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Tesla’s giant battery saved $40 million during its first year, report says

Hawkeye10 said:
The problem with this thread is that we dont have enough information yet......... grid managers are still learning how to use batteries, and we are hoping that the batteries that we are using now will be obsolete in a few years, this is hopefully the Gemini that comes before Apollo.

Filed Under: Work in Progress.
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I love the idea of adding batteries to the grid and using solar energy. Solar is DC, batteries are DC, we have a rather direct connect... Solar panels have come down to reasonable prices, but storage for peak and night usage is still expensive.

And wind... Too expensive over the service life, and changes the patters of climate by attenuating the wind.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I love the idea of adding batteries to the grid and using solar energy. Solar is DC, batteries are DC, we have a rather direct connect... Solar panels have come down to reasonable prices, but storage for peak and night usage is still expensive.

And wind... Too expensive over the service life, and changes the patters of climate by attenuating the wind.
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But you know factoring in the emissions of the battery production they are not sure yet how green this whole idea is using current tech. One thing that will matter a lot is how fast these things lose their MoJo, which we dont know. Keep in mind while this battery seems to be earning its keep providing grid stability and frequency modulation services it does not actually store all that much energy, 129 MWatt/hours they say but I bet not all of that was actually usable even at the start, and that number will go down with time.

We'll See.
 
Wind, like anything else, will follow the path of least resistance. When you set up a wall of windmills, creating a resistance to its flow, some of that will will find an easier path to travel. You also don't get energy for free. All the gigawattts of power we take out of the wind is a reduction of its energy.

Granted, it is a very small number, but it does alter nature an a small amount. Remember, I didn't attempt to quantify the effects. I am only stating there is such an effect.

Nutter?

The nutter is the one who flat out denies the facts.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Wind, like anything else, will follow the path of least resistance. When you set up a wall of windmills, creating a resistance to its flow, some of that will will find an easier path to travel. You also don';t get energy for free. All the gigawattts of power we take out of the wind is a reduction of its energy.

Granted, it is a very small number, but it does alter nature an a small amount. Remember, I didn't attempt to quantify the effects. I am only stating there is such an effect.

Nutter?

The nutter is the one who flat out denies the facts.
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Brilliant.

And trees and grass are stealing our sunlight.

And the millions of people on earth are consuming all the atmospheric oxygen.
 
Threegoofs said:
Brilliant.

And trees and grass are stealing our sunlight.

And the millions of people on earth are consuming all the atmospheric oxygen.
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Here's an example of a nutter.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I think you have that backwards.

Dynamos (DC generators) are rarely used, and it's a car alternator that uses six diodes to produce smooth DC power. The alternator by design produces AC power, so they can directly feed the power system. It only needs to be synchronized. They last longer because they use slip rings on a smooth surface rather than commuter brushes of a changing surface. With your dynamo, you have to convert the DC power to AC power, which is rather expensive at those power levels. This is why we don't see very many HVDC power lines across the nation.
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Ceded.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Wind, like anything else, will follow the path of least resistance. When you set up a wall of windmills, creating a resistance to its flow, some of that will will find an easier path to travel. You also don't get energy for free. All the gigawattts of power we take out of the wind is a reduction of its energy.

Granted, it is a very small number, but it does alter nature an a small amount. Remember, I didn't attempt to quantify the effects. I am only stating there is such an effect.
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This is correct. The more windmills you add, the less power any one of them will be able to garner out of the available wind.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
But you know factoring in the emissions of the battery production they are not sure yet how green this whole idea is using current tech. One thing that will matter a lot is how fast these things lose their MoJo, which we dont know. Keep in mind while this battery seems to be earning its keep providing grid stability and frequency modulation services it does not actually store all that much energy, 129 MWatt/hours they say but I bet not all of that was actually usable even at the start, and that number will go down with time.

We'll See.
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What is wrong with emissions? Could you be more specific?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Do you understand that fluid dynamics has nothing to do with a claim that wind turbines would attenuate winds.
I'm not even going to try to explain this to you, not getting paid enough.
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LOL...

I understand enough about fluid dynamics to know they do play a part. Fluid dynamics include atmospheric movements.
 
Fluid dynamics

Fluid dynamics is the study of the motion of liquids, gases and plasmas. Flow is dependent on the intrinsic properties of the matter itself, such as compressibility, viscosity and density. Example systems are a liquid flowing through a pipe or capillary, air moving across an aeroplane wing, and plasma motion in a stars magnetic field.
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https://www.nature.com/subjects/fluid-dynamics

Weather models use systems of differential equations based on the laws of physics, which are in detail fluid motion, thermodynamics, radiative transfer, and chemistry, and use a coordinate system which divides the planet into a 3D grid. Winds, heat transfer, solar radiation, relative humidity, phase changes of water and surface hydrology are calculated within each grid cell, and the interactions with neighboring cells are used to calculate atmospheric properties in the future.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_weather_prediction

Here is another ecological damage wind farms do:

Wind farms have cascading impacts on ecosystems across trophic levels
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Do you understand that fluid dynamics has nothing to do with a claim that wind turbines would attenuate winds.
I'm not even going to try to explain this to you, not getting paid enough.
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Uh...yes it does. Lord of Planar is quite right about this. Air is a fluid, dude.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Do you understand that fluid dynamics has nothing to do with a claim that wind turbines would attenuate winds.
I'm not even going to try to explain this to you, not getting paid enough.
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So...

Are you claiming that you could put an infinite amount of windmills in the path of the wind, and there would be no attenuation of the wind, or directional change?
 
Lord of Planar said:
So...

Are you claiming that you could put an infinite amount of windmills in the path of the wind, and there would be no attenuation of the wind, or directional change?
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SolarWind_CloseUp.JPG

Damn. The police are going to come and arrest me :wow:
 
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