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Texas Border Sheriffs: There is No Crisis and We Don’t Want Trump’s Wall

Depends on what camp you're in.

Those that want the wall now but voted against it, or spoke out against it, previously: It's about the politics.
Those that want the wall and have been consistent on that stance through out the years, its not about politics. Its about the need for a wall.

Those that don't want the wall, but previously voted for it, or spoke in favor of it,: It's about the politics.
Those that don't want the wall, and have been consistent on that stance throughout the years, its not about the politics. It's about there not being a need for a wall.

It's not so simple as it just being about politics. Nancy and Schumer have previously voted for it before, yet are now against it? That's pure politics. Trump probably wants it for an ego trip so its not about politics for him, its about vanity. Regardless of either of those three though, there are those that are in those other camps....which includes it not being about politics.

As for them being Democrats, its a good indication of which direction they would swing on any given issue. And with as divided as America is right now its really no surprise that they would come out against the wall. That they would twist facts is no surprise either. Both sides do twist facts. The only ones that have a chance at keeping either group "honest" are Independents...and even that has its own hazards.

Yes but it all comes down to what the people that make decisions want.

When you say that Pelosi and Schumer were for the wall before but now are not, you are wrong. They offered $25 billion for the wall in exchange for DACA people having a 14-year path to citizenship. That offer was not a sign they were "for the wall" but an exchange for a path to citizenship for DACA recipients, which represented a payment of about $30,000 for each DACA member for their citizenship. At the time, there were no protections for DACA members so they payment was worth it.

Since then, the Supreme Court ruled that they would not hear the case at this time until it runs its course in the lower courts, meaning that for now the DACA members cannot be deported. This has taken away the urgency to come up with a deal with Trump regarding DACA, also meaning the Democrats are no longer interested in the exchange for the path to citizenship, given that there is a good chance the Dreamers can get the path to citizenship through the courts, by-passing Trump entirely.

As such, the action of the Democrats is not political, just common sense. They are not "swinging" their votes, as you said.
 
I guess you like trafficking, and scores of murdered people at the hands of the violent illegals. Murders that would not have happened if these illegals were never here in the 1st place.

Yeah....the majority of illegals are damn nice people, but even they broke the law being here in the 1st place.

Nonetheless, it is NOT an emergency. This problem has been going on for over 20 years (it is not unexpected or sudden). In addition, the problem is ameliorating given that every month for the past 5 years there have been less incidents (contrary to what Trump says). Last but not least, an emergency requires immediate action so it can be resolved. Even if the wall was approved, it would take years to build it, meaning that nothing would be solved in the short-term.
 
The rape rate in McAllen county increased by 44% in 2018. Guerra isn't being exactly honest.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw2CMTzLuw1GUvzRpQVNm14k&ust=1548523650106134

You are twisting the data. It does not say that illegal aliens were responsible for the increase of rape.

Michael Light, a criminologist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, looked at whether the soaring increase in illegal immigration over the last three decades caused a commensurate jump in violent crimes: murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault.

"Increased undocumented immigration since 1990 has not increased violent crime over that same time period," Light said in a phone interview.

https://www.npr.org/2018/05/02/607652253/studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime
 
Yes but it all comes down to what the people that make decisions want.

When you say that Pelosi and Schumer were for the wall before but now are not, you are wrong. They offered $25 billion for the wall in exchange for DACA people having a 14-year path to citizenship. That offer was not a sign they were "for the wall" but an exchange for a path to citizenship for DACA recipients, which represented a payment of about $30,000 for each DACA member for their citizenship. At the time, there were no protections for DACA members so they payment was worth it.

Since then, the Supreme Court ruled that they would not hear the case at this time until it runs its course in the lower courts, meaning that for now the DACA members cannot be deported. This has taken away the urgency to come up with a deal with Trump regarding DACA, also meaning the Democrats are no longer interested in the exchange for the path to citizenship, given that there is a good chance the Dreamers can get the path to citizenship through the courts, by-passing Trump entirely.

As such, the action of the Democrats is not political, just common sense. They are not "swinging" their votes, as you said.

Warning: *LONG-ASS POST*


See, now, that's what I'm worried about.

It all comes down to procedural posture.

A district court issued an injunction preventing DHS from rescinding the memo that implemented DACA until such time as the litigation was completed and there was a final ruling. The final ruling would be on the question of whether the DHS complied with the APA in rescinding the memo, specifically, the fact-finding procedures the APA imposes on any executive agency in this circumstance. (I have to be vague; that or mail you my old admin law book...). The Circuit court upheld the stay and SCOTUS declined to act. That means we now wait for the district courts, yes. All good thus far.

My worry comes in where an injunction is not a final ruling. It's just a ruling about the likelihood of the parties' success after all proceedings are concluded (trial, or whatever is being demanded given the kind of filing that's being ruled on). The District Court could still ultimately rule that DHS complied with the APA, which means bye-bye DACA eligibled and enrolled. However, the usual outcome where an injunction like this is issued is victory by the plaintiffs. (After all, you'd expect that if the District Court did its job in researching the caselaw).



Now, unless I'm forgetting something, DHS could be - right now - properly following the APA in a separate move to rescind the memo that implemented DACA. After all, the only thing in question and held up in court is whether the prior attempt complied. I cannot think of any reason why they couldn't say "ok, we're blocked from deporting them after the first attempt at rescision. But if we now try to rescind it while crossing Ts and dotting Is under the APA, we should be good, and if the second way we do it works the result of the case about the first way we did it won't matter - that only applies to the first way they attempted it).

The problem? Well, I can see the plaintiffs going back into court and saying "ok, we've got the injunction, but right now they're trying again to rescind it, this time doing a whole lot more fact-finding that does meet the APA. That means they are essentially admitting by action that they didn't the first time around. So they lose."

What I don't recall off the top of my head is whether:

(1) that does anything beyond making them win the first suit, which would be irrelevant if DHS could rescind the memo following proper procedure;

(2) if, in light of this eventuality, the order actually blocks DHS from separately trying to jump through the APA's hoops while the litigation on its first attempt proceeds. I read the first few pages and skimmed the rest when it came out (30 pages, boring admin law stuff, etc). If that was part of the order, then ignore the last few paragraphs. If the injunction against recision after the first attempt ALSO blocked any further attempts at recision during pendency of litigation, then everything about the hypothetical can be ignored.




Of course, note, that regardless of what's happening, the same plaintiffs who filed the first suit could always sue to block a second attempt at recision. That would tie it up again for some time. However, how long it tied it up would depend on whether or not DHS sufficiently followed the APA in this hypothetical second attempt that a judge would not issue an injunction as litigation proceeded.
 
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Yes but it all comes down to what the people that make decisions want.

When you say that Pelosi and Schumer were for the wall before but now are not, you are wrong. They offered $25 billion for the wall in exchange for DACA people having a 14-year path to citizenship. That offer was not a sign they were "for the wall" but an exchange for a path to citizenship for DACA recipients, which represented a payment of about $30,000 for each DACA member for their citizenship. At the time, there were no protections for DACA members so they payment was worth it.

Since then, the Supreme Court ruled that they would not hear the case at this time until it runs its course in the lower courts, meaning that for now the DACA members cannot be deported. This has taken away the urgency to come up with a deal with Trump regarding DACA, also meaning the Democrats are no longer interested in the exchange for the path to citizenship, given that there is a good chance the Dreamers can get the path to citizenship through the courts, by-passing Trump entirely.

As such, the action of the Democrats is not political, just common sense. They are not "swinging" their votes, as you said.

Both Chuck and Nancy voted for a wall to be built in 2006. IIRC it was about 700 miles worth. A larger length-ed barrier than Trumps 300 some odd. That bill was passed with a bi-partisan vote.
 
Manafort, Cohen, Stone - all Trump cronies, all under indictment.

Talk about corrupt.

But go ahead and sling mud at this guy because he doesn’t fall lockstep with the Corpulent One.


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*tosses out flag*
Deflection on the field! 10-yard penalty!
 
I guess you like trafficking, and scores of murdered people at the hands of the violent illegals. Murders that would not have happened if these illegals were never here in the 1st place.

Yeah....the majority of illegals are damn nice people, but even they broke the law being here in the 1st place.

It's a spurious argument because native citizens commit more crimes per capita than undocumented. Take any group a large amount of people and somebody is going to commit a crime. Even legal immigrants they're going to be crimes committed. The police stopped at you have to ban all traffic to and from this country. Apparently you cannot grasp the absurdity of your argument
 
It's a spurious argument because native citizens commit more crimes per capita than undocumented. Take any group a large amount of people and somebody is going to commit a crime. Even legal immigrants they're going to be crimes committed. The police stopped at you have to ban all traffic to and from this country. Apparently you cannot grasp the absurdity of your argument

By being here they broke the law.

If employed they broke a second.

If employed with fake documents a third.

If driving an unregistered and/or uninsured car score fourth and perhaps fifth.

Any documentation signed that says the are a citizen or legal alien can be added.


Now I am a US native... I have one misdemeanor conviction. That is one vs. three, four or five more.
 
You are twisting the data. It does not say that illegal aliens were responsible for the increase of rape.

Michael Light, a criminologist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, looked at whether the soaring increase in illegal immigration over the last three decades caused a commensurate jump in violent crimes: murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault.

"Increased undocumented immigration since 1990 has not increased violent crime over that same time period," Light said in a phone interview.

https://www.npr.org/2018/05/02/607652253/studies-say-illegal-immigration-does-not-increase-violent-crime

Guerra said crime is down. I just proved that rapes are up by 44%. Nothing's been twisted.
 
By being here they broke the law.

If employed they broke a second.

If employed with fake documents a third.

If driving an unregistered and/or uninsured car score fourth and perhaps fifth.

Any documentation signed that says the are a citizen or legal alien can be added.


Now I am a US native... I have one misdemeanor conviction. That is one vs. three, four or five more.



Spoken like someone who hates brown people.


I don't see you whining about Canadian visa overstays, which is most of the overstays.
 
"A group of 180 migrants were apprehended by Arizona border agents Wednesday morning. Fernando Grijalva said the area has become a hotbed for illegal crossing.
"I've seen six different presidents at the time that I've been with the Border Patrol and this is the worst crisis that I've seen," he said."
...
"Despite some lapses in the wall, Grijalva believes they still work.
"Operationally I can tell that you without a physical barrier at border patrol we have a very tough time succeeding," he said."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/border...migrants-working-without-pay-during-shutdown/



The premise of this thread is that there isn't an emergency. Yes, there are illegal crossings, but the stats are way down over prior years.

If there wasn't an emergency when it was at it's peak, then there is no logic to assert there is an emergency now.
 
The premise of this thread is that there isn't an emergency. Yes, there are illegal crossings, but the stats are way down over prior years.

If there wasn't an emergency when it was at it's peak, then there is no logic to assert there is an emergency now.

"worst crisis that I've seen" doesn't constitute an emergency to you? Wanna bet it does to Fernando Grijalva?
 
"worst crisis that I've seen" doesn't constitute an emergency to you? Wanna bet it does to Fernando Grijalva?

The statement by Agent Grijalva does seem a bit odd. He says he has worked during the terms of six presidents, which would be Trump, Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Bush I and Reagan. One must ask where he was in 2000 and 2006 when the Border Patrol stopped more than 1.6 million people just on the southwestern border.

Approximately 300,000 were caught in the same area in 2018. How does that drop in apprehensions equate to the "worst crisis" this guy has ever seen?
 
"worst crisis that I've seen" doesn't constitute an emergency to you? Wanna bet it does to Fernando Grijalva?

Meh. What does Fernando know? He only works for the Border Patrol at the border. I don't know who in the he'll he thinks he is to go messing with Oscar's premise.
 
The statement by Agent Grijalva does seem a bit odd. He says he has worked during the terms of six presidents, which would be Trump, Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Bush I and Reagan. One must ask where he was in 2000 and 2006 when the Border Patrol stopped more than 1.6 million people just on the southwestern border.

Approximately 300,000 were caught in the same area in 2018. How does that drop in apprehensions equate to the "worst crisis" this guy has ever seen?

I'm not clear about the numbers or the area you're referencing. Are you sure you're not talking about total apprehensions at the southern border?
He's talking about the area where he is. "Fernando Grijalva said the area has become a hotbed for illegal crossing."
 
I'm not clear about the numbers or the area you're referencing. Are you sure you're not talking about total apprehensions at the southern border?
He's talking about the area where he is. "Fernando Grijalva said the area has become a hotbed for illegal crossing."

The agent is still talking nonsense, or he has a really poor memory.

Local news site for Nogales, AZ Agents operating in the Nogales corridor have detained 53,000 undocumented migrants as of May 4. 2004

That's more apprehensions in four months than in all of 2018.
 
The agent is still talking nonsense, or he has a really poor memory.

Local news site for Nogales, AZ Agents operating in the Nogales corridor have detained 53,000 undocumented migrants as of May 4. 2004

That's more apprehensions in four months than in all of 2018.

The CBS article said "Last year, border agents apprehended 52,000 people in this area alone, an increase of more than 1,000 apprehensions a month over the previous year. Many are women and children."
 
Manafort, Cohen, Stone - all Trump cronies, all under indictment.

Talk about corrupt.

But go ahead and sling mud at this guy because he doesn’t fall lockstep with the Corpulent One.


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It is important what they are under indictment for.
 
I guess you like trafficking, and scores of murdered people at the hands of the violent illegals. Murders that would not have happened if these illegals were never here in the 1st place.

Yeah....the majority of illegals are damn nice people, but even they broke the law being here in the 1st place.

Don't you know that those people only do that on the Mexican side?

Once they cross the border they are magically the hardest working people in the world and they commit no crime.

Come on, get with the program.
 
Nonetheless, it is NOT an emergency. This problem has been going on for over 20 years (it is not unexpected or sudden). In addition, the problem is ameliorating given that every month for the past 5 years there have been less incidents (contrary to what Trump says). Last but not least, an emergency requires immediate action so it can be resolved. Even if the wall was approved, it would take years to build it, meaning that nothing would be solved in the short-term.

This is all just a political gag and we’re all being played. The crisis is in Trump’s mind.


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"worst crisis that I've seen" doesn't constitute an emergency to you? Wanna bet it does to Fernando Grijalva?

Worst crisis that I've ever seen?

Would you care to expand on that statement?

Illegal immigration is at the lowest it has been in 20 years, meaning that 20 years ago, 19 years ago, 15 years ago, 8 years ago, 5 years ago etc. were all worse crisis that is presently being felt. Right there, your statement is wrong.

Here is a crisis that is truly a worst crisis that I've ever seen:

FBI: reported hate crimes increased by 17 percent in 2017

The spike in reported hate crimes comes amid Trump’s first year in office.

The report found that nearly 58 percent of incidents were motivated by race, ethnicity, or ancestry. Almost 22 percent were motivated by religion, and nearly 16 percent were motivated by sexual orientation. The rest were motivated by disability, gender, gender identity, and multiple kinds of bias.

About 57 percent of reported hate crimes were crimes against persons — mostly assault and intimidation, but also some murders and rapes. About 43 percent were crimes against property, particularly vandalism but also larceny-theft, robbery, and burglary. There’s some overlap between these categories, meaning some hate crimes can involve, say, both assault and robbery.

Even if the increase is in part a result of better reporting, some of the numbers — such as the sharp increase in anti-Jewish crimes as well as anti–Hispanic and Latino crimes — are alarming.

The broader context is crucial here: The report covers the first year of President Donald Trump’s time in the White House, and he’s been repeatedly criticized, from his campaign to his presidential statements and tweets, of stoking racist sentiment, particularly against immigrants and refugees.
 
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