The Holocaust Exaggerated

[dsanthony]

Actually George H.W. Bush sent the marines in to keep the peace and Clinton had them run.

I stand corrected.

 

[dsanthony]

True but none of the others (from what I remember) reached the amount of dead as the Jewish did.

(Somalia?)

I know that sounded cold but face it we live in a world that really doesn’t care.
I believe when Genocide rears it head it should be the responsibility of the Free World to destroy it. But hell that’s just me...

The one I see as the most preventable, Rwanda should have never happened..

I don't usually use Wikipedia as a source, so don't trust these numbers, but I'm certain they're in the ballpark.

27,000,000-72,000,000 - People's Republic of China (1949-1975) under Mao Zedong [1]

15,000,000[2] - 31,000,000 Democides (1933 -1945) of Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler

3,000,000[citation needed] - 30,000,000 - War crimes of Imperial Japan, especially in China and other Asian regions, 1930's-1945, under Hideki Tojo and others. See also Japanese war crimes. [3]

5,000,000 - 30,000,000 - Congo Free State (1877 - 1908) under King Leopold II of Belgium.

4,000,000 - 50,000,000 - Soviet Union (1924-1953) under Joseph Stalin[4]

2,000,000–3,000,000 - Cambodia (1975-1979) under Pol Pot

1,000,000–3,000,000 Armenian Massacres (1895-1923) . Most cited number is 1.5 million. Includes:
30,000–300,000 - Hamidian (First Armenian) Massacre (1895-1896)
6,000–30,000 - 1909
600,000–2,000,000 - Second Armenian Massacre (1915-1918)
250,000–500,0000 - (1919-1923)

937,000 - Genocide in Rwanda (Rwanda, 1994)

800,000–1,000,000 - India/Pakistan Partition, (1947-1948)

~400,000 - Ustasha/Independent State of Croatia genocide of Serbs, Jews, Roma people during World War II (1941-1945)

100,000-200,000 - Jasenovac concentration camp in Croatia

300,000 - Uganda (1971-1979) under Idi Amin

250,000–1,000,000 - Indonesia (1965-1966) under President Suharto (anti-communist purges).

182,000 - Iraq (1986-1989) under Saddam Hussein, see also Al-Anfal Campaign

175,000 Yugoslavia (1944-1948) Anti-german purge by Josip Broz Tito's Partisans.

150,000 - 300,000 East Timor (1970's) under President Suharto

130,000-200,000 - Guatemala (1962-1996), under Rios Montt and others see also civil war and highland massacres

40,000–100,000 - Namibia (1904-1908). See also Herero massacre

30,000 - Haiti (1964 - 1971) under François "Papa Doc" Duvalier

10,000–30,000 - Argentina's Dirty War, (Argentina, 1976 - 1983)

~8,000 - Srebrenica massacre (Srebrenica, Bosnia and Herzegovina, 1995)

3,000 - Chile (1973 - 1990) under Augusto Pinochet

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-wars-and-disasters-by-death-toll

 

[cherokee]

Who's to say if they are or not.

You also have to take in account the true numbers of those killed because of their race (genocide) as to those killed because for other reasons.

I know at times Wikipedia posts tend to lump things together. An example of this would be to take battlefield causalities and claim them as genocidal causalities.

Whatever the numbers are their is no excuse the world can hide behind for allowing it. I'm not too keen on actors and politics but clooneys speech to the UN over Dafur did impress me..



The United States has called it genocide. For [the U.N.], it's called ethnic cleansing but make no mistake, it is the first genocide of the 21st century and if it continues unchecked, it will not be the last.

Now, my job is to come here today and to beg you on behalf of the millions of people that will die -- and make no mistake, they will die -- for you to take real and effective measures to put and end to this. Of course, it's complex but when you see entire villages raped and killed, well poisoned and the filled with the bodies of it's villagers then all complexities disappear and it comes down to right and wrong. It's not getting better it's getting much much worse. It is only the international community that can help us.

Now, I know that there are members of you here, for what I'm sure, are sensible reasons, have failed to use leverage at times to get the peacekeepers on the ground but we now have a date. The date is September 30th. The 1st of October will leave these people with nothing. Whatever the reason it's not good enough.

On October 1st, it won't just be the Janjaweed murdering and raping with impunity or Minnawi's SLA slaughtering the fir[sic] tribes. With no protection, all the aid workers will leave immediately and the 2.8 million refugees who depend on that aid will die. Egland[sic] estimates 100,000 a month [will die]. So, after September 30th, you won't need the U.N. You will simply need men with shovels and bleached white linen and headstones.

In many ways, it's unfair -- but it is never the less true -- that this genocide will be on your watch. How you deal with it will be your legacy. Your Rawanda. Your Cambodia. Your Auschwitz. We were brought up to believe that the U.N. was formed to ensure that The Holocaust could never happen again. We believe in you so strongly. We need you so badly. We've come so far. We're one 'yes' away from ending this. And, if not the U.N., then who? Time is of the essence.

 

[dsanthony]

As I said, Clinton ran like a little girl out of Somalia, and now libs want to send troops into another african country? Not likely. And, the terrors in Darfur are no greater than the mass graves, murders and torture in Hussein's Iraq. When Clooney supports the action to remove the mass murderer in Iraq, then maybe we can look at this african mess.

In my opinion, Africa is too big a mess to try to fix. Rwanda, Somalia, Congo, Uganda and now Darfur? I wouldn't send a single US soldier there.

 

[jujuman13]

I think this thread has reached a point where by reasoning it is impossible to get AUFTAG to change his mind and accept anything other than his own beliefs.
The easiest way is like AUFAG, simply stop posting, perhaps with some good fortune we may never hear any more of his pointless ramblings.

 

[cherokee]

As I said, Clinton ran like a little girl out of Somalia, and now libs want to send troops into another african country? Not likely. And, the terrors in Darfur are no greater than the mass graves, murders and torture in Hussein's Iraq. When Clooney supports the action to remove the mass murderer in Iraq, then maybe we can look at this african mess.

In my opinion, Africa is too big a mess to try to fix. Rwanda, Somalia, Congo, Uganda and now Darfur? I wouldn't send a single US soldier there.

I agree Clinton was a pus and so were alot of people here when CNN showed the video. I would have leveled the city killing adid and ALL his people.

Well I see your opinion as being wrong, You have countries that beg for our support, Besides who said it would be only the US?

 

[Morrow]

I’ve read, from seemingly reliable sources, that the number of Jews actually killed was about 3-4 million. But the total, 11 million, being the same. The missing 2-3 millions were mostly poles. I’ve also seen this refuted.

The Nazis were a testament to German efficiency, and kept very good records. Unfortunately, regarding the holocaust, they encrypted and hid a lot of these records. This was because if they were caught they wanted to avoid prosecution. And as the enemy advanced they did a good job destroying their records. So all we can so is count how many people were in Europe before 1939, and how many were there six years later. Who’s missing? About 11 million people from eastern Europe. Although we should keep in mind we did get a lot of information from Wehrmacht officers. By the end of the way many Wehrmacht Field Marshals were not sympathetic to his Hitler, in fact they were trying to kill him. They were very cooperative with providing information about the holocaust, although it was largely hidden from them they did know how many Jews and other undesirables they rounded up and handed over to the SS.

For those of you don’t know the Wehrmacht, the German Army, was very separate from the SS, who conducted the holocaust. The SS did a good job about making sure that most Germans and Army personnel, even High ranking officers, didn’t know the extent what was going on. They knew people were being executed, but not how and how many.

As I understand it the final solution was suggested by Himmler, leader of the SS, in about 1940. The RSHA was a subordinate unit to the SS, so the idea did not originate there. But mass killings had been going on for some time. There were two policy problems that prompted Himmler’s suggestion. One was that moving the Jews out of German territory wasn’t working. Because every time they moved somewhere Germany took it over. The second was the reality of human psychology. Even the Waffen-SS can’t execute 600 men women and children and remain psychologically stable. There were a lot of problem with the death squads operating in eastern Europe actually doing what they were sent there to do. So more mechanized ways of execution had to be devised. But zyclon-B was not the only method. It is also easy to simply work someone to death. Little food and back breaking manual labor, it doesn’t take long.

So take into account the death squads, random executions and massacres, the work camp, the concentration camps, the prisons, the death camps, death from transit, death from starvation, death from old age, death from no medical care, and do it millions of people, a huge percentage of them are going to die.

I’m not going to say that being a National Socialist is wrong, every political philosophy can have merit. Indeed National Socialism offered hope to a shattered people, improved their standard of living (up to 1943 that is) and took Germany back to the top of the scientific world. And I have to say I think the Waffen-SS were the best troops ever to walk the surface of the planet, from a strictly military perspective. In World War II the Allies did their share of evil, the bombing of Dresden, and the ridiculous farce of the Nuremberg trials. Many educated men with nothing to prove say it was 11 million and I believe them. The Holocaust isn’t just the camps, it is everyone the Nazis executed or allowed to die because of substandard conditions.

I would suggest that the Holocaust, nor its number are in error. The error was the thinking that caused it. You can separate killing from the future of National Socialism if you like, but you cannot separate it from the past.




By the way. If you speak German I suggest you try to find a documentary simply called The SS. It contains a series of interviews with former SS troops, from all three branches main sub groups. There is an English translation, but I haven’t been able to obtain a copy.