Texas' 6-Week Abortion Ban Takes Effect

[SheWolf]

Ted Cruz paid for an abortion for his daughter.

He should be sued.

Let him prove he didn't.

I am sure a lot of Texas Republicans have been involved with an abortion

 

[What if...?]

I am sure a lot of Texas Republicans have been involved with an abortion

Every republican woman of child bearing age should be sued for getting an abortion.

 

[choiceone]

Since it would be in a law, lawmakers and lawyers, of course. Just like any other law. Professional medical opinions from multiple sources on both sides of the issue should be listened to.

The vast majority of medical doctors agree that elective abortion should be legal until viability, but they widely set the standard self-imposed limit at 22 weeks, sometimes 20 weeks. (There's no cut-off point in Canadian law, but in practice, the self-imposed limit is the same).

Everywhere developed nations' laws have an earlier cut-off point, they make it easy to access early abortion and usually have exceptions for later not just to save the woman's life/major health functions, and for rape/ incest, but also in the case of seriously malformed fetuses.

With the exception of Sweden and Japan, these laws emerged partly in tandem with the US after the Sherry Finkbine case - seriously malformed fetus. The medical profession was quite supportive of the abortion law reform and repeal movement of the US in the 1960s, as were many Protestant churches. Though churches/ religions had varied perspectives, only the Catholic church was extremely anti-choice, until about 1978. The medical profession has never varied: most medical professionals supported and some did not.

All of what you see now is predictable history. It has nothing to do with "new discoveries" in biology.

In 1973, Roe v Wade was not a hugely controversial decision. It was a complex, conservative compromise decision by six Republican justices and one Democrat, with one Republican and one Democrat dissenting. The Republican Party was still the educated party then and full of professionals in medicine, law, etc. But it was beginning to lose them.

In the 1960s, the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were passed under Democratic administrations, and the Dems alienated Southern white Democrats. Hence, in the late 1960s, Nixon got the vote of those people, who increasingly joined the Republican Party.

In 1978, though, the GOP didn't think that would be enough for it to get back the presidency because of Nixon's still-remembered Watergate scandal. Someone in the Republican National Committee (I forget who) wanted to use opposition to abortion to draw the blue-collar Catholic vote. The GOP cut a deal with not very large right-wing Christian organizations: we put an anti-choice plank in the party platform and you deliver the votes. After that, those organizations "owned" the Republicans.

In 1992, pro-choice Republicans were horrified by their party on this issue, and pro-choice Republican Ross Perot ran for president on an independent ticket, splitting the GOP vote, so Bill Clinton won.

It is possible to follow all the years since in this way, showing how the GOP gradually lost educated persons and gained uneducated ones. That is how Trump won but the Democrats finally overcame him with Biden.

The idea that the medical professionals are about 50/50 on the abortion issue is mistaken. Only a small minority are anti-choice, and many of them are Catholics.

Texas has always been anti-abortion, and other Southern ex-slave states. But after 1978, it was essentially a way for Republican politicians to win. Many only care about "life" because they want political power.

 

[JerryW]

My first graders understand it just fine.

You're a 1st grade teacher.

 

[JerryW]

Paying citizens to spy on and sue each other as an enforcement technique is a police state technique.

Bounty hunters for people with no arrest warrants, criminal conviction, etc are now a thing in Texas.

Then there's the determination of a heartbeat.

I do wonder what the citizens of Texas think about this.

PS: many aspects remind me of why those people were found guilty of witchcraft in Salem and environs in the very later years of the 17th century.

 

[jaypatriot]

Texas is pretty big. That's a long way to go, especially for younger people. This doesn't overrule RvW, so abortion is still legal. But suing someone for a legal activity with the hopes of putting them out of business is not something the government should be encouraging.

The "legal activity" you allude to will no longer be legal in TX.
Texas is big. So women will have to drive a bit to kill an unborn human being.
If they think it is worth it, then it is worth it.

 

[minnie616]

The "legal activity" you allude to will no longer be legal in TX.
Texas is big. So women will have to drive a bit to kill an unborn human being.
If they think it is worth it, then it is worth it.

The rich will be able fly to another state or country to get an abortion if they want.

The poor not so likely.

Texas taxpayers will end up with a much higher percent of welfare citizens to help support.

 

[jaypatriot]

Texas taxpayers will end up with a much higher percent of welfare citizens to help support.

The price you pay for wanting to save babies in the womb.
Is it worth it?
What's a life worth nowadays?

 

[weaver2]

Does the Texas law mean that women are not allowed to get an abortion in NM, AZ, OK, LA, ARK, etc?

The actual law doesn't seem to prevent getting an abortion out of state but the person who drove the car and the pregnant woman out of state would be considered aiding an abortion and could be sued. This law is very thorough in covering all possibly ways a person could be implemented in aiding an abortions.

 

[Josie]

You're a 1st grade teacher.

I’m going to assume that was meant to be a question.

Yes, I teach first graders.

 

[What if...?]

I am sure a lot of Texas Republicans have been involved with an abortion

Sue them all.

 

[What if...?]

Bounty hunters for people with no arrest warrants, criminal conviction, etc are now a thing in Texas.

Then there's the determination of a heartbeat.

I do wonder what the citizens of Texas think about this.

PS: many aspects remind me of why those people were found guilty of witchcraft in Salem and environs in the very later years of the 17th century.

I already thought of that.

It was conviction by accusation with "tests" like holding them under water for a long time.if they drowned they were innocent. If they didn't they were guilty and were burned.

So.lets accuse every republican woman of getting an abortion.

Find out just how overbroad this "law" really is.

 

[What if...?]

The price you pay for wanting to save babies in the womb.
Is it worth it?
What's a life worth nowadays?

There's a number. And that should make everybody angry.

 

[weaver2]

......... Someone in the Republican National Committee (I forget who) wanted to use opposition to abortion to draw the blue-collar Catholic vote. The GOP cut a deal with not very large right-wing Christian organizations: we put an anti-choice plank in the party platform and you deliver the votes. After that, those organizations "owned" the Republicans.

The "someone" was Jerry Falwell and Paul Weyrich, founder of the Heritage Foundation. The evangelicals had coalesced political power around fighting the IRS over the denial of their tax deduction for their very unpopular segregated, all white, church schools. Falwell and Weyrich realized they needed another issue around which to build political power and deliberately chose abortion for its appeal to a broad range of people for many different reasons. Prior to Falwell and Weyrich's introduction to the anti-abortion issue the evangelicals approved of Roe v Wade. They claimed it kept government out of personal lives.

As evangelicals started to be a source of political power for the Republican Party Weyrich said:

"When political power is achieved, the moral majority will have the opportunity to re-create this great nation.”
"We are talking about Christianizing America. We are talking about the Gospel in a political context."

The Real Origins of the Religious Right

They’ll tell you it was abortion. Sorry, the historical record’s clear: It was segregation.

www.politico.com

The Texas law is the result of the movement Falwell and Weyrich started.

 

[What if...?]

The actual law doesn't seem to prevent getting an abortion out of state but the person who drove the car and the pregnant woman out of state would be considered aiding an abortion and could be sued. This law is very thorough in covering all possibly ways a person could be implemented in aiding an abortions.

Pretty sure I could get one out and back without an issue.

Most women don't even know they're pregnant at 6 weeks. So who else is gonna know what she went out of state for? Are they gonna sue every woman who travels out of state? How will they know if they went out of state?

If they can just assume, then we need to sue every single Republican woman of childbearing age.

Just in case.

 

[Scrabaholic]

That is simply a meaningless distinction, as the two terms are coterminous. Furthermore "human being" is used all the time in scientific literature. But fine, we'll use the term homo sapiens if you wish. What justifies the deliberate killing of an innocent homo sapiens?

The fact that it is encroaching on a woman's body, taking it's resources, putting her at great pain and/or discomfort, risking her health and/or life, stretching it all out of proportion.

 

[What if...?]

The "someone" was Jerry Falwell and Paul Weyrich, founder of the Heritage Foundation. The evangelicals had coalesced political power around fighting the IRS over the denial of their tax deduction for their very unpopular segregated, all white, church schools. Falwell and Weyrich realized they needed another issue around which to build political power and deliberately chose abortion for its appeal to a broad range of people for many different reasons. Prior to Falwell and Weyrich's introduction to the anti-abortion issue the evangelicals approved of Roe v Wade. They claimed it kept government out of personal lives.

As evangelicals started to be a source of political power for the Republican Party Weyrich said:

"When political power is achieved, the moral majority will have the opportunity to re-create this great nation.”
"We are talking about Christianizing America. We are talking about the Gospel in a political context."

The Real Origins of the Religious Right

They’ll tell you it was abortion. Sorry, the historical record’s clear: It was segregation.

www.politico.com

The Texas law is the result of the movement Falwell and Weyrich started.

Theocracy is a "hell no!" trigger point for me. Not on my watch. Won't even try to convince anybody with words.

 

[Scrabaholic]

And yet, if a woman goes into the ER in Dallas, Texas with an ectopic pregnancy, she immediately gets a legal, necessary abortion. The insurance/lawsuit aspect is interesting. I'll be curious to see how that all pans out. I'm not crying about it.

FYI -- what I do disagree with in the TX law is there aren't exceptions for rape or incest.

Why are zefs from rape/incest less valuable than those from consensual sex?

 

[Josie]

Why are zefs from rape/incest less valuable than those from consensual sex?

They aren’t. Just as the mothers’ lives aren’t less valuable. There are always two humans involved and you have to think about the health and well-being of both.

 

[minnie616]

The price you pay for wanting to save babies in the womb.
Is it worth it?
What's a life worth nowadays?

Did you know that 15 to 20 percent of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

I had 6 known pregnancies.
I have 4 children.
I had two miscarriages between my second child and third child.
One miscarriage was early in my pregnancy the other miscarriage happened about 20 weeks.
It was a very malformed little one that died in womb. It was expelled in the hospital and I accidentally saw it.
Very traumatic and heartbreaking.

I know pregnancy is not the promise a child will result.
Pregnancies are just a maybe.



Perhaps you are unaware but over 60 percent of women who have abortions are already raising at least 1 born child.

The cost is not just economic but forcing a women by law continue an unwanted pregnancy can affect the woman’s health and much more.

But many pro life groups and organizations never seem to consider the toll being denied an abortion take on her and her existing children , the chid born from the unwanted pregnancy or future children.

From the following study

When women are denied an abortion, their children fare worse than peers

Women who are denied abortions face diminished opportunities to achieve other life goals, gain secure financial footing, and have a child or children she can support and cherish.

www.statnews.com

More than half of women who seek abortions are already mothers. There are three sets of children whose lives may be affected by whether a woman receives or is denied an abortion:

the child or children a woman already has when seeking an abortion
the child born from an unwanted pregnancy
the child or children born from a pregnancy after an abortion


By comparing the outcomes of children of women who were denied abortions to those of more than 400 women who received abortions, we have been able to see the impact of abortion on women’s existing and future children.


Our latest research, published in the Journal of Pediatrics, shows what happens to women’s existing children. Consistent with mothers’ concerns that raising a new child would limit their ability to care for their existing children, we found significantly worse socioeconomic outcomes for children whose mothers were denied abortions than those who received them: a greater chance of living below the poverty level (72 percent compared to 55 percent) or living in a household without enough money to cover food, housing, and transportation (87 percent compared to 70 percent).

We also saw a small but significant reduction in achieving developmental milestones among children whose mothers were denied abortions compared to those who received them, possibly related to the increased financial strain on the family.

Among women who seek an abortion but are denied it, more than 90 percent choose to keep and raise the child rather than place it for adoption. What is life like for these children? We compared children born after their mothers were denied abortions to the next children born to women who received abortions. Writing in JAMA Pediatrics, we showed that children born to women who were denied abortions fared worse. They were more likely to live in households where there wasn’t enough money to pay for basic living expenses. Women are also much more likely to report poor maternal bonding — feeling trapped as a mother, resenting their baby, or longing for the “old days” before they had the baby — with the child born after abortion denial than with the next child born following a wanted abortion.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Because I'm against the unnecessary killing of any human.

So am I. What's that got to do with abortion?

 

[Hamish Howl]

Did you know that 15 to 20 percent of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

I had 6 known pregnancies.
I have 4 children.
I had two miscarriages between my second child and third child.
One miscarriage was early in my pregnancy the other miscarriage happened about 20 weeks.

In Alabama, they'd have thrown you in jail for 20 years per miscarriage.

 

[minnie616]

In Alabama, they'd have thrown you in jail for 20 years per miscarriage.

Yep . Alabama has some weird laws.

Alabama Weird Driving Law: No Blindfolds
It is illegal to drive while blindfolded.

Good thing the movie Bird Box with Sandra Bullock was not filmed in Alabama.

 

[weaver2]

Pretty sure I could get one out and back without an issue. Most women don't even know they're pregnant at 6 weeks. So who else is gonna know what she went out of state for? Are they gonna sue every woman who travels out of state? How will they know if they went out of state? If they can just assume, then we need to sue every single Republican woman of childbearing age. Just in case.

LOL Up for a challenge I see. Good luck. Keep it on the down low and don't boast about it afterwards because the law says you can be sued 6 years after the fact.

 

[Josie]

So am I. What's that got to do with abortion?

What do you think is being aborted?