The dishonesty of Intellectual Property Theft.

[Harshaw]

Not always, you can't always find a DVD quality movie on torrent sites, not to mention that most don't include the DVD extras.

It's a rare movie which doesn't have the DVD's complete .iso available somewhere.

You can't steal something you bought.

You didn't buy it.

Am I stealing when I test drive a car?

I think the owner would think so if you lifted it without his knowledge or permission, sure. It would, at the very least, be joyriding, which is a misdemeanor. "Yeah, I took your car, but now I brought it back, and I want to buy it from you." Tell you what -- head over to a car dealer tonight, jack a car, and try it.

They've lost nothing

They didn't get what they were entitled to.

while I've lost my time.

By your own choice.

I think that's more than fair.

I'm sure you do. But you're not the aggrieved party.

It's part and parcel of what a cartel is.
Pricing is similar across the board with new release movies, which smacks of cartelization.

It smack more of being the legitimate market price point. Just because you don't think it's worth it doesn't mean it's not.

These other examples show that it isn't exactly a conspiracy theory as you suggested.

No one is required to go through the MPAA. But you were talking about price, and only price.

 

[Laila]

Yep. I also watched it Stateside when it aired (so they could get the ad dollars). And I own all the DVD's that have been released.

I didn't want my WHO ruined. I cheated, you got me. I admit it, I cheated the BBC system to avoid my experience being ruined. I also have the DVD set pre-ordered.

I used the BBC system to get around the stupid air delay to avoid spoilers. I didn't P2P it, I didn't share it, and I deleted the "copies" upon viewing. So I could safely talk Who on the web without getting my day ruined. Hypocritical? Perhaps you could make the argument that pulling from the BBC like that was wrong.

Don't really care Laila. I fully backed my actions with $$, by watching the aired shows, and having the Discs on order. What I did was go around an artificial air date delay. I did the same thing with "Children of the Earth" after day one spoilers nearly ruined the show for me. No need for staggered airing dates, and the BBC is aware of this and probably will same day air future episodes.

So you want to smack me, go for it. I'm a big boy.

You see Harshaw.
No such thing as a clear area, it's all grey.

You are as much a thief as me or any other "pirate"

And don't worry, every time you preach to anyone. I'm bringing those posts up. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

 

[Renae]

Sure there is, it will be cracked and until the IP holders understand that they must conform to the market place, people will always pirate.

You attempt to drive it off the main internet and it will go towards dark net and open net, where anonymity is high with capture and prosecution being incredibly difficult.

You can't crack STEAM, your device has to get permission to play the content. How many people had their XBOX's diabled from XBOX Live cause they altered their XBOX's to play pirated games? Yeah, that's the future buddy.

 

[Laila]

Oh, THANK YOU!!!!~

I don't know if MSN Player works in your country. Try it. Most of the original and old series of Doctor Who are up.

 

[Renae]

You see Harshaw.
No such thing as a clear area, it's all grey.

You are as much a thief as me or any other "pirate"

And don't worry, every time you preach to anyone. I'm bringing those posts up. Don't throw stones from glass houses

Bring them up.

You steal cause your a cheap skate with no intent on $$ for what you illegally obtain, I went around an air date out of impatience.

My $$ went to them,a nd it won't happen in the future cause the air dates won't be so staggered, speaking of Torchwood, being a STARZ production, will be on Netflix upon airing.

That's the future, and I support it.

You just take, with no intent to $$.

 

[Laila]

I went around an air date out of impatience.

Uh oh.
Don't make me bring out my big old font saying Rationalizing

Thief. Yeah, I said it.
You are no better than me. Come join me down here now you are off your moral ground.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

And that makes actual piracy (you know, the buccaneer kind) OK?

I didn't say that, we're talking about IP piracy.

Oh, you give that a shot. I haven't talked about technological progression.

I know you haven't but you seem resistant to changes within the terms of copyright and IP.
It seems to me, that you're excusing your want for extended monopoly control to support your wanted profit margin and not the margin an open market would bear.

There are numerous legitimate "middle grounds" already available which don't violate any laws. Market-driven, too.

But I will say this -- there is no excuse whatsoever to download a song illegally when you can buy it legitimately for 99 cents. If you have the means to download and play it, you can afford a buck. Simple as that.

I don't have much of a beef with the music arena of IP, I can listen to most songs free of charge before I decide to purchase.
They actually practice, "try before you buy."

Current market driven "solutions" only exist because IP holders can track down and sue commercial suppliers.
There is an even better possibility of market driven sources of IP if the laws in length of ownership are reduced and reformed.

Which insinuation are you referring to? I think I've said everything pretty overtly.

True enough, wrong wording on my part.

 

[Harshaw]

There's a lot of big money to be made by certiain people in trying to maintain the idea of "intellectual property".
The justifications for doing so are in large part rationalizations to allow those people to keep their dough.

This is not an example of anything "illogical" about copyright law.

Assume for a moment that current copyright law is illogical. Do you think that would stop the people who benefit from it from trying to keep it the way it is?

Doesn't matter, because it's not illogical.

No, you copied something you weren't authorized to take. You woudn't have taken anything. There's a big difference.

Considering making copies (legitimately or illegitimately) is the only way to get it, you're not on very solid ground. You have a copy of something, and you didn't pay for that copy.

 

[Renae]

Uh oh.
Don't make me bring out my big old font saying Rationalizing

Thief. Yeah, I said it.
You are no better than me. Come join me down here now you are off your moral ground.

No thanks, cause you are wrong.

Rationalize that.

 

[phattonez]

Considering making copies (legitimately or illegitimately) is the only way to get it, you're not on very solid ground. You have a copy of something, and you didn't pay for that copy.

You pay when you exclude someone of the right of doing something (like buying gas, it means someone else can't use it). However many copies I make, though, no one else is excluded of that right.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

You can't crack STEAM, your device has to get permission to play the content. How many people had their XBOX's diabled from XBOX Live cause they altered their XBOX's to play pirated games? Yeah, that's the future buddy.

I bet yea you can.
There is nothing that is uncrackable.

I know plenty of guys that have pirated games that play all the time, with no problems.
Pirating Xbox games has become a secondary market on it's own. :lol:

 

[Laila]

No thanks, cause you are wrong.

Harshaw has made that my new favourite word.

You see that is what according to Harshaw people do who steal do to justify it. You are attempting to rationalize why you circumvented BBC rules and laws.
Stop rationalizing theft V.

 

[Renae]

I bet yea you can.
There is nothing that is uncrackable.

I know plenty of guys that have pirated games that play all the time, with no problems.
Pirating Xbox games has become a secondary market on it's own. :lol:

And you are proud of this? Yes, you can PLAY Xbox games, you can't go online with them, and your XBOX Live account gets banned.

And no, STEAM is uncrackable. Cause it's server side, not client side.

 

[Laila]

And you are proud of this? Yes, you can PLAY Xbox games, you can't go online with them, and your XBOX Live account gets banned.

And no, STEAM is uncrackable. Cause it's server side, not client side.

Xbox live is horrible anyway.
Full of prepubescent 10 year old boys

 

[Harshaw]

I didn't say that, we're talking about IP piracy.

You were presenting the "ethics" of piracy as some kind of point in favor of its legitimacy.

I know you haven't but you seem resistant to changes within the terms of copyright and IP.

When have I ever said anything about not being favor of any change? If you mean not being in favor of the "open market" you describe, it has nothing to do with technology or change in same.

It seems to me, that you're excusing your want for extended monopoly control to support your wanted profit margin and not the margin an open market would bear.

An "open market" in which anyone is free to copy, distribute, and sell anything would obliterate content creation. That's why protection exists. That's why it's enshrined within the fabric of the Constitution, for that matter.

Current market driven "solutions" only exist because IP holders can track down and sue commercial suppliers.
There is an even better possibility of market driven sources of IP if the laws in length of ownership are reduced and reformed.

There have been leaps in legitimate venues for content distribution over new technology, and prices have dropped considerably around it.

 

[Harshaw]

You pay when you exclude someone of the right of doing something (like buying gas, it means someone else can't use it). However many copies I make, though, no one else is excluded of that right.

No, you don't. You pay when someone produces something and offers it to you for a price. You are not entitled to my work product.

 

[Dav]

This is not an example of anything "illogical" about copyright law.

Well no, but every time I do give an example you just go on about how it's not like that, and I don't know what I'm talking about, without actually refuting the example.

Considering making copies (legitimately or illegitimately) is the only way to get it, you're not on very solid ground. You have a copy of something, and you didn't pay for that copy.

You seem to be completely missing the point. It doesn't matter that copying is the only way to get it; it doesn't change the fact that the "only way to get it", i.e. copying, isn't stealing. You're not taking anything from anyone.

 

[phattonez]

No, you don't. You pay when someone produces something and offers it to you for a price. You are not entitled to my work product.

And if you offer me something for a price that I can get for free, then I'm not going to pay for it. This is why people don't pay for air, because it isn't scarce. Ideas are not scarce.

Just because you work on it does not mean you deserve compensation. We threw out the Labor Theory of Value long ago. I can make a copy of your idea and you will still have the idea. No rights of yours then will have been violated.

 

[BDBoop]

I believe it does; but "old series of Doctor Who are up" - up where?

I don't know if MSN Player works in your country. Try it. Most of the original and old series of Doctor Who are up.

 

[Travelsonic]

You can't crack STEAM.

Apparently it has been done.

You steal cause your a cheap skate with no intent on $$ for what you illegally obtain

I didn't know you werep psychic, and could read people's true intentions. /s

 

[Laila]

I believe it does; but "old series of Doctor Who are up" - up where?

Doctor Who: State Of Decay: Episode 1 on MSN Video

Work for you?

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

It's a rare movie which doesn't have the DVD's complete .iso available somewhere.

I'm sure there is but the movies that I have seen available are either cams or DVDrips with only the movie available.

Why?
Because a lot of people believe in the "try before you buy" ethics of pirating.

You didn't buy it.

In that example I bought it after I tried it.
What does it matter as long as I bought it?

I think the owner would think so if you lifted it without his knowledge or permission, sure. It would, at the very least, be joyriding, which is a misdemeanor. "Yeah, I took your car, but now I brought it back, and I want to buy it from you." Tell you what -- head over to a car dealer tonight, jack a car, and try it.

Well, in practically every other industry, you are allowed to "try before you buy."
Not only that but you usually can return these things for a full cash refund.

Why are IP holders so resistant to allowing the consumer to know what they are buying?

They didn't get what they were entitled to.

No one is entitled to anything, especially if the perceived quality is junk.
The entitlement mentality is what is wrong with IP owners.

By your own choice.

Yep but at least I'm not out the cash.

I'm sure you do. But you're not the aggrieved party.

No one was harmed both physically or financially, there is no aggrieved party.

It smack more of being the legitimate market price point. Just because you don't think it's worth it doesn't mean it's not.

Exactly, that's why the seemingly fixed pricing of an industry with highly subjective material, is quite unusual.

No one is required to go through the MPAA. But you were talking about price, and only price.

Sure they aren't required but people weren't required to use standard oil as source for fuel.
The government still thought it prudent to break the company up even when they didn't have a true market monopoly.
Why the change of heart with the MPAA and movie industry?

I was talking about the cartelization of the industry which you replied to as being "conspiracy theory," to which I am showing multiple reasons of why it is not theory.

 

[Harshaw]

Well no, but every time I do give an example you just go on about how it's not like that, and I don't know what I'm talking about, without actually refuting the example.

Where did that happen?

You seem to be completely missing the point. It doesn't matter that copying is the only way to get it; it doesn't change the fact that the "only way to get it", i.e. copying, isn't stealing. You're not taking anything from anyone.

No, I get it just fine. That copying is the only way to get it is the point. That's why it's called "copy-right." The right to copy.

You're getting a copy you didn't pay for. That there may be infinite copies doesn't matter. That's a market force which can affect price, to be sure, but illicitly obtaining something of value you didn't pay for is theft.

 

[phattonez]

No, I get it just fine. That copying is the only way to get it is the point. That's why it's called "copy-right." The right to copy.

You're getting a copy you didn't pay for. That there may be infinite copies doesn't matter. That's a market force which can affect price, to be sure, but illicitly obtaining something of value you didn't pay for is theft.

If I have to break into your home to make the copy then there is a problem, but who is violated if I copy a CD my friend lent me?

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

And you are proud of this? Yes, you can PLAY Xbox games, you can't go online with them, and your XBOX Live account gets banned.

I don't even own an Xbox, I just know people who buy and know of people who sell pirated Xbox games.

And no, STEAM is uncrackable. Cause it's server side, not client side.

Saints Row 2 Hits Steam, Already Cracked and up for Download - Piracy all over again - Softpedia

:lol: