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The Free People's Party

kattmanduu

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We need to get a real alternative party working. The rest of the aledged "3rd Parties" are just special interest groups with very narrow agendas. We need to address this nation wide, with all of these smaller parties with 6 or 700 members, not really making a difference. Just some noise every now and then.
We all want our freedoms and rights, safe food, a clean environment, to conserve our wild lands and wildlife. We are for competitive business's and for business being held responsible for their actions/mistakes. It's clear to me that these smaller groups need to join together and really make a difference. I bet Dennis Kucinich would love to be our candidate for president. What about Al Gore? Bring on Badnarick or Dean to be the VP. Maybe. There are many outstanding individuals within these smaller parties to run for senate and congress, if we took 15% from both the democrats and republicans we would be a real 1/3 of the process and can make a real difference in Wash DC. With the union comes the funding, and if 30 groups join together we could really make a difference. I know there are many people out there who feel the same way. So let's start the ball rolling! It's like a ballot box revolution. We need to go beyond our ego and prejudice and come together as "ONE". HUMMMM KATT
 
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kattmanduu said:
We need to get a real alternative party working. The rest of the aledged "3rd Parties" are just special interest groups with very narrow agendas. We need to address this nation wide, with all of these smaller parties with 6 or 700 members, not really making a difference. Just some noise every now and then.
We all want our freedoms and rights, safe food, a clean environment, to conserve our wild lands and wildlife. We are for competitive business's and for business being held responsible for their actions/mistakes. It's clear to me that these smaller groups need to join together and really make a difference. I bet Dennis Kucinich would love to be our candidate for president. What about Al Gore? Bring on Badnarick or Dean to be the VP. Maybe. There are many outstanding individuals within these smaller parties to run for senate and congress, if we took 15% from both the democrats and republicans we would be a real 1/3 of the process and can make a real difference in Wash DC. With the union comes the funding, and if 30 groups join together we could really make a difference. I know there are many people out there who feel the same way. So let's start the ball rolling! It's like a ballot box revolution. We need to go beyond our ego and prejudice and come together as "ONE". HUMMMM KATT
I just went to their website. Socialism is just going to dig us deeper into the ground especially when we are immigrating third world immigrants directly into our social services and have most government jobs go to unqualified blacks. Feminism is not something I want to fight for. Its a far right ideology pushed by Jewish marxists. :(
 

kattmanduu

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The Communist party is but one small splinter group among many. As I said, for a real viable 3rd party to really work it needs an open platform without religion or religous bias's. It can be open to allow all religous beliefs to exist together, it can be without a race as well, all are welcome here. Class or wealth is the only barrier today. And a 3rd party cannot allow a class system to run it's platform and still be all inclusive. The present 2 party system is a class system and it has no room for working class politicans to operate. It is managed by the mega corporations that want to rule the world, and they are but 10% of the people. We need to take money out of our political system. Or at least not let it control it. Then the people will have a true voice in it's politics. HUMMM KATT
 
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kattmanduu said:
The Communist party is but one small splinter group among many. As I said, for a real viable 3rd party to really work it needs an open platform without religion or religous bias's.
I believe that the founding fathers emphasized the importance of religious morality in our government. Most of all of the best American patriots always were religiously motivated. In a system of checks and balances I believe religion keeps politicians and everything in order and holds accountability. Although judging from the Christian right today I understand why people would not want religion in government.

It is managed by the mega corporations that want to rule the world, and they are but 10% of the people. We need to take money out of our political system. Or at least not let it control it. Then the people will have a true voice in it's politics. HUMMM KATT
That is just a vice of our system that we just have to deal with. Every system has its problems just like socialism. I just feel that our present system may have its problems but its the better of the two. But I am not one to criticize those viewpoints I have them also.
 

kattmanduu

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This nation was initially a nation of emigrants, each bringing with them their own religous beliefs. They didn't get issued a religion at the gate at Ellis Island. Even the Constitution says that there will not be a "state religion", you are free to pray as you want. It was to be a government based on dirversity and openness, not a closed society. It was founded to be a counter-monarcy a democracy, which means the "people rule" not a King or tyrant, but a government with a balance of power split 3 ways so that no single group could rule over the masses. Do I need to explain the concept of balance of power? Do you know how many political parties there were before 1860? Here is a link to some history from that time period http://www.averillpark.k12.ny.us/academics/US_History/unit6.html , it has some good info there. Our system broke down in 1860 and has been patched up with duct tape and baling wire ever since. To a point now it is in need of "a people's overhaul". We need to fix it right. We need to up-grade it to fit our societies (more than one) needs. To allow for more than one religion, and to put women on an equal plane. If you want to read into the christian bible a bit you will find that it puts woman 1 step behind man and she has to obey his wishes. Is that equal rights? NOT!!! The Koran has woman in a similar position subservant to man. So to put a religous label on our government and it's founding father's doesn't fit with today's societies and with women's right's etc that goes against the bible's teachings, you can't say our government is a "christian government". Your religous beliefs are your own personal beliefs and the constitution allows for you to believe anyway you want. But it says you can't mandate or legislate your beliefs on everyone, if you want to live that way join a monistary or move to Iran. Jesus said in the bible that you must be willing to follow his teachings or desire to, not be compeled to by force of arms. Such was the actions of the Crusuaders of King James and Richard. Being christian isn't such a nice thing in all reality. That is why our founding father's saw fit to allow for religous freedom.
They did it in the name of their god, they didn't have access to any other god's at the time.
So I say this new party must not mandate any one religion or set of beliefs, but be void of a religion thus nobody will be forced to change. You can bring your values with you, your goodwill to all etc, But don't bring your books. The fair treatment of all on a truely equal basis is number one. If you can do that the rest is easy. Don't need any deity to tell me that.
My insight into this comes from lifes experiences and a lot of reading and listening. I am a disabled Veteran of the USAF. I served from 1974 to 1992, I have technical degrees in aircraft engineering and computer science and I am a 5 star certified bakery chef. I don't desire to belittle or make light of anyone. I only want to share my idea's, pass on my experiences or views. I am here to learn and teach at the same time. I used to teach people how to fix F-4's (jet fighter), but I had to learn it first. I like to say that I have learned something new everyday. To equate our government to a modern appliance it would have to be a PC. It's only as good as the operating system and the other programs you load up to that O/S and all the hardware must be compatible as well. Have you ever used a TRS-80 computer? :lol: . These are but a few of those things that make you go
HUMMMMM..............KATT
 

ptsdkid

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You totally lost me when you suggested Dennis Kucinich run as president. The guy is an avid Communist i.e. an atheist. The country needs to get back to it's Christian fundamentals.
 
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This nation was initially a nation of emigrants, each bringing with them their own religous beliefs. They didn't get issued a religion at the gate at Ellis Island. Even the Constitution says that there will not be a "state religion", you are free to pray as you want.
For over 150 years we were a nation comprised of white European Christian immigrants. Diversity didn’t come until after that. We are still a white Christian nation but that is changing due to our immigration policies. Our policies specifically favored white Christians and this was stated by our founding fathers for it not to be changed. Immigrants did bring their own religious beliefs with different Christian denominations but it was all in the same boat.

With the state religion the founders wanted to prevent something like the Church of England telling them what denomination was right and oppressing them. But they still wanted to set an example for the world and be a government influenced by Christianity. They wanted freedom for all and for people to worship God in peace and not be told what to do or be persecuted for their beliefs.

To a point now it is in need of "a people's overhaul". We need to fix it right. We need to up-grade it to fit our societies (more than one) needs. To allow for more than one religion, and to put women on an equal plane.
I partially agree but in different ways. I think our system needs a major restoration because it has been corroded by corruption, special interests, and greed. Unfortunately the people tolerate are broke down system so there is nothing that can be done. I wish we could go back to the form of government we had with the founding fathers where the power was put in the hands of the people but the American people don’t want it. They are stuck in the mentality that “We have no choice. We must take it or leave it”. People are willing to tolerate this corruption and elitism ever since Reagan. We always allowed for more then one religion and we still do today. It just that we wanted to prevent religious conflict therefore we favored immigrating white Christians who shared our ancestry, form of government, religion etc which did prevent problems by creating a new American Christian culture.

I believe in family and the rights of women but within reason. I don’t think women should go fight on the battlefield, have the same positions as men and be treated like a man. Call me old fashioned but I don’t think this woman’s revolution is good. If a woman wants to go and work I am not going to stop her and believe in the right for her to do things like that but other things like becoming preachers, CEOS, politicians etc comes with apprehension. I think a woman should raise kids and concentrate on family. That is the greatest contribution they can make, raise our nations kids and preserve future generations. That is by far the most important thing they can do and it should not go unappreciated or undervalued. Our nation will suffer and not be preserved if our children continue to be neglected and not raised in the correct ways.

If you want to read into the christian bible a bit you will find that it puts woman 1 step behind man and she has to obey his wishes. Is that equal rights? NOT!!!
Women can disagree with men in the bible. It just says she should try to support his wishes if I am not mistaken. I do believe that women shouldn’t have 100 percent equal rights with man. But that is not to say they are not equal as people or of lesser value. Men should always treat them with dignity and respect and honor their opinions and feelings but still a line needs to be drawn.

The Koran has woman in a similar position subservant to man. So to put a religous label on our government and it's founding father's doesn't fit with today's societies and with women's right's etc that goes against the bible's teachings, you can't say our government is a "christian government".
A Muslim society and a Christian society are completely different. You and I both know that women couldn’t lobby and achieve the same amount of rights they have in America in an Islamic country. The Koran does treat women very poorly to the point of oppression. We definitely do not have a Christian government but in prior times we did have a government which was influenced by Christianity. Heck it still is today but its corrupted and Jewish neocons who infiltrated and took over the legislative body. :(

Your religous beliefs are your own personal beliefs and the constitution allows for you to believe anyway you want. But it says you can't mandate or legislate your beliefs on everyone
Definitely agree. Except I am just trying to preserve the will of the American founding fathers, the constitution, and the historical precedent. I feel that if we drift away from the founding principles of our government we will meet our demise.

They did it in the name of their god, they didn't have access to any other god's at the time.
lol ofcourse they did. What about Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism? Jefferson and many of the founding fathers specifically addressed each religion and didn’t like any of them except they respected Buddhism. (If I am not mistaken, at least according to Jefferson)

My insight into this comes from lifes experiences and a lot of reading and listening. I am a disabled Veteran of the USAF. I served from 1974 to 1992, I have technical degrees in aircraft engineering and computer science and I am a 5 star certified bakery chef. I don't desire to belittle or make light of anyone. I only want to share my idea's, pass on my experiences or views. I am here to learn and teach at the same time. I used to teach people how to fix F-4's (jet fighter), but I had to learn it first. I like to say that I have learned something new everyday. To equate our government to a modern appliance it would have to be a PC. It's only as good as the operating system and the other programs you load up to that O/S and all the hardware must be compatible as well. Have you ever used a TRS-80 computer? . These are but a few of those things that make you go
HUMMMMM..............KATT
Thanks for your service. :D But our social views come in conflict a bit. Your multiculturalism policy in my opinion is supported because most leftists know that as long as we have a country that is 100 percent white Christian they are not going to get much legislation passed. But I believe this is the most important thing to preserve our sovereignty. We should return to our Christian fundamental principles if we expect this nation to stand. You do make a few good points though.

AP
 

kattmanduu

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If this claim of being good christians is made for our founding fathers you are sadly misinformed. Jesus would not own slaves or of had sexual relations with them as Jefferson
did. Franklin had about as many girls as Ron Jeromy has had. A christ-like government
would not allow for any pollution of the environment, nor would it conduct wars. Every M1 tank would be made into 4 tractors that run on hydrogen fuel. Smart bombs would not exist.
Greed is a sin, along with ego or pride. There would not be any poor people nor any rich ones. The stock market would be gone. There can't be any wealthy christians. It's against the teachings of Jesus. Yes I studied at the Huron Bible College in Huron South Dakota for a year. It was operated by the Church of Christ there. Also I studied philosophy for a semister at Oxford University in the UK while I was stationed there with the USAF in 1975. The original "bible" was a Celtic Bible, the Celts got it from the same place that King James did, about 200 years before he did. King James got his version made up and promtly ordered the destruction of all other bibles, and the people reading them, his was going to be the only one. The Celtic people were the people Rome had so much trouble with in England hence Hadrians Wall, that was never finished before Rome fell. Is that enough of a history lesson? Getting back to the topic of a "good christian government" it can't work with our present form of government. It has cut the social programs and the education system doesn't really educate anyone anymore. Jesus would have free medical/health care for all. Everyone would have a real, useful skill or trade. Hollywood would not exist either.
You haven't got time for movies or video games, you need to learn a skill. I was raised by my Grandfather who thought that way, I was a real good mechanic by the time I was 14, I knew how to plough a straight row, and when to plant, it was on a small organic farm in SD where I got my start. That type of farmer is an endangered species, greed has replaced common sense in the majority of the farmers today. Yes the subject did wander a bit but it all is related to having a money driven society or a religion driven society, Jesus was the first socialist. Everyone is totally equal, no rich or poor. So how do you want it? The way it has become, because there is no turning back now. Or do you want to ship out all the non whites and mop your own floor. Jesus didn't care what color you were. So what'll it be?
HUMMMMM KATT
 
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If this claim of being good christians is made for our founding fathers you are sadly misinformed. Jesus would not own slaves or of had sexual relations with them as Jefferson
did. Franklin had about as many girls as Ron Jeromy has had. A christ-like government
Franklin’s sexual liaisons were primarily during his youth if I am not mistaken. Heck we are not perfect. That is part of being a Christian. If you make mistakes and repent you are following the rules of the bible. I don’t think people understand slavery. It was a moral norm for the world at the time. Whites were slaves as well and even some blacks owned slaves. The world was a brutal place then. Jefferson treated his slaves well and was heavily opposed to cruel treatment of them as did the founding fathers and they all wanted to end it. They actually did try to end it but the South said that they would around 1808 (It was somewhere around there) but they fell back on their word because they considered slavery as a commodity which would destroy their economy if removed.

would not allow for any pollution of the environment, nor would it conduct wars.
True, many unnecessary wars would be prevented. But freedom and liberty is earned and secured through war. I think even the bible says some wars are necessary. If we didn’t expect to have war this country would be taken over. We will always have to be ready to preserve our liberty; always.

Smart bombs would not exist.
Sure they would. They would be used to reduce casualties of innocent people in a conflict that would be 100 percent necessary.

Greed is a sin, along with ego or pride. There would not be any poor people nor any rich ones. The stock market would be gone. There can't be any wealthy christians. It's against the teachings of Jesus.
The bible does say greed, ego/pride are sins. There certainly would be wealthy Christians but they would distribute their money among the poor as many do. I know plenty of Christians who give lots of money to charities, poor, and good causes. My grandma is Catholic and she basically gave away everything she had to people. She let a family of 9 live practically rent free in her spare house. The kicker is they didn’t even work and she still let them live for free. Andrew Carnegie is a perfect example. Christians are some of the biggest contributors to causes around the world especially to orphanages etc.

People should always be able to generate wealth and then distribute it out of conscience afterwards. This is a fundamental principle of the bible. I don’t remember Jesus saying the government shall provide everything for the people and fix all problems. He said for the rich to give to the poor out of moral principle.

Secondly capitalism grants more personal freedom and enables countries to move forward and generate huge amounts of wealth unlike socialism. This computer forum is an evil product of capitalism and is used for so much good. How great is it that you can talk to me about your ideas and recruit people towards your cause? Or Microsoft provides jobs to millions of Americans who end up paying taxes to finance all of those social programs you love?

Getting back to the topic of a "good christian government" it can't work with our present form of government. It has cut the social programs and the education system doesn't really educate anyone anymore. Jesus would have free medical/health care for all. Everyone would have a real, useful skill or trade. Hollywood would not exist either.
Sure it can. Our government was made for Christians as stated by our founding fathers. Social programs are huge which ones were cut? The education system is going downhill because we have to accommodate third world immigrants and lower standards especially due to the federal government encroaching in education. School was much better before the department of education with much higher standards and better curriculum. Secondly that is an additional 5 or so billion dollars that could go towards better causes instead of being wasted on government bureaucracy if Christians were in power. This is just one of a million examples of government waste. If we followed true Christian principles government would be severely reduced, and we would have a massive surplus that could be used for virtually everything. All of our money is wasted on: terribly run social programs, foreign aid, immigrants sucking us dry, huge government etc. Then if everyone had some type of moral principles in a Christian society they would be patriotic and they would run our social programs effectively instead of just doing the bare minimum for a paycheck. (That is even being generous)

And there would be Hollywood. Except the movies would deal with life issues that could better society and make people leave the theater with having gained something. It would be a support for people and continually enrich them with thought. A would just be a component of an intellectual, godly society. It would not only help people becoming better people but better citizens. Even secular humanist type people would benefit.

If everything was run like how I am telling you we would have so much money it wouldn’t be funny. We would develop a good health care system for all but as of now it’s out of the question. We simply can not afford it strictly due to our sins. We chose to blow it here, spend there, not effectively use it here etc and now we can’t provide for people. It would only be worse in your form of government as well. It’s not good to have people becoming dependent on the government. You do point out problems that we have but I attribute it to lack of: religious morality, values, common sense, racial problems, and patriotism deficiencies. If all of these things flourished I believe that our government would flourish and all of these problems would be addressed.

Jesus was the first socialist. Everyone is totally equal, no rich or poor.
Everyone had the same value in Gods eyes but Jesus had a much higher opinion of a genuine homeless man then a rich a hole that screwed people to make his fortune. People should always be enabled to accomplish what they want. I wouldn’t want to live in a country like that. If I want to be richer and more successful then others I want to go ahead and do it. Not everyone wants to be equal. That is not to say I would be a better person in Gods eyes though. People will still be equal in Gods eyes but not in societies. It’s just the way you look at it. I believe in capitalism and our present form of government and I believe people are equal even if some are more successful then others. People are in the position they want to be in not because they are unable to succeed. Your system just punishes the people who have a good work ethic and want to get ahead over the lazy.

But on the other hand I would rather have a rich law abiding white guy in a country that provides jobs to people as opposed to a violent minority who commits crime. It would be more desirable to have guy #1 but I would necessarily think guy #2 was a not an equal person in Gods eyes. He just committed crime in his life and went down the wrong path and that’s it. It just matters if someone is a good person or not but it’s an interesting topic which is open to heavy debate.

My parents were from a communist country. It is not all what is cracked out to be. You don’t see people flee to communist countries for a reason; only America. Socialism has very big problems but it can be an acceptable form of government but our current form of government surpasses it tremendously.

Or do you want to ship out all the non whites and mop your own floor.
I just feel that we should preserve our sovereignty and remain a united people through religion, ancestry, etc. This country was established by whites, made a superpower by whites and should remain so. It’s like Europe, America, Canada, Australia etc were all built by whites and it was tough. It was a lot of blood, hard work and sacrifice and we had lots of problems but we established a high standard of living and right when we did all of the third world wants to come and reap the benefits. They didn’t build these countries and they are just going to drag us down if we continue to let them flood in. Certain people who share our ancestry, religion, and traditions etc who want to come and follow the American dream, contribute to make America better, and become model patriotic citizens are welcome but in moderation. They have an obligation to preserve what they are coming to attain for future generations and if not they should not be accepted. Additionally we can accept certain people seeking asylum like Asians if they meet certain criteria + people just who can overall make the country better.

AP
 

V.I. Lenin

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Socialism: An economic system BETWEEN capitalism and communism when there are still rich and poor, the gap is just lessend
Communism: The final stage of Marx's dream where there are not rich and poor and Community plans all


Socialism can work. You just can't use it in it's entirety. All socialistic countries that operate well today are mixed. Venezeual, Sweden, and others all have a mixed-market economy that leans more left then right. Socialism and Socialists believe in a pseudo-capitalist society of social reforms, social programs, and money being put back into the system. Sure capitalism works. But does that mean it's the best? Capitalism allows you to buy and sell everything, you can amass funds and resources. Freedom's a resource, you can buy that too. Is that right?

We should return to our Christian fundamental principles if we expect this nation to stand.
Yes. Splendid idea. A nation of immigrants with hundreds of different religions.I think some other countries decided to fall back on their religious fundamental principles. Iran is one. How can we go forward if you insist on pushing us back?
 

kattmanduu

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This is starting to look like a real debate now. I love it! There is discussion about the idea of getting back to our core values.
When you perform extraordinary rendition, sell and buy people then ship them to a place where they didn't want to be and force them to work via the whip and chains, is that a "good christian" NOT! Didn't the Jews made a ruckus about being the slaves in Egypt and then again in Russia and in Germany? If you don't like being the slave don't make anyone else your slave.
Most of the people who were the "first christians" were not actually of a "white" race. Being white doesn't make you right. All this "white" crap is blind ignorance to reality. I am a mix of the Nordic, Norman and Blackfoot Indian. Who do I hate? No one. It's more fun to love than to hate, and it costs less and less stress as well. :lol:
The "fall of Rome" began after it took up the christian religion, that was before the "Dark Ages". Rome did well as long as it allowed the peoples of the countries it conquered to keep their own religions.
A true "follower of Christ" doesn't exist in any of these aledged "christian governments" of the west. The policies they have do not reflect their beliefs. So you can rule out returning to that system. The mega-corporations are just using the religion thing to keep the masses in line and divided against each other so that they (corps) keep their power.
To see and understand this you should read some of Noam Chomsky's writings, he has pretty much figured out how these "leaders" gained and held on to the control of the world.
The tax system as we know it today was in-part set up to have everyone give their fair share to help the poor regardless of their faith or race. Give a poor man some food and you feed him for a day, teach him how to farm and he will help feed the community.
I know, it all sounds so great and noble. But to gain respect you must first give respect.
I see this "respect" issue in the mid-east region as the major cause of the conflicts there. I also see where the "western corporate governments", thirsty for the oil, are using the respect issue to continue the conflicts there. The British failed in 1917-20 to actually convert the people of Iraq to any form of semi-democratic society when they brought in the missonaries from Europe and tried to force them to change. Shoot! The Turkmen had better luck with that. Kahn couldn't control them for very long. Is't there some lesson to learn from all these failures? What I can see is that all the money spent on weapons and war could of been spent buying hearts and minds of the countries concerned. We could have a winter home in Baghdad. You do seem to get more bee's with flowers than with oil. And when you give manure you will get a lot of flies.
I hope I am not insulting anyone here, I use the term "ignorant" to refer to one being uninformed, mis or disinformed. I don't "know it all" but I am trying to. I have been able to learn a few things from this thread as well. The candor here has been most enlightening and I hope it can be for all involved. Thanks HUMMMMM KATT
 
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Socialism: An economic system BETWEEN capitalism and communism when there are still rich and poor, the gap is just lessend
But you have to understand that people chose to be rich, poor, etc. The only obligation we have as a country is to enable people to pursue their dreams to earn what they desire. Economic adversity is the result of lack in personal character and work ethnic more then it is from our system.
One good thing about capitalism is that it channels greed to work for the common good. Capitalism with minimum regulation and taxes builds powerful countries especially when it has balance of power when you have a moral religious society.
Communism: The final stage of Marx's dream where there are not rich and poor and Community plans all
That is exactly what kattmandu is advocating. Marx also said that socialism is a transition stage to communism.

Socialism can work. You just can't use it in it's entirety. All socialistic countries that operate well today are mixed. Venezeual, Sweden, and others all have a mixed-market economy that leans more left then right. Socialism and Socialists believe in a pseudo-capitalist society of social reforms, social programs, and money being put back into the system. Sure capitalism works. But does that mean it's the best? Capitalism allows you to buy and sell everything, you can amass funds and resources. Freedom's a resource, you can buy that too. Is that right?
Socialism can work in racially moral homogeneous countries but it will always develop major problems just like Sweden. Capitalism is just the better of the two by far even if it has its flaws. Governments do not create prosperity only free markets systems. When government gets involved with anything they destroy it and it’s not effectively run and that is just something we have to accept.
I think some other countries decided to fall back on their religious fundamental principles. Iran is one. How can we go forward if you insist on pushing us back?
Iran and America are completely different. Both have religious influence yet America became the number one world power while Iran has an oppressive regime. We are still a Christian nation. Comparing America and Iran is comparing day and night. I only want to preserve what made this country great. We wouldn’t be moving back but merely securing religious and moral influence in America.

Secondly we are moving back. The constant mistakes over the last 40 years are catching up with us and moving full force. We are moving down hill rapidly. Unless we return to our founding principles we can’t expect for America to maintain her prosperity.

sell and buy people then ship them to a place where they didn't want to be and force them to work via the whip and chains, is that a "good christian" NOT! If you don't like being the slave don't make anyone else your slave.
Who is to say the slave traders were Christian? How am I making people slaves especially considering my ancestors didn’t own slaves? Secondly whites weren’t slaves? The word Slav came from the word slave. Most European peoples were in slaved at one point in time yet you don’t hear them screaming for reparations.

It’s forbidden in America to discriminate against a minority, to withhold a job from them even if they are not qualified etc. Yet minorities continually complain and demand more like we are indebted to them. We don’t owe them anything.

American blacks on average enjoy more per capita incomes in the range of twenty to fifty times that of blacks living in Africa. Not every white man is an evil racist as the left leads you to believe. Economic adversity is more the result of flaws in personal character rather then racial oppression which has ceased to exist for well over a century.

Most of the people who were the "first christians" were not actually of a "white" race. Being white doesn't make you right. All this "white" crap is blind ignorance to reality.
It’s not a matter of being white but preserving the ethnic status quo of the people who established this country and perpetuated its institutions. This will prevent ethnic, social, and religious problems.

I acknowledge that Europeans and particularly the Anglo-Saxons made this country. Others came to this country because it was already made as a European commonwealth. They did not make it, and yet they are completely changing it. I am determined that they shall not. We can’t surrender it to somebody else or allow other people, no matter what their merits, to make it something different. This will surely meet our demise and change the founding principles that this country was established upon.

The loss of racial, religious, and cultural identity means a change of ideals. It shouldn’t be condemned to secure America as a racially homogeneous state to therefore secure American culture and prosperity. It is absolutely vital to the preservation of our society and we can’t afford to let America be dramatically changed due to a violent attack of multiculturalism and political correctness.

I am a mix of the Nordic, Norman and Blackfoot Indian. Who do I hate? No one. It's more fun to love than to hate, and it costs less and less stress as well.
I as well do not “hate” anyone. I just feel that we should acknowledge the innate differences between races and change our policies accordingly.
The "fall of Rome" began after it took up the christian religion, that was before the "Dark Ages". Rome did well as long as it allowed the peoples of the countries it conquered to keep their own religions.
Actually history is repeating itself. If I am not mistaken Rome fell due to: inflation, massive overpopulation, over immigration, corruption, apathy, and having a huge empire that they couldn’t maintain along with subversion from within etc. Secondly Christians were oppressed in the Roman Empire. It depends what part of time you looking at but I believe when the Rome adopted Christianity as its official religion it was already very weak and almost completely fallen.

A true "follower of Christ" doesn't exist in any of these aledged "christian governments" of the west.
Alleged is correct. We certainly do not have a Christian government in any way shape or form. If we did America would be much better off.

The mega-corporations are just using the religion thing to keep the masses in line and divided against each other so that they (corps) keep their power.
How so? What do mega corporations have to do with the Christian right? If anything corporations have our politicians by the balls while they make promises to the Christian right.

To see and understand this you should read some of Noam Chomsky's writings, he has pretty much figured out how these "leaders" gained and held on to the control of the world.
You have to acknowledge Jewish influence in America. Jewish bankers control the world along with many media moguls and corporate heads that happen to be Jewish.

The tax system as we know it today was in-part set up to have everyone give their fair share to help the poor regardless of their faith or race. Give a poor man some food and you feed him for a day, teach him how to farm and he will help feed the community.
I know, it all sounds so great and noble. But to gain respect you must first give respect.

I see this "respect" issue in the mid-east region as the major cause of the conflicts there.
Respect is earned not given. You pointed out a fundamental principle of the bible and how our alleged “Christian” leaders are not following it. We continually give aid to Africa but that is all we do; give aid. If we just took over their farming for a while to stabilize the region by feeding the people, give aid to infrastructure the problem would be solved. But we cant do this because its not politically correct and the blacks would rather have their people starve then have evil white “imperialists” have anything to do with their country. Thus we continue to give them aid like morons which is a grave insult to the US. It undermines our intelligence and moral principles. We do exactly that give people food day in and day out with no end in sight.

I also see where the "western corporate governments", thirsty for the oil, are using the respect issue to continue the conflicts there. The British failed in 1917-20 to actually convert the people of Iraq to any form of semi-democratic society when they brought in the missonaries from Europe and tried to force them to change.
If we do not learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. Kind of like Bush force feeding democracy in the Middle East. Islam is incompatible with democracy. I would not want to immigrate Muslims to the US strictly due to the acknowledgement of history and current events. I do not want a replay of Bosnia, French and Aussie Race Riots, the large percentage of Muslim immigrants on welfare in European countries, ethnic and religious intolerance by Muslims, etc. Additionally their religion, culture, form of government, ancestry, and countries are radically different and third world dumps compared to the US and it unfortunately would be a grave error to have our immigration policies allow them.

Just because someone is Christian it doesn’t mean they are perfect. Christians sin as they did by trying to force their religion on Muslims in the Middle East. You even said that Jesus said that people should want to serve God and not be forced to therefore it is apparent why they failed in their endeavors.
 

kattmanduu

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As I said you can't have any greed or capitalism as it has been since the 1800's and still have your required "moral religous society". According to the bible the only real acts of violence done by Jesus was against the vendors and money changers. There is no room for greed or ego in that type of society. No NFL, NASCAR, Hollywood etc. You want a time machine. This country was based on change not a stagnant or motionless system. It allows for free thought, not controlled.
It wasn't ment to be based on any one religion. It allows for you to choose what ever religion you want. Denominations of any one religion don't count as choices of religions, nor can you or anyone dictate what is or isn't a religion. Maybe my god is gray and flys a spaceship. It's my choice and I don't expect you to join my religion. Just RESPECT my rights and I will keep respecting your's. All modern day religions think that their god is the only real god. Iran is a good example of why any government based on any one religion doesn't work.:spin: You can't have a global society as the present day leaders talk about and only one religion. Not ever going to happen. KATT
 

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The name of this party defines it. I use religous reference to point out the fallacies of a government allowing only one religion and still be called a democracy of any kind. Look at Iran, they have had elections etc, but only 1 religion and Dubya isn't happy with that. What is the issue with religion? I am not making it an issue or even a part of the party. It's ok if you want to have a religion, it's a personal choice, but it's not required. To be fair to all is the best way. The government should be void of all religions, the people can have what ever religion they want, is the point I'm trying to make. But keep it a private/personal matter.
And if you ask the people if they would like to be rich or poor, most would choose rich. Not many want to be homeless beggers on a street corner.
That is partially the fault of the lack of: real education in the school system, health care system, fair labor practices by employers and business managers people stuck at "entry level" or minimum wages for more than the training time period. Qualified workers deserve more than survival wages. Bush is using the "Guest Worker" program to bust the unions to help out his corporate partners. Are you a member of a labor union? Is your pay rate etched in stone? Your employer could hire 2 guest workers at the same rate they pay you, and cut your hours thus your pay. Be watching out for changes in labor laws real soon. Oh no I strayed off topic a bit. But it has to do with it in the "big picture" view.
Cause and effect, action and reaction. My topic of this thread is what is needed in this country. We need to get back to basic politics and citizen politicians. Get rid of these professional politicians. Bring the people back in to the system.
We all need to be aware of what our government is doing on our behalf. It's the governments job to ensure the welfare of all the people is always at the forefront of it's actions. The govenment can only operate within the guidelines of the Constitution, anything else it does outside the country to protect the interests of corporations is treasonous. I am all for free, fair and equal trade world wide, with fair labor practices and protection of the environment the same globally. But this is a good subject for another thread. What could you add to the platform of this Free People's Party? Please be constructive and peaceful with your comments and suggestions. Thanks.....KATT
 

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There was a time when if you needed a house you chopped down a few trees and built one, if you were cold you made a fire and warmed yourself at it, if you were hungry you caught a fish and ate it.
A small group of individuals have almost succeeded in their master plan to enslave humanity by cheating the whole world out of every kind of ownership possible. It has been covert until now but soon they won't even bother to hide it and start eliminating cash and confiscations, then they're coming for those that call themselves middle class now. This "ELITE" will own EVERYTHING and what's left will own nothing and serve, this is the ultimate direction that this corporate owned world government is going and they love building and selling weapons, oh almost forgot and using them too. They remind me of mafiosi or the gangster kicking the **** outa some poor bastard, throwing a gun on the floor and threatening with another "pick up the gun" "pick up the gun" and when he does he gets his brains blown out in self defence.
Or your average extorsion racket, "see that guy I just had to shoot for you guys, he was a comin' fo' you, pleny more where he came from, tell ya what here buy this here bodyguard, he'll make sure nothin happens again".
But communism is just another system of the illuminati. It's like you can catch em either way, in capitalism by financial power and in socialism through the system of control already in place. Both are wide open to misuse and in either it's about control power and who owns what. Stalin was also illuminati.
But you know what, when we get rid of these jerks humanity will do very nicely thankyou, I mean, if we survived them all this time and the planet is still here I think we did very well. Imagine what we could do when not under a constant seige by an evil so subtle and elusive bent on sabotage of the human race. Playing all parties against each other and driven by hatred.
Imagine what we can do when humanity has learned this final lesson.
Humanity may exit the womb now!
Be glad though Katt, he who laughs last you know! Because all the money is accumulating now in one place and all the evil too, it's about to reach critical mass and when it does it can real easy go KABOOM!
That's the moment when all free will is taken away, God's greatest gift to mankind, and true evil is at the same moment clearly defined.This makes intervention possible.
Know what they will turn out to be? A virus, but that's no problem anymore once we throw the afterbirth away. Fortunately it's managable, it only attatched itself to the placenta although there will be a minimum of blood cell casualties by the child. He'll be healthy enough though.:lol:
Fourddream
(messenger of the clan of Bride, the midwife.)
 
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kattmanduu said:
As I said you can't have any greed or capitalism as it has been since the 1800's and still have your required "moral religous society". According to the bible the only real acts of violence done by Jesus was against the vendors and money changers.
Jesus wasn't against capitalism he was against using his fathers house as a market place. He even said all money earned should be given to the poor out of moral principle. He never said the government shall provide every need for you.

There is no room for greed or ego in that type of society. No NFL, NASCAR, Hollywood etc. This country was based on change not a stagnant or motionless system. It allows for free thought, not controlled.
So what if if my dream is to be a professional race car driver? You are telling me it's not allowed. People dont go to communist countries for a reason. If I want to work harder then someone else I should be able to do that and the government should hold me down so I can be equal with some lazy bum who doesnt have a work ethic. Capitalism grants the most freedom. All totalitarian regimes are strongly against capitalism.

Iran is a good example of why any government based on any one religion doesn't work.:spin:
Comparing Christianity to Islam is ridiculous. Do you know all of the signers of the declaration of independence and constitution were all white Christian males? The overwhelming majority of them were Christian and actually devout. For instance Thomas Jefferson is said to be a deist by many people, I personally think he was a unitarian. Suppose he was a deist, he still did more for Christianity then GWB. Do you know he put preists on the government payroll? Today the ACLU would scream and say that was a violation of church and state. We clearly have a system of checks and balances but our religion is Christianity and it shouldn't be abolished. Our founding fathers stressed many times that our rights are granted from God and not government and that in order to keep the structure of this society in place that we must have Christianity or this country will fall apart. (Which it is) :(

kattmanduu said:
And if you ask the people if they would like to be rich or poor, most would choose rich. Not many want to be homeless beggers on a street corner.
Then get off your butt and get an education and work. This will make everyone happy and do the best for society because they will be innovative, provide jobs to others, and pay their taxes which can be used to better society as a whole while moving the country forward.

We need to get back to basic politics and citizen politicians. Get rid of these professional politicians. Bring the people back in to the system.
Definitely agree. They should put term limits on politicians.

I am all for free, fair and equal trade world wide, with fair labor practices and protection of the environment the same globally.
Our politicians are elected to look after Americans interest and not the interest of the third world. I dont elect Mr. Bush so he can outsource my job to the third world. We should be an example for other countries and maybe instead of looking to us to fix their problems for them they will look at their own government and fix it themselves.
 

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kattmanduu said:
As I said you can't have any greed or capitalism as it has been since the 1800's and still have your required "moral religous society". According to the bible the only real acts of violence done by Jesus was against the vendors and money changers. There is no room for greed or ego in that type of society. No NFL, NASCAR, Hollywood etc.
Jesus wasn't rebelling against money or capitalism itself, just the fact that the temples were being used for that purpose. One can be very moral and religious and still be wealthy. One can also be poor, a drug addict, and a rapist, and not be very moral. See what I mean? Having a lot of money doesn't mean you're a bad person. Self interest is the fundamental nature of humanity. It doesn't mean you're a bad person at all.
 

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galenrox said:
I've started to question this. As long as people are suffering, can one really morally live a life of luxery? I mean, cause when it comes down to it, you're spending money that could save people's lives on **** you don't really need, is that ok?
I dunno, just a question I think should be considered.
Well, basically, the way I look at it is this. I agree with how Adam Smith said that human self interest generally amounts to the greater good. I do believe we all have a moral obligation to help the poor but I don't see why people can't live luxuriously if they want to. In order to have an efficient economy, not everyone can possibly be wealthy. So we naturally need some people to be richer than others. I just think that having most industry in private hands will lead to the best results. You're probably thinking to yourself, "But what about third world countries?" Well, I think we should help them, but I don't that means we should give up all our money to them. Every nation that's poor has become that way at somewhat because of their own doing. In order for countries to lift themselves out of poverty, they need to not only change their lifestyles but also their sense of morality. Just throwing money at them won't do the trick, they need to want to change themselves.
 

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galenrox said:
I mean, we live in a global community, and as we all know full well things we could do for those who need help if we were just willing to sacrifice more, than does being rich really allow you to still consider yourself moral?
Of course it does. Most people get rich not because they were devious or mean. On the contrary, the people that most often succeed is because they are, in fact, good people. Sometimes, the most moral people are the wealthy. Not always but people who are really successful, it's cause they've just worked hard for it. Some people just inherit wealth but most wealth has been earned. They're people who are focused. They're not out commiting crimes, doing unproductive things, etc.

True morality really has nothing to do with one's level of wealth. But I really do believe that a lot of the time, the most moral people often become wealthy, because of their morality. Also, I think most people who constantly rail against the wealthy are mostly just jealous.

The thing also to keep in mind is that wealthy people contribute to society in ways that most people don't realize. Everytime they invest their money, it helps to not only strengthen our financial markets but also to create more jobs. When too much money is in the hands of the masses, it's just cheap money and there isn't as much opprotunity to create jobs. However, when money is held in a smaller group of hands, it becomes capital. This means that investments are spurred which inevitably creates more jobs and redistributes wealth into the hands of the lower and middle classes. So in order to have a functional and efficient economy, you simply must have a, "hierarchy" of wealth levels.

As far as what Jesus said, consider this. Nothing Jesus said was meant to be taken at a flat, literal level. Rather, the things Jesus said were tiny grains of truth that contained vast knowledge and wisdom. It is good to feed the poor, visit the sick, and other things like these. But that doesn't mean that each and every individual has to go over to a third world country and give away all his money to the people over there. Jesus meant for everyone to be happy. We cannot truly know God's plan for the world or why exactly he allows some people to be wealthier than others. However, we can use our minds and put forth good answers. Just throwing endless amounts of money at a poor person isn't enough to help them out of poverty. They need to be educated and they need to develop a right kind of outlook towards life. But getting back to what I said previously, everyone has a right to live as he or her chooses. If someone wants to say, become wealthy and buy a lot of sports cards and that makes him happy, so be it. God wants everyone to be happy. But don't worry; he has a unique plan for helping the poor in ways we can't imagine. And think about it, do you really think God wants everyone to drive the same car, own the same house, eat the same food, go to the same hang out spots, etc? Think how boring and dismal life would be if that was the case.
 
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galenrox said:
Yeah, there are just some situations that bother me. I look at some of the **** in people's houses and think "Do you really need a crystal railing Wayne Newton? Do you really need penguins in your back yard in Nevada? Do you really need your own zoo? Couldn't that money have been better spent feeding hungry children or looking for the cure to AIDS?" And regardless of how good of a person outside of that he is, I am unable to find a way to justify spending all of that money that could be helping people on pointless **** that he bought from other rich people.
Ah but think about it. Did Mr. Newton really purchase that crystal railing from other rich people? Not really. He bought it from a company that employees workers just like any other establishment. Mr. Newton's purchase probably helped the company and thereby also making the workers better off.

I do see what you mean though about helping to feed starving children and finding cures for AIDS. Those are very worthwhile tasks. If I were a billionare, I would give away money to everybody who has ever been kind to me. Then I would travel to impoverished areas here and abroad and help poor people. I would also give a lot to charities.
 
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