Terminology 1

[Apocalypse]

I agree much of what you post is just " too pathetic to be honest. "

I have explained the context and have rightly called out those that wish to discuss the events listed in a different context. It's really really easy to understand. So it is reasonable to conclude that your crying is just a ruse so that no discussion of events in the given context is able to take place




You should actually be more honest and say that whilst you publicly claim to be horrified by terrorist atrocities you actually endorse everything that is in place to make them a reality. The brutal subjugation of an entire people , the availability of only indiscriminate weaponry and a rabid objection to ceasefire agreements

The people who are fooled by you must be really really dumb imo

So people who don't accept your radical alternative reality world are either dumb, prevented from expressing themselves by the Australian government, haven't watched enough propagnada, etc. We get it. Your alterantive reality is just that and those who won't accept it are making a logical choice.

 

[Apocalypse]

Thanks and we did. Very clean but a little pricey compared to Europe. Also, the food sucked. It was one thing to be there for Shabbat, but the Israelis seem to love instant coffee whereas on the Arab side we finally found a decent cup of coffee. Obviously there wasn't any BLTs or ham sandwiches to be found, but I expected more meat, even if it was chicken or mutton. My wife and I didn't have a decent meal until we went back to Germany. That said, the cities were clean, the transportation cheap and the people were wonderful.

Old Jerusalem was a fascinating maze. I'm a big fan of history and there was a ton of it there. In the US, aside from indian burial mounds and cliff dwellings, there isn't anything here older than a few hundred years. There we saw structures that were often 2000 years old and some were closer to 4000 years old.

You're right about the prices sadly, but the food? Seriously? Quite surprising to hear as most tourists I talk with mention the food at the top of their lists. Even if Mideastern/Mediterranean cuisine is not to your liking there's literally everything here from Asian to Italian, maybe you've had bad recommendations or you went to bad food areas although I'm struggling to think of a single block in Tel-Aviv/Jaffa with no good restaurants. But yeah Jerusalem is a must visit for anyone religious or not, every little stone in that city has a ridiculous amount of history behind it. You should have went to the Dead Sea too.

 

[Divine_Wind]

You're right about the prices sadly, but the food? Seriously? Quite surprising to hear as most tourists I talk with mention the food at the top of their lists. Even if Mideastern/Mediterranean cuisine is not to your liking there's literally everything here from Asian to Italian, maybe you've had bad recommendations or you went to bad food areas although I'm struggling to think of a single block in Tel-Aviv/Jaffa with no good restaurants. But yeah Jerusalem is a must visit for anyone religious or not, every little stone in that city has a ridiculous amount of history behind it. You should have went to the Dead Sea too.

I liked the salads and cheeses, but it was the lack of meat and instant coffee that was the worst. Yes, I saw other restaurants, but we were in various hotels without a car so rarely ate outside the hotel.

I was in Haifa in 1987 on a big grey boat. We couldn't tour Jerusalem because of the Intifada, but did tour the Dead Sea and Masada. Pretty cool.

 

[oneworld2]

Dude, it's my firm belief that neither politics nor religion make people crazy. What happens is that crazy and/or hateful people are drawn to politics and/or religion in order to justify their hatefulness towards others. Most people, normal people, are too busy living their daily lives to spend a lot of time hating others. They are too busy with family, work and finding happiness for themselves and family. Ergo, people who are constantly spreading hate or actively engaged in attacking others are very sad people whom, IMO, are in great pain, either psychological or physical.


The Hebrew nation isn't perfect, but neither are the Palestinians. If anyone really gave a damn about the Palestinians they'd be helping the Palestinians build factories instead of sending them AK-47s, suicide belts and rockets. They'd be helping the Palestinians have better lives instead of encouraging them to sacrifice their lives to kill Jews.

Thanks for that Mr Freud, I will take it on board lol

See you assume that your false charge that I am an antisemite is fact. That was your first mistake and the one that your entire post hung on. And it's just completely wrong. I neither hate Jews nor love Arabs . I am motivated by a strong sense of justice and see this conflict as being built on a massive injustice.

I never claim one side is perfect either and have a long and verifiable record of calling out the crimes committed by both sides. The problem here being that you are only accepted or liked if you criticize only the Palestinian crimes and join in with the racist demonisation of them ( and Arabs generally )

If you want to do a little research on why Gaza in particular is the way it is look up the venture that took over the Greenhouses Project after the illegal settlers left . Read the work of Sarah Roy on the de-development of Gaza. Only when the Palestinians are truly free from Israel domination can they hope to build better lives for themselves and their kids

 

[Divine_Wind]

Thanks for that Mr Freud, I will take it on board...

Happy to help. It looks like you need it.

 

[oneworld2]

So people who don't accept your radical alternative reality world are either dumb, prevented from expressing themselves by the Australian government, haven't watched enough propagnada, etc. We get it. Your alterantive reality is just that and those who won't accept it are making a logical choice.

Nope , if people haven't sussed out that everything you say you want to see being continued will only ensure more death and destruction on both sides is contradictory to your claim to be against violence then they are completely dumb imo

 

[oneworld2]

Happy to help. It looks like you need it.

:roll:

 

[Apocalypse]

Nope , if people haven't sussed out that everything you say you want to see being continued will only ensure more death and destruction on both sides is contradictory to your claim to be against violence then they are completely dumb imo

Uh-huh. Sure they are. "They don't accept my radicalism and pro-violence world view because they're stupid". Brilliant.

 

[oneworld2]

So , just as I suspected , 6 pages in and nobody here wants to refer to the fears of the Palestinian civilian population in the same way they want to refer to the fears of the Israeli civilian population.

If Israelis are fearful of some actions carried out by Palestinian combatants then it is right and legitimate to consider their " terror " whereas when it comes to the actions of the IDF engendering fear into the civilian population of Palestine well it simply cannot be regarded as "terror" for them

The Israeli Occupation of the American Mind is alive and kicking here for sure

 

[oneworld2]

Uh-huh. Sure they are. "They don't accept my radicalism and pro-violence world view because they're stupid". Brilliant.

How am I "pro violence" when I strongly support a ceasefire but you are a peacenik for rabid opposition to it ?

Only in an upside down world of sophistry is that even possible

 

[Divine_Wind]

...The Israeli Occupation of the American Mind is alive and kicking here for sure

It fits that you believe the ZOG conspiracy theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory

 

[oneworld2]

It fits that you believe the ZOG conspiracy theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory

Of course it's an antesemitic CT

The US people want to stop the realisation of just two state solution all by themselves don't they ?

They also want to give billions of dollars , year in year out , so Israel can massacre Palestinians with Hitech weapons and build masses of illegal settlements in other peoples territories too

They all want to attack Iran

They all support the circumvention of the US laws pertaining to the sale of arms to countries with human rights abuse issues too

Facts are facts and if saying so is antisemitic then count me in I don't mind

 

[oneworld2]

It fits that you believe the ZOG conspiracy theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory

Just to clarify a little more if you read what I wrote and not what you thought I wrote ( we're back to you believing your own opinions as being facts here btw ) you would see that the word" government" wasn't even mentioned and the target of charge of what was considered as being under occupation was the American Mind. Which as studies have shown is absolutely a charge that is on the money. And is reflected here imo for the reasons given in this thread btw

My view on the US governmental relationship with Israel is that in many instances they have a mutually beneficial friendship/interests but when the US interest differs then the Israeli friendship assumes the subordinate position. Which is actually different to the view you wish to ascribe to me. Why do you do that ? Because you foolishly believe your opinions and assumptions are undeniable/ incontestable facts.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Of course it's an antesemitic CT...

Agreed.

Just to clarify a little more if you read what I wrote and not what you thought I wrote ( we're back to you believing your own opinions as being facts here btw )...

ROFL

You're making a rookie mistake, but that's just evidence of your youth versus my experience. Very amusing!

 

[Fledermaus]

I have and you need to concentrate on this because it will be the last time I try to explain it to you.

Post number?

You need to forget about what is the target or what is the aim, what is legitimate and what is not , in of all offensive actions on both sides and focus , (you do understand what the word focus means ?) on the FEARS those actions engender in the civilian populations of both sides

Lets just stop this bull**** right here and now...

The target and intent is EXACTLY what defines TERRORIST attacks....

ter·ror·ism
/ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

The target of Hamas has been historically CIVILIANS. Note the definition... "especially against civilians"

That they occasionally get the balls to kidnap an IDF member remember that the intent of doing so is not military gain but some sort of concession from the Israelis.... Note the "in the pursuit of political aims."

So the tunnels are a clear and present danger. For terror acts.

You never answered about the construction materials.

 

[Fledermaus]

So , just as I suspected , 6 pages in and nobody here wants to refer to the fears of the Palestinian civilian population in the same way they want to refer to the fears of the Israeli civilian population.

FFS YOU began derailing your own thread pages ago.

I was the only one interested in the terminology you presented.

 

[oneworld2]

Agreed.

ROFL

You're making a rookie mistake, but that's just evidence of your youth versus my experience. Very amusing!

Nope, what's amusing is you thinking your assumptions are not only correct but undeniably so

Cutting out all of the relevant comments that make up the backing for someone's opinion is a pathetic ploy usually used by people who make claims but seek to distance themselves from debate about them , probably because they would struggle to do so and/or reveal their ignorance on a subject

So far apart from drive by slurs and duck out of debate posts you have offered nothing of any real substance

 

[Divine_Wind]

Nope, what's amusing is you thinking your assumptions are not only correct but undeniably so...

Disagreed on your assumptions, but you are free to explore the world on your own.

 

[oneworld2]

Post number?

22 then again in post 40 asking you to concentrate ( what a waste of time that was lol )

Lets just stop this bull**** right here and now...

The target and intent is EXACTLY what defines TERRORIST attacks....

ter·ror·ism
/ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

The target of Hamas has been historically CIVILIANS. Note the definition... "especially against civilians"

That they occasionally get the balls to kidnap an IDF member remember that the intent of doing so is not military gain but some sort of concession from the Israelis.... Note the "in the pursuit of political aims."

So the tunnels are a clear and present danger. For terror acts.

You never answered about the construction materials.

Obviously nuanced debate and comprehension is a bridge too far for you. If you haven't sussed out the difference by now, even after I walked you through it in post 40 , there is no hope.

 

[Fledermaus]

22 then again in post 40 asking you to concentrate ( what a waste of time that was lol )

Obviously nuanced debate and comprehension is a bridge too far for you. If you haven't sussed out the difference by now, even after I walked you through it in post 40 , there is no hope.

The waste of time was perhaps me trying to get a straight answer from you.

Your post #20 was incorrect. Your statement "IDF attacks that are aimed , allegedly , at targeting Hamas combatants likewise pose an understandable and real danger to the lives of the civilian population of Gaza could be deemed as terror attacks if they , as they do , engender fear of death or injury to them too. In fact the numbers killed every time serve to completely validate those fears" shows complete and I suspect intentional ignorance of the differences between war and terrorism.

ter·ror·ism
/ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Since the target of the IDF are the terrorists attacking Israeli citizens and the goal is to eradicate said threat that is war. Not a mythical "terror war" as you try to twist it.

What is the intent? What is the target?

Spin a thousand more times and you will still be wrong.

 

[oneworld2]

Disagreed on your assumptions, but you are free to explore the world on your own.

Well exploring the world with you is just not going to be of profit to anyone imo

You jumped in with silly accusations in a bid to slur but don't want to actually debate anything. I gave you many good reasons why I rejected your ridiculous assertion that its only the " antisemites from outside " that are stopping a peaceful resolution of the conflict. Your response on it ? Nil

I gave you some examples of how we can see how the American mind IE public perception is occupied which translates as indoctrinated into viewing the conflict from a strongly pro Israel bias and would have given you the relevant links to studies on the subject which confirm that and explain how it plays out. You didn't respond

Notice a pattern developing here ?

Your charge that people who gravitate to politics are brought their by their hatred. Is everybody here brought to the forum through their hatred ? Really? Even you ? lol

Your assumptions and positions are , tbh , imo ridiculous and your absolute refusal to debate anything about them a sure sign that you actually don't seem confident in being able to back them

Be smug by all means but you don't pull the wool over my eyes , be sure about that

 

[oneworld2]

The waste of time was perhaps me trying to get a straight answer from you.

Nope , it was definitely a result of your lack of ability/appreciation/understanding of nuanced discussion. You had a certain view and when offered a slightly different option/context couldn't step up to the plate

 

[Divine_Wind]

Well exploring the world with you is just not going to be of profit to anyone imo...

Then ignore me and run around on you own.

Your charge that people who gravitate to politics are brought their by their hatred....

You obviously did not read or understand my post. No matter. It's well above HS level.

 

[Fledermaus]

Nope , it was definitely a result of your lack of ability/appreciation/understanding of nuanced discussion. You had a certain view and when offered a slightly different option/context couldn't step up to the plate

"Nuanced discussion" must mean to you ignoring the definition of terrorism and substituting a bunch of BS.

Your post #20 was incorrect. Your statement "IDF attacks that are aimed , allegedly , at targeting Hamas combatants likewise pose an understandable and real danger to the lives of the civilian population of Gaza could be deemed as terror attacks if they , as they do , engender fear of death or injury to them too. In fact the numbers killed every time serve to completely validate those fears" shows complete and I suspect intentional ignorance of the differences between war and terrorism.

Since the target of the IDF are the terrorists attacking Israeli citizens and the goal is to eradicate said threat that is war. Not a mythical "terror war" as you try to twist it.

What is the intent? What is the target?

 

[Fledermaus]

Then ignore me and run around on you own.

You obviously did not read or understand my post. No matter. It's well above HS level.

I suspect he both read and understood the general gist of your post.

The problem is he will also completely ignore what you post.