The destruction of the $15 an hour burger Flipper has arrived.

[Absentglare]

If people are so upset with CEO's wages then why don't they just boycott whatever company it is? There is plenty of competition in just about all industries where you can buy products from the little guy and stiff the ones who pay CEO's outrageously high wages?

A boycott won't work. The people at the bottom are desperate, they will sell each other out so that they can put food on the table.

That is why we need a minimum wage- because there's almost always someone else who is willing to take a paycut in exchange for food.

Desperation and scarcity of resources on the low end of the socioeconomic spectrum have this result. These people aren't being deployed productively because they are stuck in a state of panicked desperation.

It doesn't matter how much you like the idea of addressing this problem with government because government is the only tool that exists to really do anything about it.

 

[Absentglare]

Of course.

That's true, and one could easily see a runaway feedback loop (financial bubble) forming from this.

Nope. The gain is ridiculously small on that feedback loop. Don't make me laugh.

If we more than DOUBLE the minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 per hour, then we will see increased costs between 4% and 25%.

That's :

> 100% increase in labor costs
25% increase in prices

That positive feedback loop will fizzle out almost immediately.

 

[Quazimodo]

This is just incoherent, rhetorical rambling.

A college degree costs a considerable amount of money, so that's completely wrong.

Rambling about anti-liberal prejudice is boring.

The CEO is responsible to the shareholders and the shareholders are not holding them accountable for their salaries. As a grunt, the company does a great job trying to keep my salary low, but the CEO meets no such resistance. They are paid ludicrous amounts of money to basically drive companies into the ground on a routine basis.

How do i know they're paid too much ? Because they got a 10x pay raise for no reason while the rest of us have had flat wages :

Meanwhile, CEO pay is uncorrelated to CEO performance :

You still haven't answered my questions.

Regarding your Bullet Points;

-It is obvious that you didn't benefit from your free education.

-Who needs a college degree? A college degree is just another good excuse to come home and live with your parents.

-Define prejudice in this context.

-Please provide graphs showing how many CEOs have driven corporations into the ground vs. how many CEOs have NOT driven corporations into the ground.

-"How do I know they're paid too much?" Dr. Erwin Corey has spoken. Your opinion is not proof of anything. Please provide proof.

Regarding your Graph showing a relationship between Productivity and Compensation, well I think you have made point for me. Productivity has skyrocketed while costs have been controlled. That is the job of a good CEO. By controlling costs, a good CEO can deliver goods and services to the public at more stable price points and people can always benefits from lower costs at the grocery stores and department stores. I haven't taken the time to go back to the early 70s to see what sweeping event changed the trajectory of the relationship, but it might have been the beginning of the crushing of the Union choke hold on our economy.

As a CEO, I DON'T owe you anything! Get that through your head. YOU owe me a full day's labor and I will pay you what you are worth, not one penny more. If you don't like that deal, you have the right, and indeed the responsibility to your family to go out and find a better job. If you tell me you can't find a better job, then I'll tell that you have a personal problem and you probably need to go and get counseling from your Pastor.

Please stop playing the part of the victim. It's un-American. If you aren't happy with your status as an American, go someplace else. One less welfare recipient would be good for the economy.

As regards your second graph:
Bwahahahahahahaha!

Oh, Happy 4th of July. May you and your family enjoy the blessings of Liberty.

 

[Absentglare]

You still haven't answered my questions.

Regarding your Bullet Points;

-It is obvious that you didn't benefit from your free education.

-Who needs a college degree? A college degree is just another good excuse to come home and live with your parents.

-Define prejudice in this context.

-Please provide graphs showing how many CEOs have driven corporations into the ground vs. how many CEOs have NOT driven corporations into the ground.

-"How do I know they're paid too much?" Dr. Erwin Corey has spoken. Your opinion is not proof of anything. Please provide proof.

Regarding your Graph showing a relationship between Productivity and Compensation, well I think you have made point for me. Productivity has skyrocketed while costs have been controlled. That is the job of a good CEO. By controlling costs, a good CEO can deliver goods and services to the public at more stable price points and people can always benefits from lower costs at the grocery stores and department stores. I haven't taken the time to go back to the early 70s to see what sweeping event changed the trajectory of the relationship, but it might have been the beginning of the crushing of the Union choke hold on our economy.

As a CEO, I DON'T owe you anything! Get that through your head. YOU owe me a full day's labor and I will pay you what you are worth, not one penny more. If you don't like that deal, you have the right, and indeed the responsibility to your family to go out and find a better job. If you tell me you can't find a better job, then I'll tell that you have a personal problem and you probably need to go and get counseling from your Pastor.

Please stop playing the part of the victim. It's un-American. If you aren't happy with your status as an American, go someplace else. One less welfare recipient would be good for the economy.

As regards your second graph:
Bwahahahahahahaha!

Oh, Happy 4th of July. May you and your family enjoy the blessings of Liberty.

I'm not interested in whatever personal insecurities you might have.

- people who do real work need things like college degrees.
- a dictionary can help you with any words you don't understand.
- no thanks.
- since "paid too much" is an opinion, yes, it is a fact that my opinion is that they are paid too much. I don't need to submit any proof other than my statement.

I understand that many people believe a "good CEO" to be one that exploits everyone else in the economy as much as possible. The problem there is that greedy, lazy, rich people keep wanting a pay raise without having to work for it, so they keep pushing Uncle Sam toward tax cuts on their end of the spectrum. They bribe politicians for these tax cuts, but it's okay, because the tax cuts secure far more money for them in terms of income.

And it's not like these greedy, lazy, rich people are even aware of what they're doing to our economy. Indeed, i believe they are blissfully unaware that they've been overpaid for 50 years, as they are often of only average intelligence. And surely they often do not understand how their exorbitant salaries relate to the economic conditions that the poor are subjected to.

 

[Quazimodo]

I'm not interested in whatever personal insecurities you might have.

- people who do real work need things like college degrees.
- a dictionary can help you with any words you don't understand.
- no thanks.
- since "paid too much" is an opinion, yes, it is a fact that my opinion is that they are paid too much. I don't need to submit any proof other than my statement.

I understand that many people believe a "good CEO" to be one that exploits everyone else in the economy as much as possible. The problem there is that greedy, lazy, rich people keep wanting a pay raise without having to work for it, so they keep pushing Uncle Sam toward tax cuts on their end of the spectrum. They bribe politicians for these tax cuts, but it's okay, because the tax cuts secure far more money for them in terms of income.

And it's not like these greedy, lazy, rich people are even aware of what they're doing to our economy. Indeed, i believe they are blissfully unaware that they've been overpaid for 50 years, as they are often of only average intelligence. And surely they often do not understand how their exorbitant salaries relate to the economic conditions that the poor are subjected to.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It provides ample evidence that you will never need or get a better paying job.

Again, Happy 4th of July. May the blessings of liberty...and freedom from corporate oppression...comfort you in your time of need.

 

[eohrnberger]

Where are we going to get the money to ensure that Americans get a living wage ?

Same place where all the wages have come from, the people need to earn it. If you want to elevate the people's compensation, they are going to have elevate the market value of the contributions that their work brings.

Giving it away for free isn't the solution, as all you'll do is make these people dependent hand outs, perhaps permanently.

Are you telling me that it costs too much money to ... Basically only provide food and housing ... At our level of technological development in the wealthiest nation in the world ?

Start handing out benefits for free, the demand that everyone gets something is going to explode beyond what anyone can imagine, probably beyond the entire GDP of the entire US economy.

We can't afford to find a place for everybody in society ? What you're basically claiming is that we cannot raise the minimum wage OR raise taxes on the rich OR deficit spend. You are laughably wrong on all three points. We could do all of these things, if we had the political will to stop funneling such a huge lion's share of our resources to so few that some of us starve to death.

Again, by which mechanism do you plan to implement this redistribution of wealth? You've yet to answer this fundamental question.

 

[Deuce]

Same place where all the wages have come from, the people need to earn it. If you want to elevate the people's compensation, they are going to have elevate the market value of the contributions that their work brings.

...they have. Compensation has not kept pace.

 

[Absentglare]

Same place where all the wages have come from, the people need to earn it. If you want to elevate the people's compensation, they are going to have elevate the market value of the contributions that their work brings.

Giving it away for free isn't the solution, as all you'll do is make these people dependent hand outs, perhaps permanently.



Start handing out benefits for free, the demand that everyone gets something is going to explode beyond what anyone can imagine, probably beyond the entire GDP of the entire US economy.



Again, by which mechanism do you plan to implement this redistribution of wealth? You've yet to answer this fundamental question.

The society is the boss of the employers. Raising the minimum wage is elevating the market value. Our country negotiated higher base wages.

We've been giving the richest among us pay raises without them having to work any harder for it for decades. It's time for the poor to get ONE raise, in fact, it's long overdue.

 

[Renae]

That's because you are woefully ignorant of economics. The CGT is not a red herring, it is directly related to inequality. Things like CGT are why Romney, who makes two orders of magnitude more income than i do, pays a lower tax rate than i do. That kind of redistribution, giving the rich people a pay raise for sitting on their asses, is a destructive form of redistribution, and there's really no justification for it.

Wall street is not superior to the real economy that actually produces things, it is supposed to help support the profitable deployment of capital. Instead, it's become more important than actually working. What you do with a 15% CGT and 20-40% income tax rate is tell everybody who works 40+ hours a week for a living that their work is less valuable than some rich, lazy person whose sole contribution to the economy is plopping their economic weight in some stocks.

I never said profit is bad. You made that up.

You social justice message is your red herring. You are making things up and attributing them to me. Please address what i actually say.

He makes two orders of magnitude more then you because he's smarter and works harder. Everything else in this post is whining about "Gimmie gimmie gimmie" what I did not deserve, earn or achieve.

 

[Deuce]

He makes two orders of magnitude more then you because he's smarter and works harder. Everything else in this post is whining about "Gimmie gimmie gimmie" what I did not deserve, earn or achieve.

Does he work two orders of magnitude harder than me because that's literally impossible

 

[Absentglare]

He makes two orders of magnitude more then you because he's smarter and works harder. Everything else in this post is whining about "Gimmie gimmie gimmie" what I did not deserve, earn or achieve.

Nope, i want to pay more in taxes, i make a ridiculous amount of money and i've been in the top 10% since my early 20s.

You are jumping to ridiculous and provably false conclusions.

 

[jet57]

Momentum Machines robot-powered restaurant is opening in San Francisco - Tech Insider

The real question is, doe it come with a Fry Hopper?

It was coming out long before $15 an hour. They'd do it for $7 an hour: never takes a sick day, doesn't have kids, always on time. The City though, may outlaw it.

 

[Renae]

It was coming out long before $15 an hour. They'd do it for $7 an hour: never takes a sick day, doesn't have kids, always on time. The City though, may outlaw it.

They might. It would take protectionist idiocy liberal government to stop progress.

 

[Renae]

Nope, i want to pay more in taxes, i make a ridiculous amount of money and i've been in the top 10% since my early 20s.

You are jumping to ridiculous and provably false conclusions.

I'm quite sure you do, you know can pay as much in taxes as you want. No one is stopping you. Oh, what, you actually won't pay more?

 

[Deuce]

They might. It would take protectionist idiocy liberal government to stop progress.

Keep in mind that your preferred party has nominated a man who thinks he's going to force businesses to bring their jobs back here. (with magic, I guess) And I know you're just thrilled at the man's ideas

 

[jet57]

That's because you are woefully ignorant of economics. The CGT is not a red herring, it is directly related to inequality. Things like CGT are why Romney, who makes two orders of magnitude more income than i do, pays a lower tax rate than i do. That kind of redistribution, giving the rich people a pay raise for sitting on their asses, is a destructive form of redistribution, and there's really no justification for it.

Wall street is not superior to the real economy that actually produces things, it is supposed to help support the profitable deployment of capital. Instead, it's become more important than actually working. What you do with a 15% CGT and 20-40% income tax rate is tell everybody who works 40+ hours a week for a living that their work is less valuable than some rich, lazy person whose sole contribution to the economy is plopping their economic weight in some stocks.

I never said profit is bad. You made that up.

You social justice message is your red herring. You are making things up and attributing them to me. Please address what i actually say.

Yeah, and here;s the problem with wickets like Romney: to tax capital gains is "to discourage investment"... That's the argument, and we a 10% in this country who make a hell of a lot of many just sittin on their asses. THAT - is the inequality, not how much someone makes an hour.

These people hold the US economy hostage, as any attempt to tax said income only means that they'll pull their investments, or "strike". I say tax'em and let 'em hit the bricks and see how they like it.

 

[jet57]

They might. It would take protectionist idiocy liberal government to stop progress.

There are no walmarts in the city... All people have to do is not go there, and there goes THAT idea.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

But you know what? Some of us, probably you as well, prefer locally owned restaurants. Chain restaurants are crap. There's nothing better for breakfast than a local squat and gobble where real cooks cook real food that caters to local tastes.

Lunch is often the same preference. Give me locally owned food vendors with family and extended family working hard to provide good food to their neighbors and friends who have been customers for years.

Screw chain restaurants and screw a bunch of robots. Gimme real food and real restaurants.

Tech world can push all that crap to us all day but in the end I believe patrons are already going back to real food in real restaurants served by real people. The robot food in robot chain restaurants will be a flash in the pan. Pun intended.

let's just hope that those mom and pop restaurants are not killed off by the $15.00 an hour minimum wage fanatics.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Do you really think that not passing $15/hr wages would somehow have prevented this? Automation is coming, and once in place is cheaper than paying freaking starvation wages.

If you were in the business world, you would understand that the pace of automation has vastly picked up due to the minimum wage fight as well as other costs such as complying with that ponzi scheme known as obamacare.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Then why is this a bad thing ?

It is for teenagers and young adults attempting to get their foot in the door to earn a living, as well as many of the workers already employed. For instance at Walmart and many other retail chains, with self checkouts, one attendant replaces eight cashiers.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

I don't think the minimum wage is a ludicrous economic demand. If anything is a ludicrous economic demand, it's CEO pay and preferential capital gains tax treatment.

Minimum wage increases within reason are not job killers. However $15.00 per hour for menial jobs such as a burger flipper is outright insane.

 

[eohrnberger]

...they have. Compensation has not kept pace.

Hmm.

• Every year, over 1.2 million students drop out of high school in the United States alone. That’s a student every 26 seconds – or 7,000 a day.
• About 25% of high school freshmen fail to graduate from high school on time.
• The U.S., which had some of the highest graduation rates of any developed country, now ranks 22nd out of 27 developed countries.
• The dropout rate has fallen 3% from 1990 to 2010 (12.1% to 7.4%).
• The percentage of graduating Latino students has significantly increased. In 2010, 71.4% received their diploma vs. 61.4% in 2006. However, Asian-American and white students are still far more likely to graduate than Latino & African-American students.

https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-high-school-dropout-rates

It would seem that the high school drop out rate disagrees with you.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

i prefer independent local restaurants. the GF and i ate at one tonight, and it was awesome. however, i do still dig McDonalds, and i expect it will be automated as soon as it's economically feasible.

as for minimum wage, i support having one, and i also support tying it to inflation. at this point, it's not going to be fifteen bucks an hour, though. we'd be better off guaranteeing debt free access to college / post secondary job training as we do with high school. we could make completion of the degree a condition. that would do more to help the kiddos than a high minimum wage, IMO.

There is already pretty much debt free access to college. It just does not include tuition to private colleges or ivy league universities....and it shouldn't. The only fees I had to pay were for books and lab fees.

 

[eohrnberger]

The society is the boss of the employers. Raising the minimum wage is elevating the market value. Our country negotiated higher base wages.

We've been giving the richest among us pay raises without them having to work any harder for it for decades. It's time for the poor to get ONE raise, in fact, it's long overdue.

An entirely emotionally based argument. I read in your post little more than envy and hate to those who are and have succeeded, and what appears to be a drive to enforce what you think is right, some 'social justice' meme, by any means necessary.

If you want to raise compensation for no skill / low skill jobs, so better stop letting so many illegal immigrants in to flood that labor market segment. The more you have of something the less the market will compensate, so the more no skill / low skill jobs workers you have the lower the compensation.

The disconnect between compensation and productivity isn't because the successful are punitive or hoarding, and it isn't because businesses are punitive or hoarding. I'd content that the disconnect is due to the information technologies and automation increasing productivity. So your punitive, government driven and government determination of wealth redistribution is going to be so sizable and significant that it'll overcome the effects of information technologies and automation? This hardly sounds reasonable or even possible, without major distortions and damage to the markets.

I notice that you've completely avoided to address this 'better' system of yours.

I say again.

To date, the capitalist system has the best track record for allocation resources to the best market advantage, the best exchanges, where as centrally managed economic systems have all fallen to utter failure, witness any number of socialistic systems that have fallen, such as Venezuela most recently, and communist Russia previously. Non-capitalistic systems have a well established track record of failure. Is this the failure that you wish the US to follow?

 

[joG]

Hmm.



It would seem that the high school drop out rate disagrees with you.

Funny to think of kids at high school as students and not as school children. That might be part of the problem.