The Holocaust Exaggerated

[jujuman13]

AUFTRAG, Has only the intention of winding up those who oppose his beliefs & like the suckers we are, we fall for his nonsense.
It matters little whether it was 1 or 6 or for that matter 10 or 16 MILLION.
What is inexcusable is that Hitler and his extremely willing minions, sent almost the entire jewish population of those European Countries Germany Invaded, off to slave labour & death camps.

Genocide must be abhored whether it is practised in Asia, Africa, Europe, Russia, South America, Germany or any where else.

Germany almost certainly slaughtered an enormous number of Doctors, Scientists, Engineers that she could well have used to win WW11.

We should really thank the likes of AUFTRAG for never permitting us the luxury of forgetting.

I myself was horrified at the re-union of East & West Germany and the dismantling of the Berlin wall, as it merely permits this warlike race to re-commence theie strides toward world wide domination.

Make no mistake, they will try again whether as leaders of a (united) Europe or as stand alone nation.

 

[Auftrag]

It really doesn't matter. Even if you use 1.5, it's still a holocaust any why you slice and dice it. There's nothing to debate or discuss.

I'm not interested in your moralism. I'm only interested in debating the figures of the holocaust.

 

[Auftrag]

What is inexcusable is that Hitler and his extremely willing minions, sent almost the entire jewish population of those European Countries Germany Invaded, off to slave labour & death camps.

Why is it inexcusable?

Genocide must be abhored whether it is practised in Asia, Africa, Europe, Russia, South America, Germany or any where else.

What if it becomes necessary to commit genocide?

I myself was horrified at the re-union of East & West Germany and the dismantling of the Berlin wall, as it merely permits this warlike race to re-commence theie strides toward world wide domination.

I see. So in reality you believe that Germany should remain subjgated to the will of the "allies"?

 

[cascadian]

What a weird thread. First someone wants to debate how many millions of Jews were killed in the holocaust (as if that would change someone's mind about Nazis), then someone wants to defend carpet bombing because it had good intentions, then someone comes in and asserts that the Germans are a "warlike race".

Oy vey.

Interesting to see how killing and racial hatred gets rationalized on all sides of the spectrum. Great job folks. You'd think it would be easy to take the moral high ground with a nazi trying to defend the holocaust, but some folks still don't get it.

Killing civilians is wrong. It's that simple. Doesn't matter whether they were Jewish, Japanese, Roma, or German. While it's fair to point out the scale of the Nazis inhumanity was unmatched, there's no need to defend carpet bombing. Racial stereotyping of any nationality or ethnicity is scientifically unjustified, baseless, and morally suspect.

Auftrag, even if you were right about the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust, National Socialism is still based on lies and misconceptions about science, human nature, and history. It is an ideology with absolutely nothing of value to add to the world and certainly with no means to propose the necessity of the Holocaust.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'm not interested in your moralism. I'm only interested in debating the figures of the holocaust.

I guess you had some personal things to take care of that didn't allow you time to debate over the past few weeks. I gave you some initial numbers in Post #32 on 8-1-06 that you didn't resond to. If you're back, I would be happy to continue (as far as my work schedule allows), and will provide some Auschwitz numbers, soon.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

BTW Auftrag, let's follow this sequence:

an act of Warfare, meant to defeat an enemy declared and engaged.

And so was the Final solution.

From your response, (and others in this thread) the Jews were a declared enemy that Germany was at war with. Under the Hague Convention of 1907, German behavior surrounding the Final Solution was illegal. If Jews were an engaged enemy and the Final Soultion was the act of warfare used to defeat them, then Germany needed to abide by the Hague Convention. It seriously broke it, especially Chapter 2, Atricles 4, 6, and 18.

 

[cherokee]

Auftrag why do you wish to play a numbers game?

How about this number. It cost the world 50 plus million people to kill the son of a bitch...

 

[el_joven]

Your entire reasoning relies on two assumptions:

The first is that the SS was incapable of so many murders in such a short time

The second and more absurd is that the extermination of the Jews did not take place before policy was created

oh and when is it necessary to commit genocide?

 

[tecoyah]

I'm not interested in your moralism. I'm only interested in debating the figures of the holocaust.

Game On:

BERLIN, Jan. 15 (JTA) -- Documents that have gathered dust in British archives for more than half a century reveal long-hidden information about the Holocaust, two researchers say.

The two published their findings in the latest edition of the journal Holocaust and Genocide Studies, which is co-published by the Oxford University Press and the Washington-based U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

According to authors Stephen Tyas of England and Peter Witte of Germany, the recently declassified and decoded Nazi radio dispatches "for the first time" show the Nazis' own accounting of the numbers of Jews killed in 1942 in four Nazi camps.

In that year, a total of 1,274,166 Jews were killed in the extermination camps of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, as well as in the Majdanek concentration camp.

The decoded document indicates that 24,733 were killed in Majdanek, 434,508 in Belzec, 101,370 in Sobibor and 713,555 in Treblinka in 1942.

The information was broadcast in coded messages from occupied Lublin, Poland, on Jan. 11, 1943.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/General/Korherr/JTA150102.html


You are Codially invited to be the next contestant on....The Bigot is Wrong.

Bob...tell him what we have for him.

 

[Auftrag]

From your response, (and others in this thread) the Jews were a declared enemy that Germany was at war with. Under the Hague Convention of 1907, German behavior surrounding the Final Solution was illegal. If Jews were an engaged enemy and the Final Soultion was the act of warfare used to defeat them, then Germany needed to abide by the Hague Convention. It seriously broke it, especially Chapter 2, Atricles 4, 6, and 18.

I find it proposterous that you keep asserting these laws to me as if they mean anything.

The Geneva convention, the Hague convention, the UN Charter of Human rights are western liberal democracy treaties used to stifle any challange to the status quo.

No nation is bound morally or in any material way to abide by these laws unless of course one looses.

Germany had absolutely no reason to follow the Hague convention and the world has no justification to dictate to soverign nations how they ar eto conduct themselves internally or externally.

 

[Auftrag]

I guess you had some personal things to take care of that didn't allow you time to debate over the past few weeks. I gave you some initial numbers in Post #32 on 8-1-06 that you didn't resond to. If you're back, I would be happy to continue (as far as my work schedule allows), and will provide some Auschwitz numbers, soon.

I am prepared to give your figures and the evidence provided the benefit of the doubt, although until I see actual evidence before my eyes, I will remain skeptical.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I find it proposterous that you keep asserting these laws to me as if they mean anything.

The Geneva convention, the Hague convention, the UN Charter of Human rights are western liberal democracy treaties used to stifle any challange to the status quo.

No nation is bound morally or in any material way to abide by these laws unless of course one looses.

Germany had absolutely no reason to follow the Hague convention and the world has no justification to dictate to soverign nations how they ar eto conduct themselves internally or externally.

You're wrong. Considering that Germany signed the Hague Covention of 1899 and 1907 Articles, they are bound to those laws. Or, perhaps, it is put better this way: they are bound to the consequences of breaking those laws.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I am prepared to give your figures and the evidence provided the benefit of the doubt, although until I see actual evidence before my eyes, I will remain skeptical.

Fair enough. Good researchers need to be skeptical, regardless of their hyptheses.

 

[Auftrag]

You're wrong. Considering that Germany signed the Hague Covention of 1899 and 1907 Articles, they are bound to those laws.

In some mystical void of being "bound" to a law? How are you bound by a law? If a soverign nation has the ability to do what they want, how are they bound by a law?

Being bound implies one can't do something. Clearly that's not true.

Or, perhaps, it is put better this way: they are bound to the consequences of breaking those laws.

Evidently.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

In some mystical void of being "bound" to a law? How are you bound by a law? If a soverign nation has the ability to do what they want, how are they bound by a law?

Being bound implies one can't do something. Clearly that's not true.

Bound in the same way that each of us are bound by laws in our communities. When one enters a community, the laws of that community are implicitly agreed to. In the case we are discussing, international law was directly agreed to. And just as it is in any community one can chose to not follow those laws and instead to accept the consequences of that choice.

 

[Awesome!]

I'm not interested in your moralism. I'm only interested in debating the figures of the holocaust.

For what purpose? Whether it's 6 million or 10 million, if we agree on your numbers, will you take your DIAPER off and join the human race?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

For what purpose? Whether it's 6 million or 10 million, if we agree on your numbers, will you take your DIAPER off and join the human race?

No reason to insult him. Let's stick to debating.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Taken from the minutes of the Wannsee Conference as to the "final solution" of the Jewish question:

Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final
solution of the European Jewish question, distributed as follows
among the individual countries:

Country Number

A. Germany proper 131,800
Austria 43,700
Eastern territories 420,000
General Government 2,284,000
Bialystok 400,000
Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia 74,200
Estonia - free of Jews -
Latvia 3,500
Lithuania 34,000
Belgium 43,000
Denmark 5,600
France / occupied territory 165,000
unoccupied territory 700,000
Greece 69,600
Netherlands 160,800
Norway 1,300

B. Bulgaria 48,000
England 330,000
Finland 2,300
Ireland 4,000
Italy including Sardinia 58,000
Albania 200
Croatia 40,000
Portugal 3,000
Rumania including Bessarabia 342,000
Sweden 8,000
Switzerland 18,000
Serbia 10,000
Slovakia 88,000
Spain 6,000
Turkey (European portion) 55,500
Hungary 742,800
USSR 5,000,000
Ukraine 2,994,684
White Russia
excluding Bialystok 446,484


Total over 11,000,000


The number of Jews given here for foreign countries
includes, however, only those Jews who still adhere to the Jewish
faith, since some countries still do not have a definition of the
term "Jew" according to racial principles.

The handling of the problem in the individual countries will
meet with difficulties due to the attitude and outlook of the
people there, especially in Hungary and Rumania. Thus, for
example, even today the Jew can buy documents in Rumania that
will officially prove his foreign citizenship.

The influence of the Jews in all walks of life in the USSR
is well known. Approximately five million Jews live in the
European part of the USSR, in the Asian part scarcely 1/4
million.

The breakdown of Jews residing in the European part of the
USSR according to trades was approximately as follows:

Agriculture 9.1 %
Urban workers 14.8 %
In trade 20.0 %
Employed by the state 23.4 %
In private occupations such as
medical profession, press, theater, etc. 32. 7%

Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution
the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East.
Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in
large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the
course of which action doubtless a large portion will be
eliminated by natural causes.

The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly
consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated
accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and
would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival
(see the experience of history.)

http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/Holocaust/wansee-transcript.html

 

[Vader]

Taken from the minutes of the Wannsee Conference as to the "final solution" of the Jewish question:

Those figures do not include the number of political prisoners, gypsies, homosexuals, and various other non-Jews who were murdered by the 3rd Reich.

:doh

 

[stone2805]

I am almost speechless. The mere fact that you would suggest that the holocaust was exaggerated is a shame to all of mankind. The mere fact that you would claim that merely 1.5 million lives lost by a bigot backwards regime in 12 years as being tolerable is moral blasphemy. The mere fact that you would quote Adolf Hitler is living proof that evil exists in this world. The true fact is that Adolf Hitler was nothing more than a racist opportunity hungry ****** who took out his own selfish evil desires on god's chosen people. People who proclaim the superiority of the "aryan" race are simply angry evil ******s wishing to dispose a combination of their self love and hate upon the world. Do the world a favor, and speak no more for your ignorance taints mankind-and don't get too excited by the word taint you racist ******.

 

[Diana]

I don't know who in all seriousness can argue whether 6 Million died or 1, 5 Million or indeed more than 11 Miilion due the Holocaust and think it makes a different. It remains murder, it remains inhuman and terrible no matter how much you like to spin it.

 

[dsanthony]

What bothers me about "holocaust" coverage is that it makes the Jews seem uniquely singled out in history---that just isn't true. In the 20th century alone, there have been at least 7 other genocides that I can name off the top of my head. Armenians, Russians (under Stalin), Jews, Rwandans, Somalia, Sudan, Congo, Croatia. Genocide is much more common that holocaust pronouncements would imply.

 

[cherokee]

What bothers me about "holocaust" coverage is that it makes the Jews seem uniquely singled out in history---that just isn't true. In the 20th century alone, there have been at least 7 other genocides that I can name off the top of my head. Armenians, Russians (under Stalin), Jews, Rwandans, Somalia, Sudan, Congo, Croatia. Genocide is much more common that holocaust pronouncements would imply.

True but none of the others (from what I remember) reached the amount of dead as the Jewish did.

(Somalia?)

I know that sounded cold but face it we live in a world that really doesn’t care.
I believe when Genocide rears it head it should be the responsibility of the Free World to destroy it. But hell that’s just me...

The one I see as the most preventable, Rwanda should have never happened..

 

[dsanthony]

Don't get me started on Somalia. Clinton sent the marines in to keep the peace, and ran like a little girl when blood was spilled.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Don't get me started on Somalia. Clinton sent the marines in to keep the peace, and ran like a little girl when blood was spilled.

Actually George H.W. Bush sent the marines in to keep the peace and Clinton had them run.