The destruction of the $15 an hour burger Flipper has arrived.

[MAGAnificent]

Nope, i want to pay more in taxes, i make a ridiculous amount of money and i've been in the top 10% since my early 20s.

You are jumping to ridiculous and provably false conclusions.

If your claim is actually true, feel free to donate bigger checks to the government on tax day. Put your money where your mouth is. However most in their early 20s are not in the top 10% unless you inherited a sizable sum from mommy and daddy....unless you are the rare major sports athlete or musical prodigy.

 

[eohrnberger]

Nope, i want to pay more in taxes, i make a ridiculous amount of money and i've been in the top 10% since my early 20s.

You are jumping to ridiculous and provably false conclusions.

Absentglare, you are free to donate time and / or money to any number of charities who focus on elevating those that need help.

There is no need to make it a government forced charity initiative.

 

[Deuce]

If you were in the business world, you would understand that the pace of automation has vastly picked up due to the minimum wage fight as well as other costs such as complying with that ponzi scheme known as obamacare.

If you were in the technology world, you would understand that this stuff started development long before the recent minimum wage fight, and is inevitable. The hurdle isn't financial, and hasn't been for a while now. The hurdle is technical and social. Ipads cost $600 and launched six years ago. If an ipad can do your job, your job isn't going to last at even 50 cents an hour.

But let's say you're right. Businesses just never thought of reducing costs by reducing the number of employees needed until someone thought a burger flipper should make $15/hour. So what? How much do you really think that accelerated the timeline? A year? Two? Five?

Who gives a **** what year this happens in?

 

[Quazimodo]

To the Proponents of Forced Minimum Wage Laws-

It has just occured to me why Compensation started to flatline in the early 70s. Computers and mechanized manufacturing methods replaced skilled labor. Why should you be paid $15.00 an hour for what a computer can do for free? You are basically obsolete. You want to blame progress on CEOs. Why not take the bull by the horns, be creative, be inventive, be a part of the American Dream and re-invent yourself? Is victimhood so comforting that it has stolen your soul?

 

[Moderate Right]

A boycott won't work. The people at the bottom are desperate, they will sell each other out so that they can put food on the table.

That is why we need a minimum wage- because there's almost always someone else who is willing to take a paycut in exchange for food.

Desperation and scarcity of resources on the low end of the socioeconomic spectrum have this result. These people aren't being deployed productively because they are stuck in a state of panicked desperation.

It doesn't matter how much you like the idea of addressing this problem with government because government is the only tool that exists to really do anything about it.

But then why is the left highly in favor of letting illegals into the country and working for less than minimum wage? Doesn't that undermine the very post you just made?

 

[Moderate Right]

You still haven't answered my questions.

Regarding your Bullet Points;

-It is obvious that you didn't benefit from your free education.

-Who needs a college degree? A college degree is just another good excuse to come home and live with your parents.

-Define prejudice in this context.

-Please provide graphs showing how many CEOs have driven corporations into the ground vs. how many CEOs have NOT driven corporations into the ground.

-"How do I know they're paid too much?" Dr. Erwin Corey has spoken. Your opinion is not proof of anything. Please provide proof.

Regarding your Graph showing a relationship between Productivity and Compensation, well I think you have made point for me. Productivity has skyrocketed while costs have been controlled. That is the job of a good CEO. By controlling costs, a good CEO can deliver goods and services to the public at more stable price points and people can always benefits from lower costs at the grocery stores and department stores. I haven't taken the time to go back to the early 70s to see what sweeping event changed the trajectory of the relationship, but it might have been the beginning of the crushing of the Union choke hold on our economy.

As a CEO, I DON'T owe you anything! Get that through your head. YOU owe me a full day's labor and I will pay you what you are worth, not one penny more. If you don't like that deal, you have the right, and indeed the responsibility to your family to go out and find a better job. If you tell me you can't find a better job, then I'll tell that you have a personal problem and you probably need to go and get counseling from your Pastor.

Please stop playing the part of the victim. It's un-American. If you aren't happy with your status as an American, go someplace else. One less welfare recipient would be good for the economy.

As regards your second graph:
Bwahahahahahahaha!

Oh, Happy 4th of July. May you and your family enjoy the blessings of Liberty.

And who needs a college degree if you can work at McDonalds or Walmart for a "living wage"?

 

[Moderate Right]

Nope, i want to pay more in taxes, i make a ridiculous amount of money and i've been in the top 10% since my early 20s.

You are jumping to ridiculous and provably false conclusions.

There's nothing stopping you from sending Uncle Sam a check.

 

[Moderate Right]

An entirely emotionally based argument. I read in your post little more than envy and hate to those who are and have succeeded, and what appears to be a drive to enforce what you think is right, some 'social justice' meme, by any means necessary.

If you want to raise compensation for no skill / low skill jobs, so better stop letting so many illegal immigrants in to flood that labor market segment. The more you have of something the less the market will compensate, so the more no skill / low skill jobs workers you have the lower the compensation.

The disconnect between compensation and productivity isn't because the successful are punitive or hoarding, and it isn't because businesses are punitive or hoarding. I'd content that the disconnect is due to the information technologies and automation increasing productivity. So your punitive, government driven and government determination of wealth redistribution is going to be so sizable and significant that it'll overcome the effects of information technologies and automation? This hardly sounds reasonable or even possible, without major distortions and damage to the markets.

I notice that you've completely avoided to address this 'better' system of yours.

I say again.

To date, the capitalist system has the best track record for allocation resources to the best market advantage, the best exchanges, where as centrally managed economic systems have all fallen to utter failure, witness any number of socialistic systems that have fallen, such as Venezuela most recently, and communist Russia previously. Non-capitalistic systems have a well established track record of failure. Is this the failure that you wish the US to follow?

I think he actually feels guilty due to his success and subconsciously wants to be forced to pay more in taxes. Consciously though, he sits back and waits for someone to change the laws first because he isn't going to do it without being forced to.

 

[Helix]

There is already pretty much debt free access to college. It just does not include tuition to private colleges or ivy league universities....and it shouldn't. The only fees I had to pay were for books and lab fees.

we've been over this already in other threads. if you'd like to rehash, i'll do that.

 

[eohrnberger]

I think he actually feels guilty due to his success and subconsciously wants to be forced to pay more in taxes. Consciously though, he sits back and waits for someone to change the laws first because he isn't going to do it without being forced to.

I'd revise your first sentence to 'force others to pay more in taxes', and that's part and parcel the problem with a great many of those of the liberal persuasion, it's great until they run out of other people's money to give away to others. Far better would be to 'teach the man to fish', rather than giving away other people's fish, and frankly, it's the greatest disconnect between myself and the present iteration of the liberal mind set.

Previous iteration of the liberal mind set were not nearly as bad as this one, and in my view, bad for the nation, bad for the people's the purport to support, and just bad over all.

 

[Renae]

Keep in mind that your preferred party has nominated a man who thinks he's going to force businesses to bring their jobs back here. (with magic, I guess) And I know you're just thrilled at the man's ideas

I have made it clear I left the GOP over Trump

 

[Absentglare]

I'm quite sure you do, you know can pay as much in taxes as you want. No one is stopping you. Oh, what, you actually won't pay more?

You are confusing a compulsory tax obligation with a donation.

 

[Absentglare]

Minimum wage increases within reason are not job killers. However $15.00 per hour for menial jobs such as a burger flipper is outright insane.

Depends on the region, in downtown New York, San Francisco, etc it isn't so ridiculous. It is costly to live or commute into expensive areas.

 

[Deuce]

But then why is the left highly in favor of letting illegals into the country and working for less than minimum wage? Doesn't that undermine the very post you just made?

Umm we want them to work for more than minimum wage and also pay taxes.

 

[Deuce]

I have made it clear I left the GOP over Trump

Sure, but it's not like you're going to vote Democrat and there's always that local election candidate with an (R) by his or her name and by golly if that person wont just happen to be "one of the good ones."

But that's besides the point. Conservatives are turning out in droves to vote for a man with a (complete horse**** facade) protectionist plan.

 

[Absentglare]

An entirely emotionally based argument. I read in your post little more than envy and hate to those who are and have succeeded, and what appears to be a drive to enforce what you think is right, some 'social justice' meme, by any means necessary.

If you want to raise compensation for no skill / low skill jobs, so better stop letting so many illegal immigrants in to flood that labor market segment. The more you have of something the less the market will compensate, so the more no skill / low skill jobs workers you have the lower the compensation.

The disconnect between compensation and productivity isn't because the successful are punitive or hoarding, and it isn't because businesses are punitive or hoarding. I'd content that the disconnect is due to the information technologies and automation increasing productivity. So your punitive, government driven and government determination of wealth redistribution is going to be so sizable and significant that it'll overcome the effects of information technologies and automation? This hardly sounds reasonable or even possible, without major distortions and damage to the markets.

I notice that you've completely avoided to address this 'better' system of yours.

I say again.

To date, the capitalist system has the best track record for allocation resources to the best market advantage, the best exchanges, where as centrally managed economic systems have all fallen to utter failure, witness any number of socialistic systems that have fallen, such as Venezuela most recently, and communist Russia previously. Non-capitalistic systems have a well established track record of failure. Is this the failure that you wish the US to follow?

Our society is capable of producing far in excess of what is required.

You seem to lack any justification to deprave our poor of the ability to pursue higher education.

There is nothing shameful about receiving assistance early on in life, in fact, no human would ever survive without assistance. Why is governmental assistance bad but parental assistance is good ?

 

[Absentglare]

But then why is the left highly in favor of letting illegals into the country and working for less than minimum wage? Doesn't that undermine the very post you just made?

I think liberals, like myself, prefer the idea that everyone is paid at least the minimum wage.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

If you were in the business world, you would understand that the pace of automation has vastly picked up due to the minimum wage fight as well as other costs such as complying with that ponzi scheme known as obamacare.

If you had as much of a clue about the business world as you suppose, you'd know that automation's been picking up in China's factories at least as quickly as they have here. Are you going to claim, then, that this is because China's paying their workers too much? That we should pay our workers even less than what China pays theirs?

Using automation is cheaper than paying even starvation wages - meaning that your whole freaking argument is null and void.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

This is liberals head in the sand go to line. Every time one of their ideas backfires and makes things worse the go to line is always, "well, it was going to happen anyway".

Really? Automation's picking up in China's factories at least as quickly as it is here. Why? Because it's just like I said - automation's cheaper than paying starvation wages. That is, unless you personally think that China's paying their workers too much....

Automation won't go away, either - it will only grow. It doesn't do us any good to gripe about the things we can't change - and we can't stop the growth of automation. But we CAN insist on living wages for the people who DO have jobs that CAN'T be taken away by automation.

 

[eohrnberger]

Our society is capable of producing far in excess of what is required.

You seem to lack any justification to deprave our poor of the ability to pursue higher education.

There is nothing shameful about receiving assistance early on in life, in fact, no human would ever survive without assistance. Why is governmental assistance bad but parental assistance is good ?

I'm not depraving anyone of anything. All I'm saying is that it needs to be earned rather than given away for free and rendered as worthless when it is given away for free. It's the journey to accomplishment that strengthens people, and it's that strength which is the most valuable. It really doesn't matter what the accomplishment is, as long as it's an accomplishment for that person, they will most certainly be better off having achieved their accomplishment, than having that accomplishment given to them for free.

 

[MAGAnificent]

If you were in the technology world, you would understand that this stuff started development long before the recent minimum wage fight, and is inevitable. The hurdle isn't financial, and hasn't been for a while now. The hurdle is technical and social. Ipads cost $600 and launched six years ago. If an ipad can do your job, your job isn't going to last at even 50 cents an hour.

I am in the technology world and have installed and maintained some of the automation.

But let's say you're right. Businesses just never thought of reducing costs by reducing the number of employees needed until someone thought a burger flipper should make $15/hour. So what?
How much do you really think that accelerated the timeline? A year? Two? Five?

The ability to automate has been around for quite a while. However it has not alway been practical and is certainly not cheap. Much of the timing is based on necessity. Just from what I have seen, the biggest acceleration came when obamacare passed. And you must be noticing that since left wing nut jobs have been pushing for an unrealistic $15.00 minimum wage , the pace has quickly accelerated in the fast food industry. Again, the cost of automation is prohibitively expensive. Many businesses have to be driven to the point where they do it.

Who gives a **** what year this happens in?

Low or unskilled workers will probably care. We are still a long ways from automating most of the high skill jobs.

 

[MAGAnificent]

But then why is the left highly in favor of letting illegals into the country and working for less than minimum wage? Doesn't that undermine the very post you just made?

That is what is so laughable about the left. On one hand they claim to want to help the low wage earner, but on the other hand, they want to just open up the borders and allow millions of illegals in who are willing to work for less....just because they think illegal immigration will change the voting demographics in their favor. it is illegal aliens that play a big part in keeping the wages down.

 

[MAGAnificent]

And who needs a college degree if you can work at McDonalds or Walmart for a "living wage"?

Bingo.....if one does not have to improve ones skills or learn new skills, where is the incentive to train for the higher paying fields like doctors, lawyers, arhitects, etc.

 

[beerftw]

CEO wages are disproportionate. That is a problem.

Not so much, if you fired the ceo of mcdonalds and gave all his pay to his employees, they would see maybe 20 dolars more a year on their check.

 

[MAGAnificent]

we've been over this already in other threads. if you'd like to rehash, i'll do that.

We certainly can if you like, however it will not change the facts. In most states, there is access to nearly free college. And the taxpayers shoould not be expected to fund anyone's education at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc.If someone wants to go to the top colleges without paying, they should put some work into competing for scolarships. With all due respect to Bernie sanders, Im sure he means well, the kind of free education he is pushing borders on insane.