• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

The Holocaust Exaggerated

Auftrag

Banned
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
465
Reaction score
1
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I am interested to hear the debate/refutation. As most people believe National Socialists deny the holocaust, what I am asserting here is not that the "holocaust" was a lie, but that it was exaggerated.

There was a state policy of ethnic cleansing initiated by the Reich central Security Office. As a National Socialist, I find it intolerable that this can be denied.

The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that the SS instigated these policies and that jews and other undesirables were executed. Not even the jews can create so much "anti-evidence." To claim they could is ridiculous quite frankly. Plus Hoess admitted in his testimony that there were gas chambers...

However, the scale of this so called "holocaust" is what is deniable. They claim 6 million jews were killed plus 4 million others. if you break down the mathamatics of that then you can see it's patently absurd.

The policy for ethnic cleansing of this nature wasn't introduced until 1942 which meant that in the space of 3 years, assuming for argument sake that 1 million people had died between 1933 and 1942 (although it wasn't state policy to execute undisirables), 9 million people were killed by the Reich while at the same time fighting a war on three different fronts...

There were 3 major extermination camps with perhaps 6 gas chambers at the most. If, as these historians claim, the majority of these undesirables were gassed (let's say 7 million) that would mean having to gas 6500 people a day, 365 days of the year. Now these gas chambers could only fit 200 people in them, so in order to gas that many people you would need 32 hours in a day.

Furthermore, even if they could kill 6500 people a day they would have to dispose of the bodies, meaning they would have to incinerate 200-400 bodies an hour. If you have been to Auszwitz, which I have, you will clearly see that this is just not possible with the "equipment" they had, and Auszwitz was the biggest of the three extermination camps, so if they couldn't do it there, they wouldn't have been able to do it anywhere else.

I'd also like to point you to Rudolf Hoess terstimony at the Nuremburg Trials where he explains the amount of daily arrivals and they were not 6500 a day. In fact, they didn't arrive dially, the trains came once a week, so it makes the whole mathematics of this 10 million even more impossible.

All this without menioning that within the same period of time, perhaps from 1941, the state had to execute 2 million other people without the use of the gas chambers.

The claim is widly exagerated. I would extimate that perhaps 1.5 million people were killed in total over the 12 years Hitler was in power.
 
Lets say for the sake of arguement that you are right about the #'s being overstated. Is 1.5 million murders any more justifyable?
 
Lachean said:
Lets say for the sake of arguement that you are right about the #'s being overstated. Is 1.5 million murders any more justifyable?

In what sense, justifiable?
 
Auftrag said:
In what sense, justifiable?

Quite simply, since you are an overt National Socialist, what is the purpose of this thread?
 
Lachean said:
Quite simply, since you are an overt National Socialist, what is the purpose of this thread?

Well, clearly it's to discuss the monumental lie perpetuated by western liberal democracies against National Socialism.

Why has this lie been perpetuated for so long and for what purpose is it perpetuated?

But I will answer your question if your more clear about what the question is?
 
Lachean said:
Lets say for the sake of arguement that you are right about the #'s being overstated. Is 1.5 million murders any more justifyable?

First of all, no serious historian has asserted all '6 million were sent to the gas chambers' for many decades now, the number comes from the Soviets' early very rough estimates; most of the big camps were in Poland.

The '10 million' is an estimate of how many they actually deliberately murdered through various methods, like shooting, etc., so all he's done is build up his own little straw man to knock down.
 
Lachean said:
Quite simply, since you are an overt National Socialist, what is the purpose of this thread?

his purpose is to belittle the holocaust in order to 'revise' Hitler's and Nazi Germany's excreable modern image. It's purely a deliberate propoganda game. This particular scam started in the early 1980's, with the co-option of IHR's mailing list by Nazis; 'IHR' being Institute For Historical Review, an academic journal that went bankrupt, and was bought out.
 
Picaro said:
First of all, no serious historian has asserted all '6 million were sent to the gas chambers'

Well, the estimation isn't that 6 million jews were gassed, but about 7 million undesirables were.

I will concede that it could have been less, but even if you took off 2 or 3 million from that estimation then it still, mathematically speaking, is impossible. Not to mention that these 2 or 3 million would have to have been killed somwhere and somehow...

The '10 million' is an estimate of how many they actually deliberately murdered through various methods, like shooting, etc., so all he's done is build up his own little straw man to knock down.

I have accepted that some were shot etc. If you actually read my post you will see. I admit I have made estimations, but no matter how you work it out it is still mathematically impossible for it to have happened.

I mean, fighting a war on three fronts and then exterminating 10 million people, at least for arguments sake 5 million in 3 years, which is when the policy was introduced.

That would then mean that 5 million were murdered over the first 9 years and how was that supposed to have happened, considering the extermination camps werent built until 1941? Shooting..mass graves? If so, where are they? I would imagine its quite difficult to hide 5 million bodies without them being detected 60 years later...

Also, "murder" is the unlawful killing of a human being. These people were not unlawfully killed.
 
Picaro said:
his purpose is to belittle the holocaust in order to 'revise' Hitler's and Nazi Germany's excreable modern image. It's purely a deliberate propoganda game. This particular scam started in the early 1980's, with the co-option of IHR's mailing list by Nazis; 'IHR' being Institute For Historical Review, an academic journal that went bankrupt, and was bought out.

I'm interested for you to explain how based on what we know practically of this process of extermination, it is possible to kill ten million human beings.

How was that mathematically/practically possible?
 
• Auschwitz II (Auschwitz-Birkenau) (Auschwitz I was a concentration camp and Auschwitz III a labor camp)
• Belzec
• Chelmno (German: Kulmhof an der Nehr, Polish: Chelmno nad Nerem)
• Majdanek
• Sobibór
• Treblinka

On September 3, 1941, 600 Soviet POWs were gassed with Zyklon B at Auschwitz camp I; this was the first experiment with the gas at Auschwitz.

some of the chambers could kill 2,500 people at once.

Besides the camp there were many other ways Autfag used to kill Jews:
Babi Yar: According to the Einsatzgruppe Operational Situation Report No. 101,
33,771 Jews were killed at Babi Yar on September 29 and 30.10 But this was not the end of the killing at Babi Yar.
16,800 per a day
As well as in Minsk, Lvov, Odessa, Vilnus, and many other cities and towns, as well as on the streets of the villages, as well in many other camps and places. Just 10 cities will give rate of 168,000 per a day, - plus 7 camps with chamber.Autfag needs only 3 months to kill 16,000,000. Also they dug graves and burry themselves.

Why Autfag is still here? For the sake of freedom of speech? i have not seen a post from him which would not be a pile garbage and lies. It is difficult to imagine how a sane person can write such things. he apparently takes it from sites of patients of mental institutions and has no intellectual ability to analyse the texts. Autfag is mentally sick – do we need him here?
Millions of Jews, Germans, Slavs, Brits and all others died from Autfag's hand, - millions died in order to stop him - do we have any memory and respect to our dead? We shall end when we forget our dead, we shall receive no respect, no mercy.
 
OMG another one. Their like cockroaches coming out of the woodwork. How 'bout I play Devil's advocate. Let's say the Holocaust is grossly exaggerated. Big ****ing deal....what the ****s your point? What the **** does that have to do with today? Do you think I give a **** if Christopher Columbus actuallly discovered America or not? Just what exactly is all this blathering an attempt to prove?
 
I have no intention of providing a link for the info. I give below.
I would suggest you look it up yourself should you doubt my word.
In total within Nazi occupied countries there were 162 camps, most were work camps for using slave labour, however simply to state that they were just work camps kind of simplifies it.
The slaves were systematically worked to death. If they somehow managed to survive the work, then there were many infringements of the rules which meant they could be beaten or shot.
The crittur who started this thread has also got his numbers a wee bit incorrect.
Recently records with regard to Nazi activities from 1934 up to 1945 clearly reveal over 47 million seperate records dealing with things appertaining to prisoners within the Nazi system.

Interestingly it has been supposed that Adolph Eichmann was in all probability of jewish descent as indeed was Adolph Hitler.
 
justone said:
• Auschwitz II (Auschwitz-Birkenau) (Auschwitz I was a concentration camp and Auschwitz III a labor camp)
• Belzec
• Chelmno (German: Kulmhof an der Nehr, Polish: Chelmno nad Nerem)
• Majdanek
• Sobibór
• Treblinka

On September 3, 1941, 600 Soviet POWs were gassed with Zyklon B at Auschwitz camp I; this was the first experiment with the gas at Auschwitz.

some of the chambers could kill 2,500 people at once.

Besides the camp there were many other ways Autfag used to kill Jews:
Babi Yar: According to the Einsatzgruppe Operational Situation Report No. 101,
33,771 Jews were killed at Babi Yar on September 29 and 30.10 But this was not the end of the killing at Babi Yar.
16,800 per a day
As well as in Minsk, Lvov, Odessa, Vilnus, and many other cities and towns, as well as on the streets of the villages, as well in many other camps and places. Just 10 cities will give rate of 168,000 per a day, - plus 7 camps with chamber.Autfag needs only 3 months to kill 16,000,000. Also they dug graves and burry themselves.

Why Autfag is still here? For the sake of freedom of speech? i have not seen a post from him which would not be a pile garbage and lies. It is difficult to imagine how a sane person can write such things. he apparently takes it from sites of patients of mental institutions and has no intellectual ability to analyse the texts. Autfag is mentally sick – do we need him here?
Millions of Jews, Germans, Slavs, Brits and all others died from Autfag's hand, - millions died in order to stop him - do we have any memory and respect to our dead? We shall end when we forget our dead, we shall receive no respect, no mercy.


That's more like it. Thank you. That does make more sense, of course, if your sources are correct. What are you sources incidentally?
 
Auftrag said:
You cannot be serious! :roll:

Actually....the site linked is one of the more reputable collections of Holocaust victim biography. That you dismiss it out of hand does indicate an unwillingness to accept Data on this subject, and makes your reasoning for this thread rather clear. If indeed, you do not wish to believe the documentation in this Database, further debate is likely pointless, as you have made up your mind long ago, and experience has shown a limited chance of you even reading, let alone believing the information.

"Yad Vashem, together with its partners, has collected and recorded here the names and biographical details of half of the six million Jews murdered by the Nazis and their accomplices. Millions more still remain unidentified: It is our collective duty to persist until all their names are recovered.
Do you know of a Holocaust Victim? Submit Pages of Testimony and send photographs of the victims so they will always be remembered."



But....you did ask for the Information.....Why Ignore it?
 
tecoyah said:
Actually....the site linked is one of the more reputable collections of Holocaust victim biography.

Collected by jews...

That you dismiss it out of hand does indicate an unwillingness to accept Data on this subject, and makes your reasoning for this thread rather clear.

A jew presents "evidence" about the holocaust collected by other jews? How can anyone accept it as unbiased information.

This whole thread is about jews exaggerating the "holocaust"; then a jew links me to a jewish site claiming it's evidence. Clearly that's absurd.

If indeed, you do not wish to believe the documentation in this Database, further debate is likely pointless, as you have made up your mind long ago, and experience has shown a limited chance of you even reading, let alone believing the information.

I would find it incredibly difficult to accept anything from that website.

But....you did ask for the Information.....Why Ignore it?

Non-jewish information is the only reliable information on the holocaust that exists. How can you possibly expect me to accept the "evidence" on that website?
 
Auftrag said:
Collected by jews...



A jew presents "evidence" about the holocaust collected by other jews? How can anyone accept it as unbiased information.

This whole thread is about jews exaggerating the "holocaust"; then a jew links me to a jewish site claiming it's evidence. Clearly that's absurd.



I would find it incredibly difficult to accept anything from that website.



Non-jewish information is the only reliable information on the holocaust that exists. How can you possibly expect me to accept the "evidence" on that website?

OK then....How can anyone here Possibly be expected to Take anything you say seriously. Lets just edit your statement a bit....shall we?

"A N@zi presents "evidence" about the holocaust collected by other N@zis? How can anyone accept it as unbiased information."



I dont suppose you see the difficulty represented in this Quandry? Until the Hatred goes away, no one will have an adequate answer for you....its totally pointless to continue.
 
tecoyah said:
OK then....How can anyone here Possibly be expected to Take anything you say seriously. Lets just edit your statement a bit....shall we?

"A N@zi presents "evidence" about the holocaust collected by other N@zis? How can anyone accept it as unbiased information."



I dont suppose you see the difficulty represented in this Quandry? Until the Hatred goes away, no one will have an adequate answer for you....its totally pointless to continue.

I perfectly accept that it's the same and that is why I am interested to know where 'justone' got his information from.
 
Ok, lets forget about the Hitler holocaust just for one second...historians have claimed that Stalin has killed 20 million people in the span of his rule. So, I'll let you guys sort out the mathematical possibilities...;) lol...you guys are funny
 
Auftrag said:
I perfectly accept that it's the same and that is why I am interested to know where 'justone' got his information from.

I've been 'googling' some of Justone's information, and this is what I've come out with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chamber said:
Nazi gas chambers in mobile vans and at least eight concentration camps (see also extermination camp) were used to kill several million people between 1941 and 1945; some of them could kill 2,500 people at once.
This one could be found all over the internet, as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zyklon_B said:
On September 3, 1941, 600 Soviet POWs were gassed with Zyklon B at Auschwitz camp I; this was the first experiment with the gas at Auschwitz.

The 600 Soviets at one time could be found all over the web.

As far as I am concerened millions could have been killed in that time. But, the fact that people are acting so hostile for Auftrag is unacceptable. Yes, he seems to be a bit sick in the head, but that doesn't mean he is not entitled to his own opinion.
It's not like Auftrag killed the undesireables himself.
 
Am I to accept then, that wikipedia is an authoritative source on the subject of the "holocaust"?
 
My grandfather was there when some of these camps were found, the piles of bodies, shoes, suitcases, I think I will trust him that something really terrible happened there. I don't think the numbers are as important as the intent, if they could have killed 20 million, they certainly would have.:(

Anyone who defends this behavior is just ill, and needs to seek professional help.
 
Deegan said:
My grandfather was there when some of these camps were found, the piles of bodies, shoes, suitcases, I think I will trust him that something really terrible happened there. I don't think the numbers are as important as the intent, if they could have killed 20 million, they certainly would have.:(

I'm not denying that something happened in these camps that is emotional towards other human beings.

Anyone who defends this behavior is just ill, and needs to seek professional help.

This makes no logical sense.

There are no "moral boundries" to the use of violence. Israel uses violence dialy to kill people, children and women included, do you brand them as ill and in need of "professional help".

When the use of violence is necessary then it is necessary and should be employed. The fact that the Final Solution was organised and systematic is the only reason people have these bizare moral arguments about insanity.

If they were just carpet bombed in a war of attrition, such as in Lebonan now, that is perfectly justifiable and within the perametres of moral acceptablity

Hyopcrites!
 
Auftrag said:
I'm not denying that something happened in these camps that is emotional towards other human beings.



This makes no logical sense.

There are no "moral boundries" to the use of violence. Israel uses violence dialy to kill people, children and women included, do you brand them as ill and in need of "professional help".

When the use of violence is necessary then it is necessary and should be employed. The fact that the Final Solution was organised and systematic is the only reason people have these bizare moral arguments about insanity.

If they were just carpet bombed in a war of attrition, such as in Lebonan now, that is perfectly justifiable and within the perametres of moral acceptablity

Hyopcrites!



Surely, even you cannot believe there is no difference between warfare, and Genoicide. We Killed tens of thousands in WWII, as we created a firestorm in Berlin.....Mostly Civilian Casualties, Kids and Moms. But it was not the same thing as systematically gathering up a population and exterminating them based on a completely rediculous superiority complex.
 
Back
Top Bottom