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California is putting a few of these in right nowI missed this news from December 2018. This is incredible. This battery saved this Australian entity $40 Million in it's first year, and only cost $68 Million. Wow! The future is here!
View attachment 67249110
Tesla’s 100MW/129MWh Powerpack project in South Australia provide the same grid services as peaker plants, but cheaper, quicker, and with zero-emissions, through its battery system.
...
The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published earlier this year.
https://electrek.co/2018/11/09/tesla-pge-giant-energy-storage-replace-gas-plants/I missed this news from December 2018. This is incredible. This battery saved this Australian entity $40 Million in it's first year, and only cost $68 Million. Wow! The future is here!
View attachment 67249110
Tesla’s 100MW/129MWh Powerpack project in South Australia provide the same grid services as peaker plants, but cheaper, quicker, and with zero-emissions, through its battery system.
...
The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published earlier this year.
I missed this news from December 2018. This is incredible. This battery saved this Australian entity $40 Million in it's first year, and only cost $68 Million. Wow! The future is here!
View attachment 67249110
Tesla’s 100MW/129MWh Powerpack project in South Australia provide the same grid services as peaker plants, but cheaper, quicker, and with zero-emissions, through its battery system.
...
The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published earlier this year.
California is putting a few of these in right now
California is under liberal leftist progressive legal mandates to get some of these battery storage power systems on line soon, and there will be disastrous consequences if they do try to follow through with their foolish clean energy goals, according to researchers at MIT.
The $2.5 trillion reason we can't rely on batteries to clean up the grid with proposed sustainable energy technology
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...-cant-rely-on-batteries-to-clean-up-the-grid/
California is under liberal leftist progressive legal mandates to get some of these battery storage power systems on line soon...
Certainly the folks at MIT have some good points. That said, assuming the payback of the Australian system is true, the "expense" comments may be unwarranted. The Australian plant is a "peaker" plant, and it has proven to provide peak loads quickly. And as stated, the batteries do this better than Steam Turbines (gas or coal fired). And as far as a short life span, I would think these companies would have a change-out preventative maintenance plan. With a recycle-rebuild plan for the raw materials. Two of the three world's cutting-edge Lithium battery recycling companies are in the area - Central CA and OR. Obviously, this is all a moving target, and the critics will be plentiful.
As for this section of your comment, perhaps you should check out the American Lung Association's 10 worst cities for Ozone and Particulate Pollution. 8 of the 10 worst cities for Ozone - in CA. Particulates similar...
https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/sota/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities.html
Do you understand who has the responsibility to adhere to the EPA's clean air standards? --- The state and regional Government.
Batteries have huge storage needs, are extremely expensive, have low service lives, and low output per square foot floor of space compared to traditional power plants.
California is not wise to scrap their traditional plants in favor of these low life energy sources.
Batteries are not energy generators so I'm not sure why you're comparing this to a power plant. These were used for peak shaving and has already saved 40 mil in the first year alone. I know you conservatives are all about showering coal and oil companies with subsidies from the tax payer, but perhaps you can educate yourself on the subject and the details of the article before you come in with a dumbass opinion.
I missed this news from December 2018. This is incredible. This battery saved this Australian entity $40 Million in it's first year, and only cost $68 Million. Wow! The future is here!
View attachment 67249110
Tesla’s 100MW/129MWh Powerpack project in South Australia provide the same grid services as peaker plants, but cheaper, quicker, and with zero-emissions, through its battery system.
...
The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published earlier this year.
Batteries have huge storage needs, are extremely expensive, have low service lives, and low output per square foot floor of space compared to traditional power plants.
California is not wise to scrap their traditional plants in favor of these low life energy sources.
And yet Australia had less than a 2-year payback. By any economic standard, that's a tremendous ROI. Go figure. Electric cars are here to stay, so traditional thinking, regarding batteries and how they are maintained will go by the wayside. Lithium, cobalt and nickel are all 100% recyclable. This is the next big hurdle for LiIon batteries, and major efforts are underway.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywis...ent-recycling-process-for-lithiumion-cathodes
EPA standards and regulations are not like the laws of nature. Life has gotten on fine for hundreds of years before men came along to devise standards for everyone to follow. They are not meant to be viewed as required by God no matter if trying to meet them bankrupts a whole nation.
Batteries are not energy generators so I'm not sure why you're comparing this to a power plant. These were used for peak shaving and has already saved 40 mil in the first year alone. I know you conservatives are all about showering coal and oil companies with subsidies from the tax payer, but perhaps you can educate yourself on the subject and the details of the article before you come in with a dumbass opinion.
And yet Australia had less than a 2-year payback. By any economic standard, that's a tremendous ROI. Go figure. Electric cars are here to stay, so traditional thinking, regarding batteries and how they are maintained will go by the wayside. Lithium, cobalt and nickel are all 100% recyclable. This is the next big hurdle for LiIon batteries, and major efforts are underway.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywis...ent-recycling-process-for-lithiumion-cathodes
And life got along fine before we started burning fossil fuels by the megatons. Perhaps you should discuss with the residents of the state who are dying prematurely because of the pollution. Or must walk around with O2 tanks. Or must move out of the state. I suggest you peruse the American Lung Association website, and discover the health effects of these pollutants. They are actually recommending more stringent standards.
Batteries have huge storage needs, are extremely expensive, have low service lives, and low output per square foot floor of space compared to traditional power plants.
California is not wise to scrap their traditional plants in favor of these low life energy sources.
EPA standards and regulations are not like the laws of nature. Life has gotten on fine for hundreds of years before men came along to devise standards for everyone to follow. They are not meant to be viewed as required by God no matter if trying to meet them bankrupts a whole nation.
And yet Australia had less than a 2-year payback. By any economic standard, that's a tremendous ROI. Go figure. Electric cars are here to stay, so traditional thinking, regarding batteries and how they are maintained will go by the wayside. Lithium, cobalt and nickel are all 100% recyclable. This is the next big hurdle for LiIon batteries, and major efforts are underway.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywis...ent-recycling-process-for-lithiumion-cathodes
It won’t for the simple reason that lithium and cobalt are rare elements extracted through environmentally catastrophic mining. In fact, we’re going to see severe shortages of lithium and cobalt by 2050 based on current demand.
Fossils don't burn. We don't use them for fuel. What fuel are you most concerned about?And life got along fine before we started burning fossil fuels by the megatons.
Void argument. What pollution? What is polluting what?Perhaps you should discuss with the residents of the state who are dying prematurely because of the pollution.
I use O2 tanks on my aircraft for high altitude flights. Others use them to weld with. Others use them to mitigate the effects of smoking all their lives. Void argument fallacy. Which use is concerning you?Or must walk around with O2 tanks.
People move out of a State because they want to live in warmer climates, or they want to live where there is work for them, or simply because they like the community there. Void argument fallacy. Which reason is concerning you?Or must move out of the state.
What am I looking for? Void argument fallacy.I suggest you peruse the American Lung Association website,
Void argument fallacy. What pollutants? What is polluting what?and discover the health effects of these pollutants.
Over what? Void argument fallacy.They are actually recommending more stringent standards.
No, watt for watt, wind generators require tremendous amounts of real estate, and produce very little power compared to a single coal, oil or natural gas fired power plant or nuclear power plant.Great points! Also, newer wind turbines are now starting to generate at 10-knot wind speeds (versus 20 knots with the older technology). Wind turbines were already one of the lowest cost generation methods, and this just made that better. These battery plants give more flexibility to the Utility companies.
Fine. Install one. Don't expect me to willingly pay for your system though.I'm still a fan of rooftop solar PV systems.
If you like them, buy one. No one is stopping you. Don't expect me to willingly pay for your system, though.Although a little more costly per kWH, the prices continue to drop.
They are incredible peak-load producers, which holds down electricity costs for all consumers, by preventing the need for future power plant construction.
When netmetered, because these systems are point of source, they can dramatically decrease the voltage loss of power generation, also holding down the cost of electricity for consumers.
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