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The disparity between federal and private sector pay...

Rightwingnutjob

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This is a joke: OMB chief calls reports federal employees are overpaid 'misleading' : New Patriot Journal

OMB chief calls reports federal employees are overpaid 'misleading'



OMB chief calls reports federal employees are overpaid 'misleading'

By Tom Shoop - Reprinted from GovernmentExecutive.com

Reports that federal employees are overpaid relative to their private sector counterparts are "misleading," Office of Management and Budget Director Peter R. Orszag said Tuesday.

Speaking at a Government Executive Leadership Briefing, Orszag addressed recent media reports showing that for certain occupations, average salaries are higher in the federal government than in the private sector.
 

mike2810

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What I couldn't find is what the certain noccupations are. Head of agencies don't come close to many CEO pay. State Directors, Forest Supervisors pay is not close imo to many regional bank directors. Some wildland firefighters in the federal side may make more than the private sector. Yet CA CDF pays fftrs more than the feds. So whats the point?

"Speaking at a Government Executive Leadership Briefing, Orszag addressed recent media reports showing that for certain occupations, average salaries are higher in the federal government than in the private sector.
 

Rightwingnutjob

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What I couldn't find is what the certain noccupations are. Head of agencies don't come close to many CEO pay. State Directors, Forest Supervisors pay is not close imo to many regional bank directors. Some wildland firefighters in the federal side may make more than the private sector. Yet CA CDF pays fftrs more than the feds. So whats the point?

"Speaking at a Government Executive Leadership Briefing, Orszag addressed recent media reports showing that for certain occupations, average salaries are higher in the federal government than in the private sector.

The point is that federal or even state employees should not be making more than private sector employees performing the same tasks while on the tax payer's dime.
 

Rightwingnutjob

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Here is an example of such. I'll quote the relevant part, but here's the link to the source: snopes.com: Congressional Pensions


As of 2007, the average annuities for retired members of Congress were $63,696 for those who retired under CSRS and $36,732 for those who retired under FERS. Those figures are quite good (about "2-3 times more generous than what a similarly-salaried executive could expect to receive upon retiring from the private sector," according to the National Taxpayers Union)
 

mike2810

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So should our leaders have the same pay as equalent CEO pay?
 

Rightwingnutjob

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So should our leaders have the same pay as equalent CEO pay?

Who do you constitute as our leaders? And I most certainly don't CEO's manufacture something--some sort of necessity or commodity. Our leaders do not. Pay should not be an incentive to being part of government. If you want to be a part of ther government it should be to uphold what's in the constitution. The purpose of government and buisiness is fundamentally different. Government is meant to serve the populous, buisiness is meant to serve itself.
 

MKULTRABOY

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Who do you constitute as our leaders? And I most certainly don't CEO's manufacture something--some sort of necessity or commodity. Our leaders do not. Pay should not be an incentive to being part of government. If you want to be a part of ther government it should be to uphold what's in the constitution. The purpose of government and buisiness is fundamentally different. Government is meant to serve the populous, buisiness is meant to serve itself.

Yet is there not some sortof similarity in the roles they fill? Same money for the same job type of deal? Leader of the nations is a much bigger job than leader of an y single company in the US.
 

mike2810

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The point is that federal or even state employees should not be making more than private sector employees performing the same tasks while on the tax payer's dime.
OK, I know CDF pays for for their firefighters (forest). Should the pay for feds be raised? Rural Metro (private), pays FFTRs more than the Feds, should we match what Rural Metro Pays?

The govt. and private will pay what will attract and retain employees.
 

Rightwingnutjob

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OK, I know CDF pays for for their firefighters (forest). Should the pay for feds be raised? Rural Metro (private), pays FFTRs more than the Feds, should we match what Rural Metro Pays?

The govt. and private will pay what will attract and retain employees.

Federal employees get better benefits. Do you really believe that the government doesn't over pay itself?
 

cpwill

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So should our leaders have the same pay as equalent CEO pay?

frankly, i think our leaders pay should be a function of average pay for Americans. give them an incentive to stop f*#*$ing the economy.

it also strikes methat revoking the executive order giving federalemployees the right to unionize would be helpful here. in the private sector, unions tend to parasitically kill off the industries they become attached to. in the public sector, heck, it's not like the government is giving up it's own money...
 
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Zyphlin

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I can speak to this a bit personally as my fiance works for DynCorp doing a similar job as an Administrative worker. She's worked in the position for half the amount of time as me (about a year and a half compared to 3 years).

She's currently making around $5,000 a year more than me, she gains .75 hours less vacation time than me a pay period, and has similar retirement and health care benefits. She only gets 6 of the federal holidays off.

Additionally she's set to get another promotion here and raise shortly it seems like (from what her boss told her) which would raise that amount higher.

Compared to the starting point for both of us?

She made $10,000 more, had similar health and retirement benefits, and gained 1.25 hours of vacation time more than me.

I don't know if I can speak to higher ups, but your average government drone compared to the private sector definitely is on the lower end of the pay scale.
 

Rightwingnutjob

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I can speak to this a bit personally as my fiance works for DynCorp doing a similar job as an Administrative worker. She's worked in the position for half the amount of time as me (about a year and a half compared to 3 years).

She's currently making around $5,000 a year more than me, she gains .75 hours less vacation time than me a pay period, and has similar retirement and health care benefits. She only gets 6 of the federal holidays off.

Additionally she's set to get another promotion here and raise shortly it seems like (from what her boss told her) which would raise that amount higher.

Compared to the starting point for both of us?

She made $10,000 more, had similar health and retirement benefits, and gained 1.25 hours of vacation time more than me.

I don't know if I can speak to higher ups, but your average government drone compared to the private sector definitely is on the lower end of the pay scale.

Interesting to learn. Are you sure it's not just because she is more attractive than you? :p
 

mike2810

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Interesting to learn. Are you sure it's not just because she is more attractive than you? :p

Maybe.

Private and Fed/Govt pay has never really been link in pay. I worked for the feds for 30 years. I know the IT people in the Feds were way behind the private sector as far as pay. Yes, there are some jobs that the feds probalbly pay more. Some they pay less. Yes the feds have a good health care plan and not to bad of retirement. Though the new FERS is not as good as the old CSRS system. It is what it is. Heck pay within private sector is not the same. It is what the market will take.
 

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The majority of federal employees should be happy with what they get. Especially if you consider that they aren't really needed in the first place.
 

mike2810

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The majority of federal employees should be happy with what they get. Especially if you consider that they aren't really needed in the first place.

You might be right or not. Depends on what services you are refering to. I would hate to see our federal lands become privatized (Parks, Forest, Public Lands).
 

Aunt Spiker

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You can compare these open job listings that are pure government with similar, non government job-lists and see the difference.
 

Catz Part Deux

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Maybe.

Private and Fed/Govt pay has never really been link in pay. I worked for the feds for 30 years. I know the IT people in the Feds were way behind the private sector as far as pay. Yes, there are some jobs that the feds probalbly pay more. Some they pay less. Yes the feds have a good health care plan and not to bad of retirement. Though the new FERS is not as good as the old CSRS system. It is what it is. Heck pay within private sector is not the same. It is what the market will take.

In my experience, pay in the private sector above the lowest levels is considerably higher in private versus public, and the gap widens markedly the higher you go. Compare what Obama earns, for instance, to what is made by America's average corporate CEO. However, public work has good healthcare benefits, and a good retirement. I think that it's a tradeoff, but it tends to be comparable in some ways.

Compare what the average enlisted guy in the military makes versus the average starting pay in corporate America.
 
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Rightwingnutjob

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In my experience, pay in the private sector above the lowest levels is considerably higher in private versus public, and the gap widens markedly the higher you go. Compare what Obama earns, for instance, to what is made by America's average corporate CEO. However, public work has good healthcare benefits, and a good retirement. I think that it's a tradeoff, but it tends to be comparable in some ways.

Compare what the average enlisted guy in the military makes versus the average starting pay in corporate America.

What makes you think Obama's job is in anyway comparable to that of a CEO? Obama's job is executive; his job is to manage the millitary and enforce the law. Please explain where the correlation is here?
 

obvious Child

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What makes you think Obama's job is in anyway comparable to that of a CEO? Obama's job is executive; his job is to manage the millitary and enforce the law. Please explain where the correlation is here?

Wait. What? The president's job is not similar to a CEO's?

Are you serious?
 

obvious Child

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Yes please explain the correlation.

Incorrect word.

A CEO provides the leadership for a company, vision for the future and top down attitude. They also often have last say on new products, decisions to finance and divesitures
The president provides the leadership for the nation, vision for the future and top down attitude. They sign and veto bills and ultimately bear responsibility for all decisions.

Why do you think they are drastically different?
 

Rightwingnutjob

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Incorrect word.

A CEO provides the leadership for a company, vision for the future and top down attitude. They also often have last say on new products, decisions to finance and divesitures
The president provides the leadership for the nation, vision for the future and top down attitude. They sign and veto bills and ultimately bear responsibility for all decisions.

Why do you think they are drastically different?

Role of the President via the constitution:
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Roles of a CEO via managmenthelp.org:
LEADER
· Advises the Board
· Advocates / promotes organization and stakeholder change related to organization mission
· Supports motivation of employees in organization products/programs and operations

VISIONARY / INFORMATION BEARER
· Ensures staff and Board have sufficient and up-to-date information
· Looks to the future for change opportunities
· Interfaces between Board and employees
· Interfaces between organization and community

DECISION MAKER
· Formulates policies and planning recommendations to the Board
· Decides or guides courses of action in operations by staff

MANAGER
· Oversees operations of organization
· Implements plans
· Manages human resources of organization
· Manages financial and physical resources

BOARD DEVELOPER
· Assists in the selection and evaluation of board members
· Makes recommendations, supports Board during orientation and self-evaluation
· Supports Board's evaluation of Chief Executive
1. Board Administration and Support
Supports operations and administration of Board by advising and informing Board members, interfacing between Board and staff, and supporting Board's evaluation of chief executive

2. Program, Product and Service Delivery
Oversees design, marketing, promotion, delivery and quality of programs, products and services

3. Financial, Tax, Risk and Facilities Management
Recommends yearly budget for Board approval and prudently manages organization's resources within those budget guidelines according to current laws and regulations

4. Human Resource Management
Effectively manages the human resources of the organization according to authorized personnel policies and procedures that fully conform to current laws and regulations

5. Community and Public Relations
Assures the organization and its mission, programs, products and services are consistently presented in strong, positive image to relevant stakeholders

6. Fundraising (nonprofit-specific)
Oversees fundraising planning and implementation, including identifying resource requirements, researching funding sources, establishing strategies to approach funders, submitting proposals and administrating fundraising records and documentation

I fail to see a close enough simillarity between the two in order to justify simillar pays. Now for a lame joke that I couldn't resist. Please don't be insulted, but this should have been obvious, child :lamo :p
 

obvious Child

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You fail to see the similarities because you did not read your links.

You posted how the President oversees basically the government. And how a CEO oversees the company. You then posted how the CEO advises the board, which is similar to the President advising Congress. You then posted how the President fills positions and then cite how a CEO does the same thing with HR.

Right now Republicans are bashing Obama for poor fiscal management. Which is the 4th point in your CEO paragraph. As Bush and Obama and pretty much every president has done, they look to the future and attempt to push policy towards that. Bush for example in his NASA push for Mars. Obama in clean energy. The same fashion how a CEO plans a vision for the future.

It's pretty obvious if you actually read what you posted to see how they are very similar.

If you don't want to read what you post, that's fine. But don't get mad at me when I start being very unpleasant to you by bashing you with your own posts.
 
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