The Backwards Logic of Moderates

[Dans La Lune]

After Dems run on and win a national election on a specific agenda:

- Immediately beg corporate Republicans for votes.
- Abandon voting rights
- Abandon police reform (which basically won them the government in 2020)
- Side with Trumpers on nearly every issue.
- Strip legislation of anything that could conceivably benefit the American people.
- Partition America's infrastructure to the private sector

Once this is done, blame progressives for sabotaging Democrats and for voters not turning out.

Only in America!

 

[Excast]

We shouldn't be surprised, because this plays out basically every time Democrats take power. They are either incapable or uninterested in accomplishing the things they pledged to do, lose to Republicans who behave like monsters, and then eventually get back into power by promising to fix the absolute train wreck left to them.

Maybe one day we'll learn that there isn't much of an appetite for the Clinton brand of Democrats anymore and the next generation of voters actually expects real change.

 

[ttwtt78640]

After Dems run on and win a national election on a specific agenda:

- Immediately beg corporate Republicans for votes.
- Abandon voting rights
- Abandon police reform (which basically won them the government in 2020)
- Side with Trumpers on nearly every issue.
- Strip legislation of anything that could conceivably benefit the American people.
- Partition America's infrastructure to the private sector

Once this is done, blame progressives for sabotaging Democrats and for voters not turning out.

Only in America!

Those elected to the US Senate or US House did not win a national election - they won support of the majority (or plurality) within their respective states and districts.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Geez, and I thought I hated moderates. I think you are being a little reductionist here.

 

[tshade]

We shouldn't be surprised, because this plays out basically every time Democrats take power. They are either incapable or uninterested in accomplishing the things they pledged to do, lose to Republicans who behave like monsters, and then eventually get back into power by promising to fix the absolute train wreck left to them.

Maybe one day we'll learn that there isn't much of an appetite for the Clinton brand of Democrats anymore and the next generation of voters actually expects real change.

??? Things got MUCH better after Obama won,-----things are improved after Biden won,------Clinton was 8 years of peace & prosperity, .....................Dems have a good track record

 

[Dans La Lune]

Geez, and I thought I hated moderates. I think you are being a little reductionist here.

Which part of this summary do you have an issue with? It all happened.

 

[NatMorton]

After Dems run on and win a national election on a specific agenda:

- Immediately beg corporate Republicans for votes.
- Abandon voting rights
- Abandon police reform (which basically won them the government in 2020)
- Side with Trumpers on nearly every issue.
- Strip legislation of anything that could conceivably benefit the American people.
- Partition America's infrastructure to the private sector

Once this is done, blame progressives for sabotaging Democrats and for voters not turning out.

Only in America!

 

[Integrityrespec]

After Dems run on and win a national election on a specific agenda:

- Immediately beg corporate Republicans for votes.
- Abandon voting rights
- Abandon police reform (which basically won them the government in 2020)
- Side with Trumpers on nearly every issue.
- Strip legislation of anything that could conceivably benefit the American people.
- Partition America's infrastructure to the private sector

Once this is done, blame progressives for sabotaging Democrats and for voters not turning out.

Only in America!

The nation is pretty evenly divided overall. To think that one side or the other is always right or represents the majority of thinking on every issue is BS. Most people like it when they hear some idea that will benefit them. Then they start hearing all the particulars of the bill and decide it's not so great anymore, or it costs too much, or they snuck in a bunch of crap that only the politicians and the big donors wanted and everything changes.
I don't see many people that really approve of most of the democrats more radical proposals, fiscally or socially.
Tolerance doesn't mean approval and that seems to be what the far left is always demanding, approval. They will never get it.

 

[Excast]

??? Things got MUCH better after Obama won,-----things are improved after Biden won,------Clinton was 8 years of peace & prosperity, .....................Dems have a good track record

Better for who? Obama took power and the party hemmed and hawed for more than a year trying to get some grand bargain done, only to end up getting destroyed in the mid terms. It doesn't appear any lessons were learned from that mistake.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Which part of this summary do you have an issue with? It all happened.

Well, depending on who you take as moderates it isn't.

Manchin for example....never really campaigned on those things? The people who elected him new what they were getting. He does side with the GOP a lot.

Now, if you take everyone that isn't a progressive Dem, then most of the other stuff is true about them abandoning policy positions, but the general Democratic party almost never sides with Trumpers. The general Democratic party aren't the reason the infrastructure bill keeps getting cut down either.

It just seems like you are combining criticisms of the moderate, almost republican democrats , with the general establishment Democrats.

 

[Dans La Lune]

The nation is pretty evenly divided overall. To think that one side or the other is always right or represents the majority of thinking on every issue is BS. Most people like it when they hear some idea that will benefit them. Then they start hearing all the particulars of the bill and decide it's not so great anymore, or it costs too much, or they snuck in a bunch of crap that only the politicians and the big donors wanted and everything changes.
I don't see many people that really approve of most of the democrats more radical proposals, fiscally or socially.
Tolerance doesn't mean approval and that seems to be what the far left is always demanding, approval. They will never get it.

There is like 88% approval for lowering the price of prescription drugs. Where is the "evenly divided" constituency for opposing it? The Build Back Better Agenda had like a 70+ approval rating among CONSERVATIVES in West Virginia. Where is the "evenly divided" constituency for opposing it?

 

[Antiwar]

Newsflash: Progressive politics aren't going to happen in America until it's too late.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Well, depending on who you take as moderates it isn't.

Manchin for example....never really campaigned on those things? The people who elected him new what they were getting. He does side with the GOP a lot.

Now, if you take everyone that isn't a progressive Dem, then most of the other stuff is true about them abandoning policy positions, but the general Democratic party almost never sides with Trumpers. The general Democratic party aren't the reason the infrastructure bill keeps getting cut down either.

It just seems like you are combining criticisms of the moderate, almost republican democrats , with the general establishment Democrats.

There is a difference between Manchin and most Democrats. It's called theatre.

 

[bluesmoke]

Dems think the mere obvious of logic is convincing. Childcare, etc., as distribution of wealth to those most in need whom in turn can be more productive in society vs tax breaks to the rich and large corps whom already are at record wealth for having done nothing nor which breaks do anything for the avg American. But Dems sit on their hands, hands over their eyes, mouth and ears. Meanwhile, the Reps tear them apart. Visceral. Emotional. Threat. Fear. It works. Dems are cowards. Reps are bullies. Guess whose winning?

 

[poweRob]

After Dems run on and win a national election on a specific agenda:

- Immediately beg corporate Republicans for votes.
- Abandon voting rights
- Abandon police reform (which basically won them the government in 2020)
- Side with Trumpers on nearly every issue.
- Strip legislation of anything that could conceivably benefit the American people.
- Partition America's infrastructure to the private sector

Once this is done, blame progressives for sabotaging Democrats and for voters not turning out.

Only in America!

 

[Michael Cole]

The backwards logic of extremists.

Nothing is not and never will be better than something.

 

[Dans La Lune]

The backwards logic of extremists.

Nothing is not and never will be better than something.

The backwards logic of moderate apologists: Order a 50 slice pizza for a party, give 49 of the slices to rats; chastise anyone in the party for complaining and not being excited about their share.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Clinton was 8 years of peace & prosperity

Not for the people we bombed in Iraq lol.

 

[Excast]

The backwards logic of extremists.

Nothing is not and never will be better than something.

When the "something" is a tiny fraction of the initial pledge, eventually people are going to get angry and feel as if they are being played for suckers. And that is the Democrats time and time again. They offer a lot, but at the end of the day what they actually provide is being slightly less incompetent and evil than Republicans. Is it better than the alternative? Sure. Is it especially inspiring and likely to turn out large numbers of voters who have every reason in the world to be apathetic? Not remotely.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

There is a difference between Manchin and most Democrats. It's called theatre.

Biden is meaningfully more progressive that Manchin.

 

[Exquisitor]

After Dems run on and win a national election on a specific agenda:

- Immediately beg corporate Republicans for votes.
- Abandon voting rights
- Abandon police reform (which basically won them the government in 2020)
- Side with Trumpers on nearly every issue.
- Strip legislation of anything that could conceivably benefit the American people.
- Partition America's infrastructure to the private sector

Once this is done, blame progressives for sabotaging Democrats and for voters not turning out.

Only in America!

The first thing they should have done is stick together and repeal the 2017 tax cut.

Joe Biden needed to get on Joe Manchin and say, "We need you on this."

 

[Blue Dog]

That’s the catch 22 with idealistic campaign rhetoric.

 

[Indydave]

We shouldn't be surprised, because this plays out basically every time Democrats take power. They are either incapable or uninterested in accomplishing the things they pledged to do, lose to Republicans who behave like monsters, and then eventually get back into power by promising to fix the absolute train wreck left to them.

Maybe one day we'll learn that there isn't much of an appetite for the Clinton brand of Democrats anymore and the next generation of voters actually expects real change.

well said......neither party has any real leaders.....Bernie Sanders is the only dem who states clearly what he would do for people first and everything else be damed......but he carries the socialist brand and under educated America (Foxicans) would burn the nation down before buying into that......the young progressives are in bed (ugh) with too many LGBTQXYZ liberals and with black Americans to the point of disgusting the center dems and energizing the Foxicans......the dems have no leaders.......otoh the repubs have Trump and there are 70 million people who believe he is what America should be.....

 

[Nomad4Ever]

the young progressives are in bed (ugh) with too many LGBTQXYZ liberals and with black Americans to the point of disgusting the center dems

What? What are you trying to say here?

 

[Juggernaut74]

The backwards logic of moderate apologists: Order a 50 slice pizza for a party, give 49 of the slices to rats; chastise anyone in the party for complaining and not being excited about their share.

I’m not sure that’s a valid comparison. In this case it’s more like wanting 50 slices and getting 20 or 25.

I‘m not saying you have to be happy getting 25 slices when you want 50; but at the same time you can be also accept the fact that 25 is better than none if those are your only legitimate options.

I agree with a lot of progressive opinions, and I disagree with some of them too. But as a group, the progressive wing needs to realize that like it or not, they represent about 10-15 percent of the electorate at best. No group with that small of a slice of the pie is going to get everything they want. Blaming “moderates” or any other group isn’t going to change that reality.