Tesla’s giant battery saved $40 million during its first year, report says

[Media_Truth]

I missed this news from December 2018. This is incredible. This battery saved this Australian entity $40 Million in it's first year, and only cost $68 Million. Wow! The future is here!



Tesla’s 100MW/129MWh Powerpack project in South Australia provide the same grid services as peaker plants, but cheaper, quicker, and with zero-emissions, through its battery system.
...
The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published earlier this year.

 

[jdog21]

I missed this news from December 2018. This is incredible. This battery saved this Australian entity $40 Million in it's first year, and only cost $68 Million. Wow! The future is here!

View attachment 67249110

Tesla’s 100MW/129MWh Powerpack project in South Australia provide the same grid services as peaker plants, but cheaper, quicker, and with zero-emissions, through its battery system.
...
The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published earlier this year.

California is putting a few of these in right now

 

[jdog21]

I missed this news from December 2018. This is incredible. This battery saved this Australian entity $40 Million in it's first year, and only cost $68 Million. Wow! The future is here!

View attachment 67249110

Tesla’s 100MW/129MWh Powerpack project in South Australia provide the same grid services as peaker plants, but cheaper, quicker, and with zero-emissions, through its battery system.
...
The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published earlier this year.

https://electrek.co/2018/11/09/tesla-pge-giant-energy-storage-replace-gas-plants/
Check this out

 

[Xelor]

Initial Operation of the Hornsdale Power Reserve

 

[marke]

I missed this news from December 2018. This is incredible. This battery saved this Australian entity $40 Million in it's first year, and only cost $68 Million. Wow! The future is here!

View attachment 67249110

Tesla’s 100MW/129MWh Powerpack project in South Australia provide the same grid services as peaker plants, but cheaper, quicker, and with zero-emissions, through its battery system.
...
The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published earlier this year.

California is under liberal leftist progressive legal mandates to get some of these battery storage power systems on line soon, and there will be disastrous consequences if they do try to follow through with their foolish clean energy goals, according to researchers at MIT.

The $2.5 trillion reason we can't rely on batteries to clean up the grid with proposed sustainable energy technology

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...-cant-rely-on-batteries-to-clean-up-the-grid/

 

[Media_Truth]

California is putting a few of these in right now

Good to hear! I was just reading about Li Ion batteries, including the supply of Lithium and the ability to recycle. 66% of the world's Lithium is in South America, with most in the ABC sector (Argentina, Brazil and Chile). These countries are ramping up production, especially Argentina.

Info on recycling --->

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywis...ent-recycling-process-for-lithiumion-cathodes

Lithium batteries have anodes made of graphite and cathodes made of lithium metal oxides, where the metal is some combination of cobalt, nickel, manganese, and iron. Less than five percent of old lithium batteries are recycled today. As millions of large EV batteries retire in the next decade, we’re going to send even bigger mountains of flammable, toxic battery waste to landfills. Plus, that waste contains valuable metals. There is serious concern that supplies of critical metals like cobalt and lithium are dwindling. Recycling is going to be key if we’re to keep up with battery demand.

 

[Media_Truth]

California is under liberal leftist progressive legal mandates to get some of these battery storage power systems on line soon, and there will be disastrous consequences if they do try to follow through with their foolish clean energy goals, according to researchers at MIT.

The $2.5 trillion reason we can't rely on batteries to clean up the grid with proposed sustainable energy technology

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...-cant-rely-on-batteries-to-clean-up-the-grid/

Certainly the folks at MIT have some good points. That said, assuming the payback of the Australian system is true, the "expense" comments may be unwarranted. The Australian plant is a "peaker" plant, and it has proven to provide peak loads quickly. And as stated, the batteries do this better than Steam Turbines (gas or coal fired). And as far as a short life span, I would think these companies would have a change-out preventative maintenance plan. With a recycle-rebuild plan for the raw materials. Two of the three world's cutting-edge Lithium battery recycling companies are in the area - Central CA and OR. Obviously, this is all a moving target, and the critics will be plentiful.

 

[Media_Truth]

California is under liberal leftist progressive legal mandates to get some of these battery storage power systems on line soon...

As for this section of your comment, perhaps you should check out the American Lung Association's 10 worst cities for Ozone and Particulate Pollution. 8 of the 10 worst cities for Ozone - in CA. Particulates similar...

https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/sota/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities.html

Do you understand who has the responsibility to adhere to the EPA's clean air standards? --- The state and regional Government.

 

[marke]

Certainly the folks at MIT have some good points. That said, assuming the payback of the Australian system is true, the "expense" comments may be unwarranted. The Australian plant is a "peaker" plant, and it has proven to provide peak loads quickly. And as stated, the batteries do this better than Steam Turbines (gas or coal fired). And as far as a short life span, I would think these companies would have a change-out preventative maintenance plan. With a recycle-rebuild plan for the raw materials. Two of the three world's cutting-edge Lithium battery recycling companies are in the area - Central CA and OR. Obviously, this is all a moving target, and the critics will be plentiful.

Batteries have huge storage needs, are extremely expensive, have low service lives, and low output per square foot floor of space compared to traditional power plants.

California is not wise to scrap their traditional plants in favor of these low life energy sources.

 

[marke]

As for this section of your comment, perhaps you should check out the American Lung Association's 10 worst cities for Ozone and Particulate Pollution. 8 of the 10 worst cities for Ozone - in CA. Particulates similar...

https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/sota/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities.html

Do you understand who has the responsibility to adhere to the EPA's clean air standards? --- The state and regional Government.

EPA standards and regulations are not like the laws of nature. Life has gotten on fine for hundreds of years before men came along to devise standards for everyone to follow. They are not meant to be viewed as required by God no matter if trying to meet them bankrupts a whole nation.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Batteries have huge storage needs, are extremely expensive, have low service lives, and low output per square foot floor of space compared to traditional power plants.

California is not wise to scrap their traditional plants in favor of these low life energy sources.

Batteries are not energy generators so I'm not sure why you're comparing this to a power plant. These were used for peak shaving and has already saved 40 mil in the first year alone. I know you conservatives are all about showering coal and oil companies with subsidies from the tax payer, but perhaps you can educate yourself on the subject and the details of the article before you come in with a dumbass opinion.

 

[marke]

Batteries are not energy generators so I'm not sure why you're comparing this to a power plant. These were used for peak shaving and has already saved 40 mil in the first year alone. I know you conservatives are all about showering coal and oil companies with subsidies from the tax payer, but perhaps you can educate yourself on the subject and the details of the article before you come in with a dumbass opinion.

I offered the opinions of experts I thought made a good case for not rushing into energy plans that involve putting all the eggs in the lone green energy basket. I'm sorry if you found fault with their assessment.

 

[AlphaOmega]

I missed this news from December 2018. This is incredible. This battery saved this Australian entity $40 Million in it's first year, and only cost $68 Million. Wow! The future is here!

View attachment 67249110

Tesla’s 100MW/129MWh Powerpack project in South Australia provide the same grid services as peaker plants, but cheaper, quicker, and with zero-emissions, through its battery system.
...
The system is basically a victim of its own efficiency, which the Australian Energy Market Operator confirmed is much more rapid, accurate and valuable than a conventional steam turbine in a report published earlier this year.

wheres the link?

 

[Media_Truth]

Batteries have huge storage needs, are extremely expensive, have low service lives, and low output per square foot floor of space compared to traditional power plants.

California is not wise to scrap their traditional plants in favor of these low life energy sources.

And yet Australia had less than a 2-year payback. By any economic standard, that's a tremendous ROI. Go figure. Electric cars are here to stay, so traditional thinking, regarding batteries and how they are maintained will go by the wayside. Lithium, cobalt and nickel are all 100% recyclable. This is the next big hurdle for LiIon batteries, and major efforts are underway.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywis...ent-recycling-process-for-lithiumion-cathodes

 

[Napoleon]

And yet Australia had less than a 2-year payback. By any economic standard, that's a tremendous ROI. Go figure. Electric cars are here to stay, so traditional thinking, regarding batteries and how they are maintained will go by the wayside. Lithium, cobalt and nickel are all 100% recyclable. This is the next big hurdle for LiIon batteries, and major efforts are underway.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywis...ent-recycling-process-for-lithiumion-cathodes

It won’t for the simple reason that lithium and cobalt are rare elements extracted through environmentally catastrophic mining. In fact, we’re going to see severe shortages of lithium and cobalt by 2050 based on current demand.

 

[Media_Truth]

EPA standards and regulations are not like the laws of nature. Life has gotten on fine for hundreds of years before men came along to devise standards for everyone to follow. They are not meant to be viewed as required by God no matter if trying to meet them bankrupts a whole nation.

And life got along fine before we started burning fossil fuels by the megatons. Perhaps you should discuss with the residents of the state who are dying prematurely because of the pollution. Or must walk around with O2 tanks. Or must move out of the state. I suggest you peruse the American Lung Association website, and discover the health effects of these pollutants. They are actually recommending more stringent standards.

 

[Media_Truth]

Batteries are not energy generators so I'm not sure why you're comparing this to a power plant. These were used for peak shaving and has already saved 40 mil in the first year alone. I know you conservatives are all about showering coal and oil companies with subsidies from the tax payer, but perhaps you can educate yourself on the subject and the details of the article before you come in with a dumbass opinion.

Great points! Also, newer wind turbines are now starting to generate at 10-knot wind speeds (versus 20 knots with the older technology). Wind turbines were already one of the lowest cost generation methods, and this just made that better. These battery plants give more flexibility to the Utility companies.

I'm still a fan of rooftop solar PV systems. Although a little more costly per kWH, the prices continue to drop. They are incredible peak-load producers, which holds down electricity costs for all consumers, by preventing the need for future power plant construction. When netmetered, because these systems are point of source, they can dramatically decrease the voltage loss of power generation, also holding down the cost of electricity for consumers.

 

[marke]

And yet Australia had less than a 2-year payback. By any economic standard, that's a tremendous ROI. Go figure. Electric cars are here to stay, so traditional thinking, regarding batteries and how they are maintained will go by the wayside. Lithium, cobalt and nickel are all 100% recyclable. This is the next big hurdle for LiIon batteries, and major efforts are underway.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywis...ent-recycling-process-for-lithiumion-cathodes

Maybe hope and hype can eventually drive research leading to the discovery of solutions to overcome the substantial problems facing a future dependency on batteries for powering the electricity needs of cities and states.

 

[marke]

And life got along fine before we started burning fossil fuels by the megatons. Perhaps you should discuss with the residents of the state who are dying prematurely because of the pollution. Or must walk around with O2 tanks. Or must move out of the state. I suggest you peruse the American Lung Association website, and discover the health effects of these pollutants. They are actually recommending more stringent standards.

I think common sense should drive the pollution narrative. Do we want to ban gasoline engines? No. Do we want to crush the economy with regulations designed to improve air quality by .03% over 30 years? No. Too much regulation based on too much fear of the potential consequences of industrial progress and development will slow the economy and make it hard for those living longer to pay their heating bills all the way to the inevitable end.

EPA standards should be based on a balance between environment concerns and future social and economic living conditions. Extreme goals will be counterproductive to the need to actually live and prosper in the real world. Few people will want to live in an impoverished world environment which has been kept clean by spending which has drained the fiscal life out of the economy.

 

[Into the Night]

Batteries have huge storage needs, are extremely expensive, have low service lives, and low output per square foot floor of space compared to traditional power plants.

California is not wise to scrap their traditional plants in favor of these low life energy sources.

These batteries are not energy sources. They are ballast. They must be charged from an energy source.

 

[Into the Night]

EPA standards and regulations are not like the laws of nature. Life has gotten on fine for hundreds of years before men came along to devise standards for everyone to follow. They are not meant to be viewed as required by God no matter if trying to meet them bankrupts a whole nation.

The EPA has not cleaned up a single bit of pollution since they were created.

 

[Into the Night]

And yet Australia had less than a 2-year payback. By any economic standard, that's a tremendous ROI. Go figure. Electric cars are here to stay, so traditional thinking, regarding batteries and how they are maintained will go by the wayside. Lithium, cobalt and nickel are all 100% recyclable. This is the next big hurdle for LiIon batteries, and major efforts are underway.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywis...ent-recycling-process-for-lithiumion-cathodes

No battery is 100% recyclable. The casing, the labels, the fuel used to transport them to the site for use or to the recycling center are all not recyclable.

Will the electric car stay? Maybe, maybe not. YOU are not a prophet. Electric cars must be charged. The electricity from that charge comes from the same places electricity comes from now: coal plants, oil plants, hydroelectric, wind, solar, natural gas, etc. They also have limited range and their fueling cycle is lengthy, making them impractical to use as a cross country vehicle. That have great traction (independent wheel traction...great for snow!), and are quiet. They have very good acceleration. They are costly, however. They do well as a commuter car.

I, for one, don't like paying for someone else's car. Tax credits for such cars should be removed. Let them compete in the open market.

 

[Into the Night]

It won’t for the simple reason that lithium and cobalt are rare elements extracted through environmentally catastrophic mining. In fact, we’re going to see severe shortages of lithium and cobalt by 2050 based on current demand.

Lithium isn't destroyed when put into a battery and the battery can no longer charge. Even in the landfill, it's still lithium. The same is true for cobalt.

Why do you see a shortage of lithium and cobalt?

 

[Into the Night]

And life got along fine before we started burning fossil fuels by the megatons.

Fossils don't burn. We don't use them for fuel. What fuel are you most concerned about?

Perhaps you should discuss with the residents of the state who are dying prematurely because of the pollution.

Void argument. What pollution? What is polluting what?

Or must walk around with O2 tanks.

I use O2 tanks on my aircraft for high altitude flights. Others use them to weld with. Others use them to mitigate the effects of smoking all their lives. Void argument fallacy. Which use is concerning you?

Or must move out of the state.

People move out of a State because they want to live in warmer climates, or they want to live where there is work for them, or simply because they like the community there. Void argument fallacy. Which reason is concerning you?

I suggest you peruse the American Lung Association website,

What am I looking for? Void argument fallacy.

and discover the health effects of these pollutants.

Void argument fallacy. What pollutants? What is polluting what?

They are actually recommending more stringent standards.

Over what? Void argument fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

Great points! Also, newer wind turbines are now starting to generate at 10-knot wind speeds (versus 20 knots with the older technology). Wind turbines were already one of the lowest cost generation methods, and this just made that better. These battery plants give more flexibility to the Utility companies.

No, watt for watt, wind generators require tremendous amounts of real estate, and produce very little power compared to a single coal, oil or natural gas fired power plant or nuclear power plant.

I'm still a fan of rooftop solar PV systems.

Fine. Install one. Don't expect me to willingly pay for your system though.

Although a little more costly per kWH, the prices continue to drop.

If you like them, buy one. No one is stopping you. Don't expect me to willingly pay for your system, though.

They are incredible peak-load producers, which holds down electricity costs for all consumers, by preventing the need for future power plant construction.
When netmetered, because these systems are point of source, they can dramatically decrease the voltage loss of power generation, also holding down the cost of electricity for consumers.

Solar is an expensive source of power compared to things like coal plants, oil plants, hydroelectric power, natural gas plants, or nuclear power.