The Camp of the Saints is Just a Novel

[LowDown]

Talk about your prophetic books. I remember hearing this book mentioned in a discussion many years ago as an example of what might happen to Western liberal sensibilities if a million third world refugees suddenly turned up on the shores of, say, France.

The Camp of the Saints

The thesis is simple: suppose a million starving people from the Ganges actually took Western rhetoric of compassion, etc., to heart, and commandeered, en masse, shipping, with the intention of moving to the shores of France?

Does the West have left in it a will to live that is strong enough to resist such an invasion?

From the speed at which borders are being closed I'd say that the answer so far is a qualified "yes".

 

[Dittohead not!]

Talk about your prophetic books. I remember hearing this book mentioned in a discussion many years ago as an example of what might happen to Western liberal sensibilities if a million third world refugees suddenly turned up on the shores of, say, France.



Does the West have left in it a will to live that is strong enough to resist such an invasion?

From the speed at which borders are being closed I'd say that the answer so far is a qualified "yes".

When has a million starving refugees ever tried to invade France?

Surely, no one is describing the refugees from Syria in that way, are they?

Well, at least no informed person is making such a comparison.

 

[blaxshep]

When has a million starving refugees ever tried to invade France?

Surely, no one is describing the refugees from Syria in that way, are they?

Well, at least no informed person is making such a comparison.

Is this about the Syrian refugees or a swipe at the millions of illegals pouring into the US?

 

[LowDown]

When has a million starving refugees ever tried to invade France?

Surely, no one is describing the refugees from Syria in that way, are they?

Well, at least no informed person is making such a comparison.

Please be advised that a novel is a work of fiction, but the comparison to recent events is apt.

 

[Deuce]

Please be advised that a novel is a work of fiction, but the comparison to recent events is apt.

Please be advised that "invasion" doesn't remotely describe the situation.

 

[LowDown]

Please be advised that "invasion" doesn't remotely describe the situation.

"Invasion" is what some of the local officials in Croatia and Hungary are calling it.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Please be advised that a novel is a work of fiction, but the comparison to recent events is apt.

I agree with the first half of that statement.

Half isn't too bad, is it?

 

[blaxshep]

I agree with the first half of that statement.

Half isn't too bad, is it?

It is not completely without merit, to the people of the country receiving large numbers of refugees or illegal immigrants it looks an awful lot like an invasion.

 

[Dittohead not!]

It is not completely without merit, to the people of the country receiving large numbers of refugees or illegal immigrants it looks an awful lot like an invasion.

except that this invasion is being invited here by the employers of illegals.

 

[Deuce]

"Invasion" is what some of the local officials in Croatia and Hungary are calling it.

People call Obama a communist :shrug:

 

[Deuce]

except that this invasion is being invited here by the employers of illegals.

Also without all the conquering and shooting and pillaging.

 

[LowDown]

except that this invasion is being invited here by the employers of illegals.

That's a good point. When the jobs dried up for a while the Mexicans stopped coming here. We don't need a wall, we need to enforce laws against hiring illegals.

 

[Dittohead not!]

That's a good point. When the jobs dried up for a while the Mexicans stopped coming here. We don't need a wall, we need to enforce laws against hiring illegals.

Exactly.

And, since Americans really don't want to do the jobs the illegals are doing, we need to make it harder to live off of the dole than it is to earn a living. People who work should be better off than people who don't.

 

[Deuce]

Exactly.

And, since Americans really don't want to do the jobs the illegals are doing, we need to make it harder to live off of the dole than it is to earn a living. People who work should be better off than people who don't.

Any chance we can make the working a better situation instead of "the dole" a worse situation?

 

[Verax]

Any chance we can make the working a better situation instead of "the dole" a worse situation?

We could implement a federal supplemental income in addition to a working person's regular wages guaranteeing them a minimum standard of living. Perhaps it could be a minimum that is significantly more than a non working persons (somebody who is not disabled and should be able to work but doesn't) minimum standard of living.

Of course this would bring up all kinds of thorny issues but perhaps it would be better overall in the end.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Any chance we can make the working a better situation instead of "the dole" a worse situation?

That would be preferable, wouldn't it?

How's this for an idea: Anyone who is dependent on government for basic living could go to work and keep half of their earnings, and all of their "benefits."

So, someone living on, say, $20,000 from the dole could go to work and make an additional twenty grand working part time at an entry level job, and keep ten for a total of thirty grand. Then, that person could go full time and make more. Eventually, he/she would no longer need the dole.

Tax money would be saved, and people would have an incentive to work. As it is now, you go to work, you lose your benefits. If you can't make as much working as you do on the dole, why go to work?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Any chance we can make the working a better situation instead of "the dole" a worse situation?

Not really. Since the "preferred" way to that would be to raise the MW to the level of the dole. Of course, "the dole" is based on a multiple of that now and would surely be increased to keep pace with the resulting higher cost of living. Also one must consider the other added public costs of that "living wage" plan - the required COLA increases for SS and other government pensions/salaries.

 

[Deuce]

That would be preferable, wouldn't it?

How's this for an idea: Anyone who is dependent on government for basic living could go to work and keep half of their earnings, and all of their "benefits."

So, someone living on, say, $20,000 from the dole could go to work and make an additional twenty grand working part time at an entry level job, and keep ten for a total of thirty grand. Then, that person could go full time and make more. Eventually, he/she would no longer need the dole.

Tax money would be saved, and people would have an incentive to work. As it is now, you go to work, you lose your benefits. If you can't make as much working as you do on the dole, why go to work?

I agree with the general principle, although the implementation is, of course, much more complicated. Our current system of public assistance is a bunch of different programs that deal with different issues like housing, food, even phones. They all have different setups, cutoffs, criteria, etc. Some of them even punish you for saving up money, if your assets exceed a certain amount, you're cut off.

I think shifting everything to a singular supplemental income setup would be required.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I agree with the general principle, although the implementation is, of course, much more complicated. Our current system of public assistance is a bunch of different programs that deal with different issues like housing, food, even phones. They all have different setups, cutoffs, criteria, etc. Some of them even punish you for saving up money, if your assets exceed a certain amount, you're cut off.

I think shifting everything to a singular supplemental income setup would be required.

Yes, it would.

I think we'd actually be better off do dump all of those programs. We spend over a trillion dollars (!) a year on income tested benefits programs. Instead, why shouldn't the federal government be the employer of last resort. Give everyone a chance to have a job and earn an income. If they don't want to, then let them stand in the median with a cardboard sign or something.