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First flaw. There is nop evidence to prove that 6 million jews were killed.

Wow! All those years of hearing about how the holocaust was Hilter's fault were wrong!
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Are you claiming that the stuff taught in western schools is completely informed with objective conclusions based on an indepth unbiased analysis of history?

That's obviously not the case, so I wouldn't go around preaching the things you've "heard" to be the truth.

All those pictures of German soldiers throwing babies up against walls to kill them in front of their mothers were photoshopped! Amazing!
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What pictures? Where are they? Can you show them to anyone? Can you show me, or provide one picture that shows German soldiers throwing babies against walls?
 
TimmyBoy said:
Ohh I see, I get it now. What you are saying, it's OK for the state to murder thousands of civilians but not OK when a terrorist organization, independent of the state does the same thing or responds in kind. Gee, glad I understand your views. That's what I call a double standard and if it's one thing that I hate is somebody telling me "Do as I say, not as I do." I don't think terrorism is justified by terrorist organizations or by the state. Generally speaking, if you were to dig for the facts, those states that have been targetted by terrorists have engaged in terrorism themselves. Their is no question or denying that. You don't see Switzerland getting hit by terrorists now do you? You know why? Because they don't go around ****ing with other people, thats why. You go around ****ing with other people, eventually they get tired of it and they start ****ing back and that's what happenned to America. America went around messing with other people to make more money or protect it's economic interests and people got tired of it so we got nailed on September 11. You need get that **** through head. We aren't innocent and neither are the Israelies. And you know why Israel is targetted by terrorists? Because in order to create the state of Israel they had to engage in terrorism as well and so organizations formed and responded to Israel in kind. And you remember what Timothy McVeigh said after they sentenced him to death, "Government teaches by example." He was right. America stop messing with people and you won't have to worry about people coming over here and knocking down WTC buildings. Every time this country gets involved overseas, it's about money or oil. It's never about doing the right thing, never. In my time in the military, we ignored genocides and people that needed genuine help because their was no money in it for us and foreigners see that and dislike that. And I don't blame them.
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Typical prattle from the doctrinaire leftist perspective -- justify terrorism while claiming you aren't justifying it, repeat the smple minded platitudes you read on anti Israeli sites, disply absolutely no sense of moral reasoning and sit back safe in the knowlege that you have conformed to the Marxist perspective where the world can only be understood through the template wherein people are clearly either colonialist oppressors or indiginous oppressed, with the understanding that once a group has been preapproved for you as "oppressed", their resulting actions are therefore justifiable. Forget the fact that Palestinians are indoctrinated from childhood in a culture of hate, that Palestinian women are oppressed to the degree that they can be murdered by their fathers or brothers if they compromise the family "honor" by being raped, that they were Nazi collaborators in ww2, and that their culture represents the very antithesis of liberal democratic principles. If the uber-left says it is so, it must be so.......
 
Gardener said:
Typical prattle from the doctrinaire leftist perspective -- justify terrorism while claiming you aren't justifying it, repeat the smple minded platitudes you read on anti Israeli sites, disply absolutely no sense of moral reasoning and sit back safe in the knowlege that you have conformed to the Marxist perspective where the world can only be understood through the template wherein people are clearly either colonialist oppressors or indiginous oppressed, with the understanding that once a group has been preapproved for you as "oppressed", their resulting actions are therefore justifiable. Forget the fact that Palestinians are indoctrinated from childhood in a culture of hate, that Palestinian women are oppressed to the degree that they can be murdered by their fathers or brothers if they compromise the family "honor" by being raped, that they were Nazi collaborators in ww2, and that their culture represents the very antithesis of liberal democratic principles. If the uber-left says it is so, it must be so.......
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The only person that is justifying terrorism is you. You think it is OK for the state to murder thousands or millions of innocent people who done no wrong but not OK when independent, stateless organizations give the state or the terrorist nation a dose of it's own medicine. This is a double standard and it is why you can't be taken very seriously. Another interesting thing reading your post, you say I am a leftist, yet I am opposed to abortion and I advocate free market enterprise rather than socialism and to keep government as small as possible. I would think this would make me lean more towards the right rather than left. It's perfectly fair to demand the US government to hold itself to the same standards that it holds others. The US government has not been doing that. It has been holding people to one standard while holding itself to a lower standard which is unacceptable and most people will reject this double standard as well and the US won't be taken very seriously either when it claims it is "fight a war on terror." Few people outside the US take the US "war on terror" seriously because the US has engaged in terrorism itself. As a matter of fact, I remember when I was in Bosnia, how alot of foreigners celebrated, threw parties when September 11 happenned. They said, that the US got a dose of it's own medicine and what comes around, goes around. And it will keep going that way until Americans demand better from their government. The use of force by the US governnment in an attempt to stop terrorism will only increase rather than decrease terrorism. CIA analysts have already factually concluded that the US use of force in Iraq has made terrorism stronger, the world a less safe place and terrorism a more dangerous force to deal with. These are the facts and the facts speak for themselves and cannot be legitmately disputed.
 
Another thing I would like to point out, was the anger, rage and patriotism that most Americans felt after September 11. Now, multiply the number of deaths on September 11 by say 3 to 5 times and remember those feelings that Americans had on September 11 and you will know and understand how others in the world feel when America bombs countries for money and oil. In alot of countries, things bigger than September 11 happen on a daily basis sometimes supported by the US, sometimes by a different powerful country. But whenever we bomb others for money or oil, generally, they react with the same anger and indignation that many Americans did after September 11. Many foreigners legitimately feel, that the only reason why the US ever sends troops or bombers somewhere is to protect it's economic interests. It's never done to do the right thing, only done, to protect America's interests.
 
TimmyBoy said:
The only person that is justifying terrorism is you. You think it is OK for the state to murder thousands or millions of innocent people who done no wrong but not OK when independent, stateless organizations give the state or the terrorist nation a dose of it's own medicine. This is a double standard and it is why you can't be taken very seriously. .
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"Thousands or millions of people"........... "Who *done no* wrong".....

Yes, I'm so very worried that I will be the person who isn't taken seriously here.
 
Gardener said:
"Thousands or millions of people"........... "Who *done no* wrong".....

Yes, I'm so very worried that I will be the person who isn't taken seriously here.
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Heh, well I wouldn't be worried either if I was you.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
When did the American Civil Rights movement appease any one?
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Since they weren't facing a killing machine and a determined enemy, appeasement wasn't an issue. They knew they could march, yell, and rally as long as they wanted and they weren't in any danger of being burned alive or shot and thrown into a mass grave.
 
TimmyBoy said:
The use of force by the US governnment in an attempt to stop terrorism will only increase rather than decrease terrorism. CIA analysts have already factually concluded that the US use of force in Iraq has made terrorism stronger, the world a less safe place and terrorism a more dangerous force to deal with. These are the facts and the facts speak for themselves and cannot be legitmately disputed.
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Would this be the same agency that has produced reports that have said the opposite? You should realize that the Agency is made up of thousands and thousands of analysts and agents. Just because some analysts have said what you want to hear, does not make it so. The intelligence community always offers consistency by doing as they always do - covering their asses. Every so often, National Intelligence Reports that are released reveal a bleak picture regarding the future that counteracts the reality of military reports and current events. Why? Because intel bureaucrats don’t want to be blamed if things go wrong. There’s nothing safer than assuming failure and they are notorious for it in Iraq. I've seen this sort of thing since 1993.

The overwhelming majority of the intel world shows that Radical Islam has taken a beating from Chad to Lebanon to Indonesia. For an in your face example of how desperate the terrorists are...look to Bali, Jordan, and London. After suffering devastating losses around the world, Islamic terror networks are attempting to return to the offensive, to prove they are still viable. Their targets, throughout the decade before 9/11, were on military installations and personnel. The targets they have recently struck illuminate their weakness and rage, not an intelligent global strategy. Far from striking major governmental or military targets, the terrorists have been reduced to sloven assassinations and, now, the calculated mass murder of young people.

They are being hunted by Allied governments and Muslim governments alike. Where we are losing is the IO war. Radical Islam is winning this, because they have an advantage. Armed with an ideological foundation, making the leap to Islamic-inspired terrorism requires only a charismatic leader for direction, continued social pressures to solidify the will, and the means (weapons, money) to conduct terrorist acts. They are deep rooted within their societies and Radical Islam grows where socio-economic conditions are poor; governments are repressive and unable to provide essential social services, such as providing adequate oversight of their educational system….or have allowed / sanctioned Radical Islamic curricula. This is where a huge part of this "War on Terror" is "indirectly" being waged.
 
TimmyBoy said:
It seems you can be out of line sometimes about some of your comments towards Muslims.
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Show me one comment I have posted that castigates all Muslims. The only Muslims I have a problem with Timmy, are those that would love to kill me. Either show me explicit disparaging comments that I have posted against Muslims in-toto per your quote above, or withdraw your false allegation forthwith.

Gandhi>Bush said:
Let's pretend that Hitler was killed in the explosion... Would National Socialism have withered and died, or would it have found a glorious Martyr?
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Let's pretend you are intelligent. The whole point of my post (which you obviously missed) was that both German civilian and German military personel attempted both nonviolent and violent resistence against the Third Reich and both avenues failed. Cease your silly pretensions and address reality.

Gandhi>Bush said:
Ouch....
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I have only just scratched the surface Mr. Gandhi.
 
Tashah said:
Show me one comment I have posted that castigates all Muslims. The only Muslims I have a problem with Timmy, are those that would love to kill me. Either show me explicit disparaging comments that I have posted against Muslims in-toto per your quote above, or withdraw your false allegation forthwith.
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I will not withdraw what you would call a "false" allegation. I remember you making a rather offensive comment about Islamic civilization treating women terribly. Women get treated bad in all societies, some more than others, but the fact of the matter is, contrary to popular belief, Islamic civilization has granted more rights to women long before Western civilization. And women are generally treated bad due to popular culture that goes against what any religion may represent or teach. The Islamic religion actually treats women better than the Christian religion. Not to mention, that the foundation of Western civilization came from Islamic civilization. Advances in mathematics and astronomy are good examples. It's like you see sucide bombers coming from Islamic nations and therefore people make the false assumption that Islam teaches sucide bombing is OK, or you get some fundamentalist who claims that Islam teaches sucide bombing is OK and then those in the West assume that this fundamentalist represents what Islam is truly about. And you got more religious fundamentalists here in the West than you do in the Islamic World, both Jewish and Christians who are more fundamentalist in their views than most Muslims. And you must remember that Islam has the largest and fastest growing religion in the world and it isn't because Islam supposedly teaches that sucide bombing is OK or good or that treating women bad is OK or good. Their is a good reason why Islam is the largest and fastest growing religion in the world. It is because it teaches that all people, whether it be man or woman is equal before God. Really, if a Jew or Christian really wants to have a better understanding of their own religion, they should study Islam.
 
Tashah said:
Let's pretend you are intelligent.
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/Mod mode

:smash: Allright, let's clean it up around here. Personal attacks and insults should be left to the professionals, namely me. And Galenrox on a good day. Now while I understand your feelings towards Gandhi, the pacifist anti-semite, do try to keep this to logical, respectful debate. I'll not stand for this.

/Mod mode


(while teacher is not a mod in real life, you are encouraged to ignore this disclaimer and infer that he actually is a mod with great powers and an wrath terrible to behold)
 
Auftrag said:
First flaw. There is nop evidence to prove that 6 million jews were killed.
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Oh goody, another Nazi. I get to bust out all my old Nazi material on him like it was new. Why just yesterday I gave ol' Ayran a message in one of my posts in case he still comes here just to read. It wasn't nice.

Let's fire this up Nazi. Have you met Hitler's dog yet?
 
TimmyBoy said:
Their is a good reason why Islam is the largest and fastest growing religion in the world.
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Yes, there is a reason, but it is much more basic than that. The reason Islam is growing so fast is that they produce lots and lots and lots of children.

I would suggest you take a women's studies course or two some day, and if you ever do, I would also suggest you ask your teacher/professor about the relationship between women's status and birth rate.
 
teacher said:
You are done. Hide behind bullshit. Semantics. Bunch of nothings there G. I speak, at times, obliquely, to the person I post to, like you. You knew what I was saying, yet you choose to make it appear to the public something different. No biggie. You can infer what I implied. That you choose to go this way exposes your weak character. Your inabitility to address the subject. Or are you just stupid? I would not post to you so if I thought so. But I've been wrong before.
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Nothing again.

There you go again. I do not log on to this website to discuss my character.

People give you scenerios, that you always weasel out of. Try this:

You are Jewish living in Israel. Your only children, a teen son and daughter, have just been blow up in a Pizzaria. You happen to be on a rooftop and see through the scope the men you know have ochestrated this event. The planner and the bomb maker. For sure. No doubt. You will not take those shots?
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I do not own a rifle, nor would I buy one even in such a case. And no, I would not take those shots. They are the murderers, not me. If I had lost these children, I think I would be more inclined to mourn death rather than orchestrate more of it. What would such killing solve? Would give me peace of mind? No, for me I would find no peace in such an action. Would it in any way stop this from happening again? For a time, perhaps, but in the long run I do not think so. In this situation, these men are seen as heroes. By killing them, they become martyrs. Such actions would only strengthen that movement. I would climb down off of that roof. I would make sure the authorities were aware of the prescence of these men. Considering that I have "No doubt" of their guilt, I must be able to make a case against them, yes? I would climb down off of that roof and identify myself as the father of two children that these men helped murder.

If not you are a fool. And by your mantra the more so because they will do it again. If you don't take them many more innocent deaths will be on your hands. Go offer them peace, fool. That's what they want. They will use you to further their cause. Saying, "see here, this man who wants peace? We should all hear his words." And while they use you to gather support and apeasment for thier cause, they will continue to plot to blow up the next batch of children. Boom. All the time you think you are getting somewhere. You speak out of your ass. Because of you good nature (assuming here) they gain ground at your expense.
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I would not allow myself to be used as a facade of peace in the name of death. Period.

18 year old boy. You have no idea the evil in this world. Sheltered little boy.
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You know nothing of my life. I would appreciate it immensely if you would not pretend otherwise.

I said you don't have kids. I assume such because not to long ago you reached your 18th birthday. Yet you made some smart remark about me knowing wether or not you had kids. You did not deny that you did not. You are playing semantics little boy. 18 year old boy. So do you have kids or not? You friggin don't. Your little semantic ploy, while working for the public, tells me much about your character. Copy/paste waits.
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Here comes the Copy/Paste:

So do you have kids or not? You friggin don't.

You asked a question that you know the answer to. Then you answer it. Why should I answer it as well? It is the correct answer after all. I do think it is incredibly redundant to ask a question you know the answer to, and even more so to answer it for me before I get the chance, but okay. This isn't a big deal to me.

I don't have loin fruit running around.

Suffice?
 
GySgt said:
Since they weren't facing a killing machine and a determined enemy, appeasement wasn't an issue. They knew they could march, yell, and rally as long as they wanted and they weren't in any danger of being burned alive or shot and thrown into a mass grave.
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They didn't appease anyone. Period.
 
Tashah said:
Let's pretend you are intelligent. The whole point of my post (which you obviously missed) was that both German civilian and German military personel attempted both nonviolent and violent resistence against the Third Reich and both avenues failed. Cease your silly pretensions and address reality.
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With respect,

By 1944 (year of the assassination attempt) how many of your people had died?

By 1942 (year the Society of the White Rose was founded) how many of your people had died?

Far too many.

The Warsaw Ghetto uprising was in 1943, and I addressed that resistance. I believe it was far too late. The argument of hindsight is 20/20 of course stands. There is much that should have been done in response to the rise of anti-semitism in all of Europe, not just Germany, by many many many parties. Do I think America could have done more? Yes. Europe could have done more? Yes. Do I think Neville Chamberlain could have done more? Hell yes. Do I think the Jews themselves could have done more? Yes. And I believe that all of this should have happened before millions of people had been murdered.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
They didn't appease anyone. Period.
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You dodged the point.

Appeasement isn't an issue with regards to civil rights against a government that is not out to kill or terrorize you. You may march and shout until your throat bleeds and you won't have to face a firing squad. There is a lot of security and comfort knowing that you will not be killed for your beliefs.

The Jews during the Holocaust had no such security and comfort.
 
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