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it was explained well enough in the opening post but I didn't take into account the lack of comprehension skills of some of the posters here

here's how it was set out


Not hard to understand but people still manage to or maybe just with malicious intent

You made a list...

We are discussing the failure of that list.
 
Neither are false

I have explained why any talk of what is being targeted is outside of the topic of what the actions themselves engender in the respective civilian populations.

Hamas has never attacked civilians from the tunnels from Gaza but the fear that they might amongst the civilian population , their existence posing a genuine and understandable threat which engenders fear of harm has been posited as a justification for them being , legitimately , referred to as terror tunnels.

Thus

IDF attacks that are aimed , allegedly , at targeting Hamas combatants likewise pose an understandable and real danger to the lives of the civilian population of Gaza could be deemed as terror attacks if they , as they do , engender fear of death or injury to them too. In fact the numbers killed every time serve to completely validate those fears


IDF attacks that are aimed , allegedly , at targeting Hamas combatants likewise pose an understandable and real danger to the lives of the civilian population of Gaza could be deemed as terror attacks if they , as they do , engender fear of death or injury to them too. In fact the numbers killed every time serve to completely validate those fears

YUUUUUGE difference.

Hamas regularly targets civilians.
 
You made a list...

We are discussing the failure of that list.

No we're discussing your lack of understanding as to what the discussion focuses on, Ongoing
 
I mentioned it in the opening line purely because

Completely irrelevant, once you made a claim in the OP you got called out on it and it was completely legitimate, your constant attacks on those calling it out and destroying that claim is A) an attempt to divert attention from said destruction and B) an attempt to derail your own thread, which seems to be a repeated tactic. People will continue to respond to claims you're making and you'll just need to cope with that.

And that assertion was never debunked.

False.

If the Palestinian ever ceased the resort to terrorism you would have to do it to yourselves

Huh?

Many of your actions are not legitimate, just as many of theirs aren't

To claim legitimacy for an armed attack/act of war you have to exhaust all peaceful alternatives. Refusing a ceasefire with Hamas is clearly contrary to that and as such the attacks themselves are illegitimate

Nonsense exposing the complete lack of logic driving you to accept an argument no logical being could ever ignore the flaws of. Not accepting a ceasefire with terrorists knowing that they're using it to arm themselves and knowing that their nature and agenda are that of Islamist terrorism targeting your civilians is not "not exhausting all peaceful alternatives". The moment terrorists attack your citizens you have the right and duty to completely destroy them and prevent their attacks, that you are unable to recognize such a simple fact of life is quite horrifying as is the fact that you seem to have convinced yourself that pushing this "ceasefire with terrorists good" nonsense would hide your pro-violence agenda supporting the violence employed by the murderous group in every opportunity and opposing the most legitimate types of actions taken against them.

The IDF engages in many indiscriminate attacks

Already debunked and proven to be a lie.

The blockade is obviously a collective punishment

Already debunked and proven to be a lie, that's entirely your assertion.

The administrative detentions contravene due process and are violations of the rights of people under occupation.

As an occupying power you have much more in the way of responsibilities for the well being of the people you occupy than you appear to be aware of................
https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/resources/documents/misc/634kfc.htm


Seeing as this blockade will engender real fears of poor health and thus disease or death from disease within the civilian population should these fears , as with the fears of Israelis from the tunnels , be referred to as the terror blockade ? Or is that an option open only to Israeli civilians ?

Had Egypt and Israel not placed a blockade on the territory of Gaza after terrorists took over it they would be allowing it to be armed and thus the governments of Egypt and Israel would have been engaging in an act of severe inhumanity as allowing terrorists to be armed is no different than promoting the murder of innocent civilians. Your objection to the blockade as already shown is a support for a collective punishment on Israeli citizens as you argue for allowing a terror group that commits murder on par an agenda to be armed so they can murder more civilians. Ironic that you describe the insanely legitimate act in the manner of a crime that you support against Israeli citizens.

So to answer your question, if a Palestinian feels fear from an Israeli act of self defense meant to stop a Gazan terrorist from murdering an innocent human being, why shouldn't it be referred to as a Palestinian terror action? I've long argued that the Palestinians who are held hostage by the Hamas' actions attempting to get them killed are facing the same kind of Palestinian terrorism.
 
IDF attacks that are aimed , allegedly , at targeting Hamas combatants likewise pose an understandable and real danger to the lives of the civilian population of Gaza could be deemed as terror attacks if they , as they do , engender fear of death or injury to them too. In fact the numbers killed every time serve to completely validate those fears

YUUUUUGE difference.

Hamas regularly targets civilians.

You should perhaps give up now because you obviously have a real issue with comprehension and it's get embarrassing for you me pointing it out every post , or at least it should be though I ain't holding my breath on it
 
Nope , I explained the difference clearly enough , it's just that you cannot counter it so you just carry on down the same wrong street proclaiming some sort of victory. It's sad tbh but wholly customary of your approach to debate imo

Cannot counter what, are you even aware what we're talking about here is your refusal to handle a discussion regarding points you've made or have you decided to take an approach of complete projection to the point where you pretend that it was I who attacked people because I'm not willing to cope with them calling out points I made in an OP of a thread I created? That's just too pathetic to be honest.

Have they not also carried out many acts of legitimate armed resistance too that has been miscast as terrorism ? Isn't it true that you don't want to see them get better weapons because they might actually not have to resort to such tactics ? Isn't it you that doesn't want a ceasefire agreement with them that would curtail all of their attacks , terrorist and non terrorist ?

In short without their resort to terrorist actions and/or indiscriminate attacks you would be laid bare as mass rights violators , illegal occupiers and illegal settlers , illegal annexers , etc etc

No wonder you don't want any changes aimed at or likely to stop the likelihood of future terrorist attacks. You're just trying to fool people that you do

Have ISIS carried attacks that are legitimate against Assad regime? Who the hell cares? You're talking about why I don't support arming one of the most brutal Islamist terror groups out there that had committed dozens of thousands of terror attacks, of murders and attempted murders, against innocent civilians.

That's insane.
 
You should perhaps give up now because you obviously have a real issue with comprehension and it's get embarrassing for you me pointing it out every post , or at least it should be though I ain't holding my breath on it

A little "Black knight" action there....

So, there terror tunnels. What are they good for?
 
I am addressing to OP. You are avoiding the discussion of the OP.

He clearly doesn't want to talk about, well, what he doesn't want to talk about, even though he mentioned what he now doesn't want to talk about. It's hard to keep up. Makes one want to ask what we aren't going to talk about.
 
...The Israeli terror occupation of the Palestinians...

My wife and I just got back from a weeklong tour of Israel: Tel Aviv/Jaffa, Nazareth, Jerusalem and Bethlehem. We were in both the Israeli and Palestinian sides to see the sights. It was peaceful, people were friendly and often spoken of peace. I think the only ones complaining are the anti-semites outside the region.
 
My wife and I just got back from a weeklong tour of Israel: Tel Aviv/Jaffa, Nazareth, Jerusalem and Bethlehem. We were in both the Israeli and Palestinian sides to see the sights. It was peaceful, people were friendly and often spoken of peace. I think the only ones complaining are the anti-semites outside the region.

One post here in this thread , one resort to an antisemitic smear. It's all most of you people have in my experience

If you seriously believe in what you claim you would have to turn a blind eye to the thousands of Palestinians that have been shot at the Gaza buffer fence over the past 7 months. Or the steady flow of kids shot for stone throwing some of whom fatally in West Bank village protests

You would be wise to watch the documentary 5 Broken Cameras that I put up here recently. You would be wise also to see what's going on in Hebron , where they never took you to

My guess is you will do very little if anything to find out the truth about life under occupation for most Palestinians and nothing to try to understand the collective punishment of Gaza for voting in their own elections a group that nobody told them would lead to a crushing of them as people

Maybe you think that the fears of Israeli civilians hold more weight/deserve more sympathy than the fears of Palestinian civilians but some of us just don't. If that means people will want to smear you or sully your name then I will accept it as being part of the price for trying to give a voice where there largely isn't one , in the Israeli Occupied Territory that is the US public perception of the conflict
 
He clearly doesn't want to talk about, well, what he doesn't want to talk about, even though he mentioned what he now doesn't want to talk about. It's hard to keep up. Makes one want to ask what we aren't going to talk about.

There's a really good reason why but I don't think you will want to talk about it much even when it is explained to you

The answer already stares you in the face in your last sentence. Try wondering why people here don't want to talk about how Israeli acts and actions will engender fear ( terror ) within the Palestinian civilian population and why any proposed use of the same terminology used to describe some Palestinian acts/actions that inspire fear ( terror ) in the Israeli population are met with such hostility or , probably deliberate in some cases , obtuseness
 
"Terror war"... Explain.

I have and you need to concentrate on this because it will be the last time I try to explain it to you.

You need to forget about what is the target or what is the aim, what is legitimate and what is not , in of all offensive actions on both sides and focus , (you do understand what the word focus means ?) on the FEARS those actions engender in the civilian populations of both sides

IE

If terror tunnels are thus legitimately named because they will instil an understandable fear in Israeli civilians then Israeli actions that will instil fear in the Palestinian civilian population should likewise be referred to as terror wars , terror administrative detention programme , terror blockade , terror targeted assassination programme etc etc

That's the context and that's why every time you have mentioned " targeting " or " legitimacy " you are outside of that context and thus in danger of being called out for derailment.

The targeting factor was and is done to death in other threads and that's why this one was set up so as to avoid just repeating the same. It's to do we nuanced discussion but I am beginning to believe there is a sorry lack of that here. So, prove me wrong and debate within the context given
 
You said "you people". LOL

Good luck with your attacks on Israel.

Correct , most who attack those of a Palestinian solidarity bent/ position use smear tactics with false charges of antisemitism just like you chose to do. As was the case with your one and only reply , correct ? So I don't know what you are complaining about or even if you are complaining at all

As I said I don't think you will go away from this and do some real research about what I pointed out. You will just , most likely , do drive by antisemite posts devoid of any willingness to engage in debate with someone holding the above mentioned view as you have proven here today already .
 
Correct , most who attack those of a Palestinian solidarity bent/ position use smear tactics with false charges of antisemitism just like you chose to do. As was the case with your one and only reply , correct ? So I don't know what you are complaining about or even if you are complaining at all

As I said I don't think you will go away from this and do some real research about what I pointed out. You will just , most likely , do drive by antisemite posts devoid of any willingness to engage in debate with someone holding the above mentioned view as you have proven here today already .
Dude, it's my firm belief that neither politics nor religion make people crazy. What happens is that crazy and/or hateful people are drawn to politics and/or religion in order to justify their hatefulness towards others. Most people, normal people, are too busy living their daily lives to spend a lot of time hating others. They are too busy with family, work and finding happiness for themselves and family. Ergo, people who are constantly spreading hate or actively engaged in attacking others are very sad people whom, IMO, are in great pain, either psychological or physical.


The Hebrew nation isn't perfect, but neither are the Palestinians. If anyone really gave a damn about the Palestinians they'd be helping the Palestinians build factories instead of sending them AK-47s, suicide belts and rockets. They'd be helping the Palestinians have better lives instead of encouraging them to sacrifice their lives to kill Jews.
 
Cannot counter what, are you even aware what we're talking about here is your refusal to handle a discussion regarding points you've made or have you decided to take an approach of complete projection to the point where you pretend that it was I who attacked people because I'm not willing to cope with them calling out points I made in an OP of a thread I created? That's just too pathetic to be honest.

I agree much of what you post is just " too pathetic to be honest. "

I have explained the context and have rightly called out those that wish to discuss the events listed in a different context. It's really really easy to understand. So it is reasonable to conclude that your crying is just a ruse so that no discussion of events in the given context is able to take place


Have ISIS carried attacks that are legitimate against Assad regime? Who the hell cares? You're talking about why I don't support arming one of the most brutal Islamist terror groups out there that had committed dozens of thousands of terror attacks, of murders and attempted murders, against innocent civilians.

You should actually be more honest and say that whilst you publicly claim to be horrified by terrorist atrocities you actually endorse everything that is in place to make them a reality. The brutal subjugation of an entire people , the availability of only indiscriminate weaponry and a rabid objection to ceasefire agreements

The people who are fooled by you must be really really dumb imo
 
My wife and I just got back from a weeklong tour of Israel: Tel Aviv/Jaffa, Nazareth, Jerusalem and Bethlehem. We were in both the Israeli and Palestinian sides to see the sights. It was peaceful, people were friendly and often spoken of peace. I think the only ones complaining are the anti-semites outside the region.

You are deadly accurate.

Hope you and your wife have enjoyed your stay here.
 
He clearly doesn't want to talk about, well, what he doesn't want to talk about, even though he mentioned what he now doesn't want to talk about. It's hard to keep up. Makes one want to ask what we aren't going to talk about.

It's not like there's a real plan behind it, just an endless attempt to derail one's own thread into arguments for the sake of arguing.

Posting a thread, getting a reply on it, attacking for _enter_reason_here_ and so on.
 
One post here in this thread , one resort to an antisemitic smear. It's all most of you people have in my experience

If you seriously believe in what you claim you would have to turn a blind eye to the thousands of Palestinians that have been shot at the Gaza buffer fence over the past 7 months. Or the steady flow of kids shot for stone throwing some of whom fatally in West Bank village protests

You would be wise to watch the documentary 5 Broken Cameras that I put up here recently. You would be wise also to see what's going on in Hebron , where they never took you to

My guess is you will do very little if anything to find out the truth about life under occupation for most Palestinians and nothing to try to understand the collective punishment of Gaza for voting in their own elections a group that nobody told them would lead to a crushing of them as people

Maybe you think that the fears of Israeli civilians hold more weight/deserve more sympathy than the fears of Palestinian civilians but some of us just don't. If that means people will want to smear you or sully your name then I will accept it as being part of the price for trying to give a voice where there largely isn't one , in the Israeli Occupied Territory that is the US public perception of the conflict

Is your reply to someone who tells you that he's been to the region and seen it with his own eyes really go consume some of my favorite propagnada? Great stuff.
 
There's a really good reason why but I don't think you will want to talk about it much even when it is explained to you

The answer already stares you in the face in your last sentence. Try wondering why people here don't want to talk about how Israeli acts and actions will engender fear ( terror ) within the Palestinian civilian population and why any proposed use of the same terminology used to describe some Palestinian acts/actions that inspire fear ( terror ) in the Israeli population are met with such hostility or , probably deliberate in some cases , obtuseness

The Palestinians have the option to live in peace with their neighbors.
 
You are deadly accurate.

Hope you and your wife have enjoyed your stay here.

Thanks and we did. Very clean but a little pricey compared to Europe. Also, the food sucked. :) It was one thing to be there for Shabbat, but the Israelis seem to love instant coffee whereas on the Arab side we finally found a decent cup of coffee. Obviously there wasn't any BLTs or ham sandwiches to be found, but I expected more meat, even if it was chicken or mutton. My wife and I didn't have a decent meal until we went back to Germany. That said, the cities were clean, the transportation cheap and the people were wonderful.

Old Jerusalem was a fascinating maze. I'm a big fan of history and there was a ton of it there. In the US, aside from indian burial mounds and cliff dwellings, there isn't anything here older than a few hundred years. There we saw structures that were often 2000 years old and some were closer to 4000 years old.
 
It's not like there's a real plan behind it, just an endless attempt to derail one's own thread into arguments for the sake of arguing.

Posting a thread, getting a reply on it, attacking for _enter_reason_here_ and so on.

It does have that odor about it.
 
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