Keeping with the theme as outlined in the " Terror Tunnels ? " thread we perhaps need to go a little deeper to see how perceptions are shaped by the use of the terminology
With regards to the " terror tunnels " into Israeli from Gaza it came about that a poster made the point that , even if they had not been used for ant terror attacks , their existence and the effect it had on Israeli civilians living near the border was enough to justify the term. I think that's what they meant to infer anyhow. No matter let's take it as a reasonable point
The tunnels engender fear in the Israeli border communities and as such the term " terror tunnel " is valid. Okay so let's leave that as the statement to work from
Moving on let's have the same thing applied to the Palestinian people , in an attempt at objective analysis. Wishing to apply the same standards to both parties
So what acts and/or actions do the Israeli side carry out that will engender fear in the Palestinian population under siege and/or occupation ? And if we identify them properly should we label the in the same way ? To me , if you seek to be objective there can only be one answer to that question ,
I would say the reality of the military occupation and/or siege the Palestinians live under would be sure to engender understandable fears amongst the Palestinians. So that should be included
The targeted assassination programme is sure to be included too. Living with drones buzzing overhead , not knowing if the car that passing you in the street is the intended target for a missile strike that may well kill you in the process
The frequent wide scale military attacks in which , every time , masses of innocents people are always killed would also make that list without any issue or controversy
The Gazan buffer zone too would see Palestinians justifiably scared of being shot for entering it to farm it or scavenge from it
The policy of administrative detention which sees people arrested , often at night , and taken away without charge or trial is sure to make it too
If the list above is capable of engendering fears into Palestinian people , which is surely the case , then why aren't we wondering why they are not given the same treatment when it comes the terminology being used ?
Are Palestinian fears less important than Israeli fears ? They shouldn't be
At this point , or earlier , you might be wondering why is this a big deal ?
Well, to me if you class all actions by the Palestinians as terrorism and or seek to tack it on to this type of subject then the demonization taking place of the Palestinians is highly dangerous as we have seen before when a people are being dehumanized . It can see people grant themselves and get support for things , crimes and atrocities , that would never be allowed without it
In a recent thread a poster here circumvented their own definition of terrorism so as to label the children throwing stones as "terrorists" engaged in terrorism. You won't need me to tell you how chilling a precedent that sets
To conclude , should we be demanding that parity be the way to view the conflict and if we are okay with the tunnels being " terror tunnels " we should also be okay with the same labels being applied to Israeli actions that engender fear into Palestinians ?
A list for this purpose might look like the following
The Israeli terror administrative detention programme
The Israeli terror siege of Gaza
The Israeli terror occupation of the Palestinians
The Israeli terror targeted assassination programme
The terror Israeli buffer zone
If you find the above ridiculous then you should maybe recall the context of the tag being used to describe something that instils fears in the people on the other side. If you still think it ridiculous then maybe you should ask yourself why you so readily accept it when it is applied only to Palestinian activities and/or your own claim to " objectivity "
What "siege of Gaza"?
If you have to ask, you have already dismissed the answer. So why ask?
If you have to ask, you have already dismissed the answer. So why ask?
It was easier than addressing the thread matter
A glorious example of a non answer....
The OP brings up this so called "siege of Gaza"....
What "siege" are you talking about?
The tunnels are called terror tunnels because their intention is to attack civilians.
Speculation that belongs in the terror tunnel thread itself. This thread is concerned with what instils fear and the terror tag association that has been offered in that thread but is set to be investigated here
derailment attempt two
try discussing the theme of the thread
Says the person that never even attempted any comment on the thread matter and , imo , tried an instant derailment instead
Then don't repeat a debunked assertion.
Second part of my comment regarding an equation drawn between acts of terror and the legitimate actions taken against them remains relevant, if anyone feels terrorized by an insanely justified blockade on a territory controlled by murderous terrorists he should clearly blame the terrorists as it's only common sense.
Is not the "siege of Gaza" part of the Terminology you speak of?
Why yes it is...
How can you label something the "Siege of Gaza" if you cannot explain what this so called "siege" is?
There wasn't one. You claim the tunnels are for terrorist attack the facts say they have never been used for such. And as I said earlier it isn't really relevant to the theme under discussion which is that their very existence justifies the term because of the fear they engender. Easy enough distinction to understand
The blame game isn't the subject under discussion either. We are solely talking about the terminology used to describe acts that engender fear being related to " terror ". They appear to be accepted if the victim is Jewish/Israeli but seem to be rejected if the victim is Palestinian. Again an easy enough distinction to understand
Derailment attempt 3
Why ?
Because you want to focus on a miniscule part of a large post in order NOT to discuss the overall subject matter
Obvious and continued derailment attempts , no more no less
If you actually wanted to discuss the subject you could easily do so by ignoring that very small part and answering the heart of the theme within the entire post. You don't want to , obviously
Derailment attempt 3
Why ?
Because you want to focus on a miniscule part of a large post in order NOT to discuss the overall subject matter
Obvious and continued derailment attempts , no more no less
If you actually wanted to discuss the subject you could easily do so by ignoring that very small part and answering the heart of the theme within the entire post. You don't want to , obviously
Derailment attempt 3
Why ?
Because you want to focus on a miniscule part of a large post in order NOT to discuss the overall subject matter
Obvious and continued derailment attempts , no more no less
If you actually wanted to discuss the subject you could easily do so by ignoring that very small part and answering the heart of the theme within the entire post. You don't want to , obviously
What’s the subject matter?
oneworld2 said:The tunnels engender fear in the Israeli border communities and as such the term " terror tunnel " is valid. Okay so let's leave that as the statement to work from
Moving on let's have the same thing applied to the Palestinian people , in an attempt at objective analysis. Wishing to apply the same standards to both parties
So what acts and/or actions do the Israeli side carry out that will engender fear in the Palestinian population under siege and/or occupation ? And if we identify them properly should we label them in the same way ? To me , if you seek to be objective there can only be one answer to that question
There are disputed territories that exist because the Arabs failed in their attempt to destroy Israel and refused to recognize any borders. There has never been a Palestinian state and no other state has ever had legitimate sovereign control over the territory so it can’t be “occupied”.
Have you moved from false accusations of strawman to false accusations of thread derailment?
Neither are false
I have explained why any talk of what is being targeted is outside of the topic of what the actions themselves engender in the respective civilian populations.
Hamas has never attacked civilians from the tunnels from Gaza but the fear that they might amongst the civilian population , their existence posing a genuine and understandable threat which engenders fear of harm has been posited as a justification for them being , legitimately , referred to as terror tunnels.
Thus
IDF attacks that are aimed , allegedly , at targeting Hamas combatants likewise pose an understandable and real danger to the lives of the civilian population of Gaza could be deemed as terror attacks if they , as they do , engender fear of death or injury to them too. In fact the numbers killed every time serve to completely validate those fears
If it's not relevant don't mention it as you did in the OP, and it is a debunked assertion. That they haven't managed to carry out an attack doesn't remove their intention.
No, you want to draw an equation between the terrorists' actions and the legitimate actions taken to protect against them, you're claiming people are being hypocrites when they don't refer to the threat from Palestinian terrorists the same way they refer to the Israeli defensive actions taken against these acts of terrorism. Again, if a Palestinian feels 'terrorized' by the existence of an insanely legitimate Egyptian and Israeli blockade on a territory run by brutal Islamist terrorists, the action that makes him feel terrorized is caused by Palestinian terrorists. It's a fairly simple concept that you're struggling with here.
Both are false clearly, you cannot claim that someone is derailing a thread by referring to text from the OP no matter how much it upsets you, it's not even up for discussion and hopefully this is where it ends otherwise you continue to derail your own thread by attacking those referring to the OP.
Hamas are a terror group that carries attacks on civilians as part of an agenda, they openly speak about their intentions and indeed have been following through with dozens of thousands of terror attacks directed at civilians, so when such organization is digging a tunnel deep into Israeli territory it's safe to call these terror tunnels, no one should be afraid that he might be demonizing one of the most brutal terror groups out there and no one who hasn't completely lost every shard of the humanity he was born with should protest and cry that one of the most brutal terror groups out there is being demonized.
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