Texas school official tells teachers that Holocaust books should be countered with ‘opposing’ views

[Logophile]

I completely disagree.

Part of educating students requires the cultivation of some basic morality. . We do not just let children figure out by themselves if murder is wrong or if all men are created equal. So, the idea of exposing them to "opposing views" about the mass murder of Jews makes no sense.

Actually it makes a lot of sense to present the Nazi rationale. Presumably you are not teaching this subject in kindergarten Thanks!!

 

[pamak]

Actually it makes a lot of sense to present the Nazi rationale. Thanks!!

I was not talking about just presenting it. If you read my post, you will see that the issue is with the attitude of presenting different views WITHOUT the teacher taking a firm stance on the discussed subject. So, the issue is with the tactic of confusing immature kids with all sorts of neonazi propaganda and then let them somehow navigate these waters by themselves.

 

[Logophile]

I was not talking about just presenting it. If you read my post, you will see that the issue is with the attitude of presenting different views WITHOUT the teacher taking a firm stance. So, the issue is with the tactic of confusing immature kids with all sorts of propaganda and then let them somehow navigate these waters by themselves.

This subject is obviously for older kids who are capable of "navigating." Thanks!!

 

[pamak]

This subject is obviously for older kids who are capable of "navigating." Thanks!!

We are talking about high school kids who are not even eligible to vote. So, WE have officially concluded that they are not politically mature enough to navigate by themselves the political field.

 

[Logophile]

We are talking about high school kids who are not even eligible to vote. So, WE have officially concluded that they are not politically mature enough to navigate by themselves the political field.

Sorry. I don't buy it. Thanks!!

 

[pamak]

Sorry. I don't buy it. Thanks!!

You still can't refute my point though, Thanks!

 

[seymourflops]

Actually it makes a lot of sense to present the Nazi rationale. Presumably you are not teaching this subject in kindergarten Thanks!!

I would think it would almost be a must to present the Nazi rationale. The kids need to understand how a nation can be bullied and buffaloed into something so heinous and its people be convinced to believe that it is the right thing.

If they see similarities to our present day United States, they should see them on their own, not be led by an agendized teacher with no balancing viewpoint presented.

 

[Logophile]

You still can't refute my point though, Thanks!

I think you are confusing indoctrination with what you believe to be moral guidance. That's a slippery slope and can easily work against you. Thanks!!

 

[pamak]

I would think it would almost be a must to present the Nazi rationale. The kids need to understand how a nation can be bullied and buffaloed into something so heinous and its people be convinced to believe that it is the right thing.

If they see similarities to our present day United States, they should see them on their own, not be led by an agendized teacher with no balancing viewpoint presented.

And every historical course presents the Nazi rationale. But some people want the teachers to stay silent if some kids adopt such rationale based on whatever trash they find in internet.

 

[pamak]

I think you are confusing indoctrination with what you believe to be moral guidance. That's a slippery slope and can easily work against you. Thanks!!

You need to argue and show where the slippery slope starts. I do not see such danger when teachers take a firm stance against mass murder based on political ideology, so there should not be a problem if they take a firm stance against holocaust.

 

[seymourflops]

"As the superintendent of schools, I express my sincere apology regarding the online article and news story released today. During the conversations with teachers during last week’s meeting, the comments made were in no way to convey that the Holocaust was anything less than a terrible event in history," the statement read. "As we continue to work through implementation of [House Bill] 3979, we also understand this bill does not require an opposing viewpoint on historical facts. As a district, we will work to add clarity to our expectations for teachers and once again apologize for any hurt or confusion this has caused."

Carroll ISD superintendent issues apology, clarification regarding Holocaust comment administrator made during staff training

Following news reports about comments made about the Holocaust by a senior Carroll ISD administrative staff member, Superintendent Lane Ledbetter issued a late-night statement apologizing for the misunderstanding.

communityimpact.com

Of course it does not.

 

[Bum]

Will earth science teachers be required to provide info on flat earthers theories?

 

[seymourflops]

And every historical course presents the Nazi rationale. But some people want the teachers to stay silent if some kids adopt such rationale based on whatever trash they find in internet.

Argue with those "some people," as you find them, Compeer!

 

[Logophile]

You need to argue and show where the slippery slope starts. I do not see such danger when teachers take a firm stance against mass murder based on political ideology, so there should not be a problem if they take a firm stance against holocaust.

You're assuming high schoolers are morons. Parents teach moral conduct. They are a bigger part of the picture here. Thanks!!

 

[pamak]

You're assuming high schoolers are morons. Parents teach moral conduct. They are a bigger part of the picture here. Thanks!!

Not morons. There is a difference between being immature and being a moron. I assume that high schoolers are not that savvy as adult neonazi propagandists!

 

[Logophile]

Not morons. There is a difference between being immature and being a moron. I assume that high schoolers are not that savvy as adult neonazi propagandists!

You're overreacting imo and there are few neonazis that are going to influence kids with ethical parents, as in next to none. Thanks!!

 

[seymourflops]

There are two threads on this identical topic.

This should end both of them, at least as far as refuting the OP's premise:

"As the superintendent of schools, I express my sincere apology regarding the online article and news story released today. During the conversations with teachers during last week’s meeting, the comments made were in no way to convey that the Holocaust was anything less than a terrible event in history," the statement read. "As we continue to work through implementation of [House Bill] 3979, we also understand this bill does not require an opposing viewpoint on historical facts. As a district, we will work to add clarity to our expectations for teachers and once again apologize for any hurt or confusion this has caused."

Carroll ISD superintendent issues apology, clarification regarding Holocaust comment administrator made during staff training

Following news reports about comments made about the Holocaust by a senior Carroll ISD administrative staff member, Superintendent Lane Ledbetter issued a late-night statement apologizing for the misunderstanding.

communityimpact.com

As to supporting or not supporting it, I said in one of the two twin threads that it is doomed to failure on many levels.

This:

Will earth science teachers be required to provide info on flat earthers theories?

Is a good example of why. If a science teacher explains the solar system using the Zetetic Astronomy model:

Samuel Birley Rowbotham (/ˈroʊbɒtəm/;[1] 1816 – 23 December 1884, in London) was an English inventor, writer and socialist [2] who wrote Zetetic Astronomy: Earth Not a Globe under the pseudonym Parallax. His work was originally published as a 16-page pamphlet (1849), and later expanded into a book (1865).

Rowbotham's method, which he called zetetic astronomy, models the Earth as a flat disc centered at the North Pole and bounded along its perimeter by a wall of ice, with the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars moving only several thousand miles above the surface of Earth.

We would be damn glad if her administrator ruled that she must present other viewpoints. But if she then insisted that Zetetic Astronomy be explained by her other science colleagues, what's a principal to do?

 

[pamak]

You're overreacting imo and there are few neonazis that are going to influence kids with ethical parents, as in next to none. Thanks!!

The fact that there are few neonazi that can influence kids support my position that you are overreacting when you see a slippery slope and "indoctrination" if teachers take a clear stance against the holocaust. Apparently, you see public school "indoctrination" instead of moral guidance when teachers teach the same thing that the vast majority of ethical parents believe.. So, who is confusing again these concepts of indoctrination and moral guidance?

By the way, in modern times the voice of few is amplified in internet, so quite few people can still create a lot of online propaganda that teenagers can consume. . That is why we see stupid movements of flat-earthers and other such nonsense...

 

[jpn]

I would think it would almost be a must to present the Nazi rationale. The kids need to understand how a nation can be bullied and buffaloed into something so heinous and its people be convinced to believe that it is the right thing.

If they see similarities to our present day United States, they should see them on their own, not be led by an agendized teacher with no balancing viewpoint presented.

What would a "balancing viewpoint" look like?

 

[Common Sense 1]

And then there is this:

During the conversations with teachers, comments made were in no way to convey the Holocaust was anything less than a terrible event in history,” Ledbetter said in a statement posted to Facebook. “Additionally, we recognize there are not two sides of the Holocaust.

 

[jpn]

This is a result of Texas House Bill 3979

There's a broader context here. The Southlake School District is the subject of a fairly shocking podcast called "Southlake." It examines how a white Texas suburb is dealing with integration. A reaction to a racist video made by white Southlake high school kids led to some changes to the school curriculum. This led to a blowback by truculent whites who resented anyone trying to make them confront the continued, explicit racism in their community.

The whole Southlake story is basically Trumpism in a bottle.

 

[JANFU]

There's a broader context here. The Southlake School District is the subject of a fairly shocking podcast called "Southlake." It examines how a white Texas suburb is dealing with integration. A reaction to a racist video made by white Southlake high school kids led to some changes to the school curriculum. This led to a blowback by truculent whites who resented anyone trying to make them confront the continued, explicit racism in their community.

The whole Southlake story is basically Trumpism in a bottle.

And happening more than is reported

 

[bearpoker]

Us white folks all around the world sure have screwed things up royally all around the world for a really long time.

I agree. We need to let some different color screw things up royally. Everyone deserves a turn.

 

[ecofarm]

Being shot, imprisoned, displaced, having your home bulldozed and destroyed by airstrikes, and being put off your land is a holocaust.

No one people have a monopoly on suffering, all people suffer. I'm more worried about todays holocausts, especially since its one I am helping to enable.
I dont care for it.

Holocaust minimization is Holocaust denial. You are engaged in Holocaust denial.

 

[Hatuey]

Holocaust minimization is Holocaust denial. You are engaged in Holocaust denial.

Lmao, @PeacefulWarrior thinks Holocaust (Shoah) museums are part of a plot to ensure no one knows about non-Jewish victims of Nazi Germany. He also thinks BLM, which is supported by millions of blacks, whites, and people of every creed is just covert black supremacy.

Now he's here yapping away about varying perspectives.

No kumbaya.