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The Dangers of Gun Control

That is one way of looking at it. The founders were also very logical. So...

People have to have guns to form a militia [ at least in colonial times forward ]... so, while they may have put this right of the people last, it must, logically, come first.

So that we are clear, you are also saying we should have more militias? That is the Constitutional imperative of this right?
I am saying that the concept of a militia is antiquated and the National guard does the job the framers intended. At the time the constitution was written some governments forbid the ownership of guns so that the citizenry could not form a militia and fight off a repressive government.
In practical terms those times are over. No militia is going to " fight off" the US government if they believe they are being represed. all the AK47s in the world in private hands will not change the course of the United States of America. It is a paranoid pipe dream to think they will.
The second amendment was written by revolutionaries at the time of their revolution and was never updated to reflect the current times.
The time for American revolutions at the point of a gun are long since over. Grow up.
 
I am saying that the concept of a militia is antiquated and the National guard does the job the framers intended. At the time the constitution was written some governments forbid the ownership of guns so that the citizenry could not form a militia and fight off a repressive government.
In practical terms those times are over. No militia is going to " fight off" the US government if they believe they are being represed. all the AK47s in the world in private hands will not change the course of the United States of America. It is a paranoid pipe dream to think they will.
The second amendment was written by revolutionaries at the time of their revolution and was never updated to reflect the current times.
The time for American revolutions at the point of a gun are long since over. Grow up.

LOL one 25 dollar rifle wielded by a second rate shooter managed to change the USA in 1963. and some clown with two same names and a 65 dollar handgun managed to change our history again right before the 1968 presidential elections.
 
I am saying that the concept of a militia is antiquated and the National guard does the job the framers intended. At the time the constitution was written some governments forbid the ownership of guns so that the citizenry could not form a militia and fight off a repressive government.
In practical terms those times are over. No militia is going to " fight off" the US government if they believe they are being represed. all the AK47s in the world in private hands will not change the course of the United States of America. It is a paranoid pipe dream to think they will.
The second amendment was written by revolutionaries at the time of their revolution and was never updated to reflect the current times.
The time for American revolutions at the point of a gun are long since over. Grow up.

Here is the deal, the concept, if the people have the guns, they have the ultimate power, if the government has all the guns, they have the ultimate power. The framers of our Constitution understood that very well. And guess what? We have stayed in control of our government thus far, correct? System works dang pretty well. It ain't broke, so no use wasting time and effort fixing it.

Certainly militias, or individuals, could fight off the American government. There are currently 1,430,000 in our active Armed Forces. There are about 300 million guns out there...and over 310 million of us. I know who I'd put my money on right now. And I would say those folks in Afghanistan have done a pretty good job and most of them are from the stone age educationally, the more educated Iraqis gave the American military a pretty hard time and really only because some were so stupid as to treat locals so inhospitably creating the climate for an Anbar Awakening in which our former enemies sided with us against the Al Qeada elements...

...well, you are all growed up, so I am sure you get the point. I 'm gonna tell you anyhow, just in case... in our system we do not have to have a revolution, we have what is known as deterrence... our government knows they do not have the power, it is understood, we don't need to have revolutions at the point of a gun, that's the real genius of the system... thank you founding fathers/framers.
 
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LOL one 25 dollar rifle wielded by a second rate shooter managed to change the USA in 1963. and some clown with two same names and a 65 dollar handgun managed to change our history again right before the 1968 presidential elections.
You condone assassination?... Got it.
Those examples you just gave are a great argument for gun control and regulation, not an argument for your misreading of the second amendment
When you are holed up in a cabin on the woods having a shoot out with the FBI and the ATF because you don't like some law or regulation, Jefferson will not be with you in spirit or word.
 
You condone assassination?... Got it.
Those examples you just gave are a great argument for gun control and regulation, not an argument for your misreading of the second amendment
When you are holed up in a cabin on the woods having a shoot out with the FBI and the ATF because you don't like some law or regulation, Jefferson will not be with you in spirit or word.

You condone mass genocide and baby murder?

now that we have the strawmen out of the way I was merely pointing out the massive fail in your claims.

if some politician becomes a cancer, I like the fact that there are millions of Americans who have the means of performing a surgery. Its too bad such things didn't happen with say Hitler or Stalin or Mao.

what do you think the Second Amendment is about if its not using violence to rid Americans of an evil government or despotic overlords?
 
what do you think the Second Amendment is about if its not using violence to rid Americans of an evil government or despotic overlords?
The American founders were revolutionaries who had just won their revolution against a repressive colonial government 3000 miles away who still had colonial control and governmental influence over at least half the world.
It was not at all outside the realm of possibility that the Brits could return to America to regain colonial control... or that another colonial power like France may decide to take control of what they had helped take from the Brits. There was no guarantee that the USA's autonomy would continue for more than a few years. Jefferson and the others were well aware of that imminent threat.
The second amendment was put in our constitution to insure that if any major power did try to take colonial control of America, Americans would be ready with a well armed, well regulated and well organized civilian militia, ready to fight again as they had just done.
I sincerely believe that this is the reason the second amendment was included in the constitution and why that single sentence was worded just as it was.
Obviously Great Briton or France or any other governmental entity are no longer a threat to the sovereignty of the USA. This makes the second amendment arcane and obsolete. The third amendment is similarly arcane and obsolete. No government's army is going to try to force Americans to house their troops against their will.
The rights of US citizenry to posses firearms should be regulated and controlled in a sane manner as most of the civilized world has already done.
 
You aren't going to get much traction arguing that the Second Amendment is "obsolete."
 

This is one topic that I do not have a definitive position on. We have three guns in our house, locked up, and set aside in case of emergency. I'm fine and comfortable with that. I wouldn't be comfortable with walking into a bank that had 30 people holding guns on them, especially in this country. Why? Because people are unhappy here, and mad, and filled with so much hatred from the lies spewed from the mainstream media about what Obama wants, or what this particular political affiliation wants, or who said what. All it takes is a bad week at work, a bad week at home, and then all of that hatred and anger built up over the years to make a person snap at someone who looked at them funny, and suddenly one of those 30 good citizens immediately becomes a bad citizen with a gun. Then what if that person happened to be at the bank with three of their friends that also had guns? Now you suddenly have those three people protecting the life of that one person who snapped because society pushed them there. So in this scenario it's okay for there to be a citizen breakout of shooting between each other, killing one another and innocent bystanders? Who should be arrested in this case? Why would it be okay for a citizen who "was defending everyone" to get away with killing several people just because he/she didn't pull the gun out first?

I believe in stricter gun laws in this country but I do not believe that everyone should lose their guns either (even though I don't believe that stripping everyone of their current guns has ever been Obama's actual plan) and I don't believe that is going to make us more of a dangerous country than we already are. Something needs to change and I think hiding behind the "if Obama even suggests stricter gun regulations then we need to impeach him because he is going against his oath" statements is even more dangerous than just handling this situation and coming up with an avenue that gets us in a better direction. If you do not have anything to hide then you shouldn't ever feel violated by having a background check run on you when you want to purchase another gun. It personally makes me suspicious when I see people start to panic at the idea of having to fill out a background check to buy another gun. It makes me wonder what they're trying to hide from the public "that they're just planning to protect if necessary."

That is going to happen in any event, the criminal is not worried about any gun laws, hence the label of a criminal. I would rather have a chance, or have some good Samaritan walking by that may have a gun be able to act for the good. What if you had your daughter with you and the perp wanted to take her as well... you would not want at least some sort of "equalizer" on your side to try to stop him?

Asking "pretty please" is probably not gonna do it in most instances.

My problem here is that I feel it is too easy for someone to claim that the homeless person sitting on the corner was doing something violent and inappropriate when it fact that homeless person could have just as easily been getting up to stretch their legs. When I hear reports in the news about homeless people in general it is never that they have attacked anyone, it's that they have been attacked and beaten by a hateful passerby. I don't believe that there is enough mental stability in this country to let anyone who wants to walk around with a gun be allowed to. That's one way that I feel helps protect my safety. I'm sorry but there are way too many bad people in this country for me to assume that a person walking by me carrying a gun has good intentions. If there is anything that Americans have taught me since September 11th it is to trust them a hell of a lot less because this country is filled with a bunch of ignorant and crazy lunatics with their heads screwed on the wrong way. Let's fix that problem first and then I won't care who has a gun.

:lol: :doh OK, Skippy, why does one need a 2A rights rental agreement to stop an insane moron from committing mass murder? :roll:

I am advocating a system of universal BG checks but not using point of sale checks via FFL dealers to do so. When your state issued, photo ID is initially granted, updated or renewed then a BG check is done as part of that process; if you pass the NICS BG check, and are an adult U.S. citizen, then your ID is stamped "GUN OK" and that allows you to buy guns, ammo and to carry a gun. If you are later convicted of a felony, adjudged to be mentally incompetent or placed under a judicial protective order then you must surrender your "GUN OK" ID and the NICS database is updated.

My state updates licenses every three years. Some states update their licenses every seven years. I would be okay with your background check idea if we then changed the renewal of our drivers licenses to every year. A lot can happen in a year and being okay to purchase a gun in the beginning of the year doesn't mean you haven't done something illegal six months later.
 
[snip...]
My state updates licenses every three years. Some states update their licenses every seven years. I would be okay with your background check idea if we then changed the renewal of our drivers licenses to every year. A lot can happen in a year and being okay to purchase a gun in the beginning of the year doesn't mean you haven't done something illegal six months later.

The things that can happen making one no longer "GUN OK" all (should) require due process of law. These things are: being convicted of a felony and recieving a minimum of a one year sentence, being adjudged mentally incompetent or being served a judicial protection order. In all cases (except fugative/escape status) the person can simply be relieved of their "GUN OK" ID, all guns/ammo present and the NICS database is updated preventing "GUN OK" ID reissue. In the case of the fugative, as with all not yet identified as "bad guys", they would still be allowed to buy further arms even from legitimate sources. The problem with any "gun control" is the same problem that we now have with a nationwide ban on (most) recreational drugs - they are readily available outside of the legitimate sources. The "best" gun control scheme imaginable will still have this gaping hole in it.
 
Fail. You need to learn what "militia" meant when it was written. Clue...it wasn't a "national guard."


That is all one sentence. One complete thought. If it were written as two sentences the meaning would be entirely different and more like what the OP is trying to say. But it isn't ...it's one sentence
The right of the people to "keep and bear arms" is for the purpose of keeping a well regulated militia.
That made sense when it was written as we had just won a populist guerrilla war against a colonial oppressor. That "well regulated militia" is now called the National Guard and they supply the weapons.
 
Fail. You need to learn what "militia" meant when it was written. Clue...it wasn't a "national guard."

I tend to find that factual accuracy has little meaning to those who want to complain about others who want to own guns. To the gun haters, Its not about stopping crime, its not about being historically accurate, its not about the constitution, rather its a seething disgust with people who won't outsource their own personal safety to the state and hide trembling under their bed waiting for big brother to come and save them

those who do outsource that personal responsibility tend to be contemptuous of those of us who are a bit more independent
 
I think they just fear that which they don't understand along with having to be responsible for anything.
 
Fail. You need to learn what "militia" meant when it was written. Clue...it wasn't a "national guard."
I understand and comprehend fully the meaning of the word "militia" both then and now;
mi·li·tia [mi-lish-uh]
noun
1.
a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
2.
a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
The "Minute men" were militia members made up of ordinary citizens who owned their own muskets and pistols and were at ready in a minute to do battle and make war. They were not professional soldiers. Much of the fighting in the revolutionary war was carried out by these ordinary citizens USING THEIR OWN WEAPONS. This is exactly what Jefferson was referring to when the 2nd amendment was written.
The National Guard grew directly out of the minutemen and to this day show a minute man with musket in hand as their insignia.
National_Guard_Logo.svg.webp
IT IS YOU CALGUN WHO FAILS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A MILITIA IS AND YOU HAVE DEMONSTRATED YOUR IGNORANCE OF WHAT THE NATIONAL GUARD IS AND WHERE THE ORGANIZATION GREW FROM..

Here, ... read and learn;
A bit of research into the legal background of the National Guard can be revealing.

There is of course the modern 10 US Code §311, which defines the unorganized militia of the U.S. as essentially all males 18-45 and certain women, and the organized militia as essentially the National Guard. There are also various State statutes (Arizona's defines the state militia to include women as well as men).

10 U.S.C. §311 dates from the Dick Act of 1903, which repealed the Militia Law of 1792, and first wrote the term "National Guard" into law. The Guard as we now know it (dual enlistment: members of State National Guard units required to enlist in the U.S. Reserves) dates from the Army Act of 1940. (Why dual enlistment? In 1912 the Attorney General ruled that NG units could not be sent outside the US, because they were part of (note "part of") the militia, and the Constitution allows the militia to be called up only for domestic purposes -- to repel invasion, suppress insurrection, and execute the laws of the Union. As a result in WWI Guard units were broken up and members drafted into regular Army units as individuals, an inefficient operation and one displeasing to the Guard).
 
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Yep. I'd certainly feel safer if the babbling moron, with a pant load of poop, sitiing just outside the convenince store, asking for my money, had a fully automatic AK-47 at the ready. ;)

Especially when you have one too.
 
1- Tyranny from our government.

This one has become obsolete. When our constitution was created your gun put you pretty equal with the standard individual military opponent. You had a chance. You could make a pretty good run at being alive and defending yourself as an individual. That is all but gone in today's world. even a well armed group of civilians working against military force would not last very long at all, or be much of a seterrent. With our police heavy society the idea of an underground resistance becomes harder also. The tools that allow for finding hidden people and things have vastly improved. In this aspect your gun no longer provides you that same protection. Now if you were to have access to heavy weapons, jets, submarines, missiles, tanks, explosives, and advanced detection and tracking equipment I would think you had a fighting chance. Since the government restricts these things and never gives you access to most of them you are pretty much SOL with your little plinker.
2- Invasion from foreign governments.

It depends on who is invading. If it were a power that could do something like overcome the US military I would say it would need to also have the power to disarm and lock down the local populace. Yes, in the initial stages you might be an obstacle, but if they are putting down US soldiers and going over better defenses your little gun is not going to be much of a concern to them. I would argue that perhaps such a force that is capable of overpowering the present US military presence does not exist. The reality is that the weapons which would now tear down our defenses would not be fought off by you and your gun. The best you could hope for would be to mount some sort of guerrilla resistance with your guns, which would involve you getting ammo stores before lockdown and confiscation occurred. This might be applicable in the case of massive warfare where they cannot remove your guns.
3- Crime.

this is a better argument. Unfortunately it is still not a great one. There are other things which would be cheaper and more effective to implement before a gun. Those things would also be more reliable. For instance an alarm and security system including hard to break into locks and some safes would be an active system that would defend from all attack points, have better perception than you do, and be active more than you are. I am not saying a gun would not have a place, but that there are things which would be more effective to avoid theft or attack that you could do first. A gun does have the necessity of being aimed and fired to work against a determined attacker which is not something you are constantly at the ready to do, nor is it something you can maintain on every attack vector. Also, a gun can be used against you if you are disarmed or it is taken before you can get to where it is. Reliance on it is fail.

Still, being who I am and open to people enjoying recreation I would say recreation is a good reason for us to allow gun ownership. Though I do support restrictions and safety measures I see no reason to deny a law abiding level headed, trained individual to keep and shoot guns for the pure fun of it. All I would ask is we keep them out of the hands of the crazy, criminals, unsupervised children, and intoxicated people. I also think there should be some rules about safety and storage of the gun. But along those lines I do not see a need for any restrictions on what types you can own. If you stay as a law abiding citizen, go to appropriate target ranges or hunting areas, and are not wacked out of your head by either nature or substance I say have at it.
 
This one has become obsolete. When our constitution was created your gun put you pretty equal with the standard individual military opponent. You had a chance. You could make a pretty good run at being alive and defending yourself as an individual. That is all but gone in today's world. even a well armed group of civilians working against military force would not last very long at all, or be much of a seterrent. With our police heavy society the idea of an underground resistance becomes harder also. The tools that allow for finding hidden people and things have vastly improved. In this aspect your gun no longer provides you that same protection. Now if you were to have access to heavy weapons, jets, submarines, missiles, tanks, explosives, and advanced detection and tracking equipment I would think you had a fighting chance. Since the government restricts these things and never gives you access to most of them you are pretty much SOL with your little plinker.


It depends on who is invading. If it were a power that could do something like overcome the US military I would say it would need to also have the power to disarm and lock down the local populace. Yes, in the initial stages you might be an obstacle, but if they are putting down US soldiers and going over better defenses your little gun is not going to be much of a concern to them. I would argue that perhaps such a force that is capable of overpowering the present US military presence does not exist. The reality is that the weapons which would now tear down our defenses would not be fought off by you and your gun. The best you could hope for would be to mount some sort of guerrilla resistance with your guns, which would involve you getting ammo stores before lockdown and confiscation occurred. This might be applicable in the case of massive warfare where they cannot remove your guns.


this is a better argument. Unfortunately it is still not a great one. There are other things which would be cheaper and more effective to implement before a gun. Those things would also be more reliable. For instance an alarm and security system including hard to break into locks and some safes would be an active system that would defend from all attack points, have better perception than you do, and be active more than you are. I am not saying a gun would not have a place, but that there are things which would be more effective to avoid theft or attack that you could do first. A gun does have the necessity of being aimed and fired to work against a determined attacker which is not something you are constantly at the ready to do, nor is it something you can maintain on every attack vector. Also, a gun can be used against you if you are disarmed or it is taken before you can get to where it is. Reliance on it is fail.

Still, being who I am and open to people enjoying recreation I would say recreation is a good reason for us to allow gun ownership. Though I do support restrictions and safety measures I see no reason to deny a law abiding level headed, trained individual to keep and shoot guns for the pure fun of it. All I would ask is we keep them out of the hands of the crazy, criminals, unsupervised children, and intoxicated people. I also think there should be some rules about safety and storage of the gun. But along those lines I do not see a need for any restrictions on what types you can own. If you stay as a law abiding citizen, go to appropriate target ranges or hunting areas, and are not wacked out of your head by either nature or substance I say have at it.

the problem is -your posts indicate that your support for restrictions on others is mainly due to a desire to harass people who have a political agenda different than your own somewhat fringe perspective. So all your talk about "safety" etc seems to be a facade to hide the true motivation for your advocacy. Indeed, this board is filled with those who claim "safety" is their goal when the tenor of their posts indicate that preventing those who already violate substantive laws is nothing more than a pretext to hassle people they pervceive as being conservative white males as the main inhabitants of the group they target for harassment
 
Your presented arrogance does not make you right. I noticed you failed to produce any idea of what "militia" meant to the founding fathers and those who actually wrote it into the 2nd Amendment. Now I realize it doesn't matter to you because you want me to be dependent on government for my personal safety and security, you want me to void my rights to keep and bear arms so that you can better control me, but neither is going to happen. You really need to do your homework and learn about the word "militia" in 1776 and what it meant in that day and age, and I will repeat it meant or had nothing to do with the national guard or minute men. (all though the minute mean would have been included they were in fact only part of the militia of the 1770's era).


I understand and comprehend fully the meaning of the word "militia" both then and now;

The "Minute men" were militia members made up of ordinary citizens who owned their own muskets and pistols and were at ready in a minute to do battle and make war. They were not professional soldiers. Much of the fighting in the revolutionary war was carried out by these ordinary citizens USING THEIR OWN WEAPONS. This is exactly what Jefferson was referring to when the 2nd amendment was written.
The National Guard grew directly out of the minutemen and to this day show a minute man with musket in hand as their insignia.
View attachment 67153081
IT IS YOU CALGUN WHO FAILS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A MILITIA IS AND YOU HAVE DEMONSTRATED YOUR IGNORANCE OF WHAT THE NATIONAL GUARD IS AND WHERE THE ORGANIZATION GREW FROM..

Here, ... read and learn;
 
Your presented arrogance does not make you right. I noticed you failed to produce any idea of what "militia" meant to the founding fathers and those who actually wrote it into the 2nd Amendment. Now I realize it doesn't matter to you because you want me to be dependent on government for my personal safety and security, you want me to void my rights to keep and bear arms so that you can better control me, but neither is going to happen. You really need to do your homework and learn about the word "militia" in 1776 and what it meant in that day and age, and I will repeat it meant or had nothing to do with the national guard or minute men. (all though the minute mean would have been included they were in fact only part of the militia of the 1770's era).
Your FAILURE to comprehend the written word is breathtaking. The Minute Men made up about one fourth of the American Militia and I have demonstrated that the National Guard grew directly out of that organization.. The "Sons of Liberty" were another large Militia group (battle of Lexington Green and the Boston Tea party) who were instrumental as an adjunct to the Continental Army under General Washington in the Revolutionary war.
The delegates of the Constitutional Convention (the founding fathers/framers of the United States Constitution) under Article 1; section 8, clauses 15 and 16 of the federal constitution, granted Congress the power to "provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia," as well as, and in distinction to, the power to raise an army and a navy. The US Congress is granted the power to use the militia of the United States for three specific missions, as described in Article 1, section 8, clause 15: "To provide for the calling for of the militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions." The Militia Act of 1792[17] clarified whom the militia consists of; " Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act."
In the revolutionary war any able bodied white man between 18 and 45 were considered the militia and they joined local groups who were regulated and organized by local government to be an effective adjunct to General Washington's Continental Army Usually USING THEIR OWN WEAPONS.
This is exactly what the 2nd amendment is referring to;

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
One sentence talking directly about the militia and allowing those who are that U.S. Militia to arm themselves for that purpose. ( All white males between 18 and 45)

The 2nd amendment was not always interpreted as broadly as it has been recently and may well be seen by the Federal courts differently in the future.
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is part of the United States Bill of Rights and protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms from infringement. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights. The Second Amendment was based partially on the right to keep and bear arms in English common-law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. This right was described by Sir William Blackstone as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state.[1]
In the nineteenth century, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that "The right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence" and limited enforcement of the Second Amendment to the Federal government alone via the 1875 Cruikshank case.[2] In the twentieth century, the federal courts construed that the government could limit any weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia” via the 1939 Miller case.[3][4]
I have done my "homework" showing what was meant by "militia" in 1791 and that Militia is what the 2nd amendment is referring to.
What do you have CalGun?:2wave:
 
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Its really does not suprise me, my previous post was spot on, and at the very least you at least figured out the militia was ANY white man between 18-45 but you added the "and" not the founders. That is how the leftists like you roll - adding your fascist belief structure to the reality that already is because it doesn't fit you little mold of utopia with your total control over others. That militia referred to in 1791 is the PEOPLE not your gorups they joined, not the national guard, not the state guards the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms not just select groups as you want to believe.

I dare say when the time comes that you leftist annoit a supreme court that changes that definition and designation is the day a new revolution begins - a very sad day for a once great nation.


Your FAILURE to comprehend the written word is breathtaking. The Minute Men made up about one fourth of the American Militia and I have demonstrated that the National Guard grew directly out of that organization.. The "Sons of Liberty" were another large Militia group (battle of Lexington Green and the Boston Tea party) who were instrumental as an adjunct to the Continental Army under General Washington in the Revolutionary war.

In the revolutionary war any able bodied white man between 18 and 45 were considered the militia and they joined local groups who were regulated and organized by local government to be an effective adjunct to General Washington's Continental Army Usually USING THEIR OWN WEAPONS.
This is exactly what the 2nd amendment is referring to;


One sentence talking directly about the militia and allowing those who are that U.S. Militia to arm themselves for that purpose. ( All white males between 18 and 45)

The 2nd amendment was not always interpreted as broadly as it has been recently and may well be seen by the Federal courts differently in the future.

I have done my "homework" showing what was meant by "militia" in 1791 and that Militia is what the 2nd amendment is referring to.
What do you have CalGun?:2wave:
 
That is all one sentence. One complete thought. If it were written as two sentences the meaning would be entirely different and more like what the OP is trying to say. But it isn't ...it's one sentence
The right of the people to "keep and bear arms" is for the purpose of keeping a well regulated militia.
That made sense when it was written as we had just won a populist guerrilla war against a colonial oppressor. That "well regulated militia" is now called the National Guard and they supply the weapons.

There is a reason that those comma's are there. Study up on your grammar.
 
There is a reason that those comma's are there. Study up on your grammar.

No there isn't. The modern rules regarding the usage of commas was not very well developed back then. In fact, there are two different versions of the second amendment, one with three commas and one with a single comma.

So you are wrong, nobody needs to study up on grammar. But you need to study up on history.
 
No there isn't. The modern rules regarding the usage of commas was not very well developed back then. In fact, there are two different versions of the second amendment, one with three commas and one with a single comma.

So you are wrong, nobody needs to study up on grammar. But you need to study up on history.

He is right, you are wrong.
 
Fail. You need to learn what "militia" meant when it was written. Clue...it wasn't a "national guard."

You are correct CalGun, but so is he. "Militia" means National Guard today. Things change, including the meaning of the term militia and meaning of the second amendment itself. But you are right that the original meaning of the second amendment relates to what "militia" meant at the time.

The "militia" at the time the second amendment was written referred to a body of white Protestant males under the direct authority of the state government. Today the meaning of the second amendment has changed to such a significant degree that it has no bearing on what "militia" means. It is an individual right, entirely divorced of its historical meaning. That's for the best. But let's not delude ourselves about history.
 
You are correct CalGun, but so is he. "Militia" means National Guard today. Things change, including the meaning of the term militia and meaning of the second amendment itself. But you are right that the original meaning of the second amendment relates to what "militia" meant at the time.

The "militia" at the time the second amendment was written referred to a body of white Protestant males under the direct authority of the state government. Today the meaning of the second amendment has changed to such a significant degree that it has no bearing on what "militia" means. It is an individual right, entirely divorced of its historical meaning. That's for the best. But let's not delude ourselves about history.

YOu are wrong-in Maryland, many of the wealthy were Catholic because Maryland was a gift to Lord Baltimore for his service to the crown and to give him a place to escape Puritan harassment because Lord Baltimore (who died before the grant was complete but his son enjoyed the title and lands) was Catholic. They were able to be in the Militia as well.
 
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