Teens and protests

[radcen]

I'm not saying that teenagers under 18 can't have an opinion on the issue. My point was that if we are going to use the fact that the brain is not fully developed during teenage years as an excuse to ignore a teenager's opinions it seems equally logical to conclude that they shouldn't be able to own guns or even operate a vehicle. I think that the teenage activists we are seeing have completely valid opinions given their personal experiences.

Technically, most of those demonstrating don't have these experiences, either.

 

[MrPeanut]

Technically, most of those demonstrating don't have these experiences, either.

Not direct experience, but they do have indirect experience. School shooting after school shooting is bound to have a psychological effect on today's school kids. I never even gave it a thought when I was in school.

 

[radcen]

You tell me how many kids have to die before they earn the right to speak and be heard, Ap. Explain to me how it isn't enough yet. That's the price I'm saying they've paid.

I agree with you, by the way...I do think their outrage is misguided...not because of where it lays the blame, but because doing so is not a solution. But when we say, as so many have, that they shouldn't even be listened to in the first place, I think that's wrong, even if they are misguided. Lots of people are misguided on this topic at the moment, on all sides of the debate. If that's the benchmark, we should all STFU. Or, we can listen to each other, like sane people, and have a conversation, and figure it out...not to win some stupid debate somewhere, but to help save the lives of children. That still matters, right?

I did use the word "listen" in my OP, and that can be taken literally or as a figure of speech. For anyone who took it literally, my apologies. That was not what I was trying to convey. There was absolutely no intent or desire to wholly disregard. They absolutely do deserve to speak, and to have people listen and hear what they're saying. And I have no intent to portray that nothing they say can be valid. It may very well be. No, my point was how much should we "listen" in the sense of putting stock in what they're proposing as solutions. Solutions that are possibly... probably, if we also discount their opinions on other issues due to their unfinished brain development... less fully thought out and run the risk of unintended negative consequences that we will regret later.

 

[radcen]

Not direct experience, but they do have indirect experience. School shooting after school shooting is bound to have a psychological effect on today's school kids. I never even gave it a thought when I was in school.

Same for adults, isn't it? Kids hardly have an exclusive.

 

[Moderate Right]

If teens have not yet fully developed brains, and lack the maturity and mental capacity to think and reason properly to a logical and rational conclusion... which is what we're told and have studies to back up... then why should we listen to them on these current protests and their call for gun control?

The question is somewhat Devil's Advocate, but not entirely. Fair is fair. Consistent is consistent. They're either worthy of inclusion in debate on complex and sensitive topics, or they're not, but cherry-picking based on whether they're saying the same thing as you isn't logical or rational in itself.

What's that? You say this is different? No, it's not different. The question, or is it the answer, is just inconvenient.

They make the false assumption that if we had gun control then the Florida massacre and others would have never happened. It's nice to think that way but it's not realistic. If we ever want to realistically fix this problem then we need to think of realistic solutions. I want to know why both teens and their parents aren't totally pissed off at both the FBI and Florida law enforcement or other authorities who just ignored the many red flags Cruz presented. That's what amazes me. We let these people totally off the hook and blame the guns, Trump, politicians, and the NRA.

 

[MrPeanut]

Same for adults, isn't it? Kids hardly have an exclusive.

Why would it be the same for adults?

 

[Lursa]

If teens have not yet fully developed brains, and lack the maturity and mental capacity to think and reason properly to a logical and rational conclusion... which is what we're told and have studies to back up... then why should we listen to them on these current protests and their call for gun control?

The question is somewhat Devil's Advocate, but not entirely. Fair is fair. Consistent is consistent. They're either worthy of inclusion in debate on complex and sensitive topics, or they're not, but cherry-picking based on whether they're saying the same thing as you isn't logical or rational in itself.

What's that? You say this is different? No, it's not different. The question, or is it the answer, is just inconvenient.

Nothing wrong with listening to them. I think it's counter-productive for them to believe their side, their feelings, are not considered.

And perhaps they've been protected from some information. Perhaps they dont know the constraints and protections the Constitution provides. It's unlikely most are well-informed on gun rights issues (because that seems to be their focus) or the difficulties in dealing with mental illness.

It's an opportunity to educate them.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I have no reason to criticize these kids with their protest, I say let it continue. They will one day be voting.

 

[Hawkeye10]

They are being assaulted by the generations that came before, the nation we are leaving them is a bankrupt wreck, mismanaged for as long as anyone can remember....if they are not upset then they they are chumps.....they should be marching.

But we must remember that this the most unprepared for life generation that has ever hit America, because they were raised so poorly, they are stunningly ignorant.

 

[radcen]

Go grab the valedictorian of any high school in the country and you can be almost certain that they are more mature and would be more responsible of a person than our current president who can't even be bothered to read the daily PDB. People should be listened to and words should be considered on their merit. If a kid says something profound or even just logical, I will listen. If an adult says something nonsensical then I will toss it aside and ignore it.

Probably an equal number have eaten a laundry soap pod in the last year, too. Be careful when using narrow examples.

But anyway, If I understand you correctly, I will never... ever... see you bring up the studies that say that teen brains aren't fully developed until sometime in the early to mid 20s, when discussion the weight of their opinions, right?

Right?

One example: Teen Brain: Behavior, Problem Solving, and Decision Making

 

[poweRob]

If teens have not yet fully developed brains, and lack the maturity and mental capacity to think and reason properly to a logical and rational conclusion... which is what we're told and have studies to back up... then why should we listen to them on these current protests and their call for gun control?

The question is somewhat Devil's Advocate, but not entirely. Fair is fair. Consistent is consistent. They're either worthy of inclusion in debate on complex and sensitive topics, or they're not, but cherry-picking based on whether they're saying the same thing as you isn't logical or rational in itself.

What's that? You say this is different? No, it's not different. The question, or is it the answer, is just inconvenient.

Well it's bizzare if anyone thinks they aren't old enough to have an opinion on guns but are old enough to buy them.

 

[radcen]

Why would it be the same for adults?

Surely you're not suggesting that all mass shootings are school shootings.

 

[poweRob]

Probably an equal number have eaten a laundry soap pod in the last year, too. Be careful when using narrow examples.

But anyway, If I understand you correctly, I will never... ever... see you bring up the studies that say that teen brains aren't fully developed until sometime in the early to mid 20s, when discussion the weight of their opinions, right?

Right?

One example: Teen Brain: Behavior, Problem Solving, and Decision Making

And the generation before licked toads. This generation of ridiculous dumbasses on a dare are no different than any other generation's dumbasses on a dare.

 

[radcen]

And the generation before licked toads. This generation of ridiculous dumbasses on a dare are no different than any other generation's dumbasses on a dare.

Exactly my point. Young brains are more prone to not think things through.

There's no guarantee for adults either, of course, but the percentages do adjust.

 

[MrPeanut]

Surely you're not suggesting that all mass shootings are school shootings.

I never suggested that. If there was a strong trend of shootings at wherever the adults we are talking about work than I guess they would be similar.

 

[radcen]

I never suggested that. If there was a strong trend of shootings at wherever the adults we are talking about work than I guess they would be similar.

You don't think the Florida shooting being the current example doesn't have anything to do with that?

So tell me, what was the talk around your water cooler the week of October 2, 2017?

Hint: That was the week after the Las Vegas shooting.

 

[MrPeanut]

You don't think the Florida shooting being the current example doesn't have anything to do with that?

So tell me, what was the talk around your water cooler the week of October 2, 2017?

Hint: That was the week after the Las Vegas shooting.

Kids go to school 5 days a week, and usually 8 hours a day. Of course whenever any shooting occurs it is a big deal, but I'm not scared of going to work. If I worked at music festivals, and these types of shootings happened semi regularly, I'm sure I would be scared.

 

[Parrish]

Perhaps, but those that they seek to disarm (to keep themselves a bit safer?) are not inside government facilities with publicly funded security. While it is true that my home is not a good mass shooter target it would be a much more attractive crime target if I was not legally able to be armed.

Do you have a sign posted stating that you are armed and you're willing to use it against any and all?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Do you have a sign posted stating that you are armed and you're willing to use it against any and all?

Nope, that would be unwise.

 

[radcen]

Kids go to school 5 days a week, and usually 8 hours a day. Of course whenever any shooting occurs it is a big deal, but I'm not scared of going to work. If I worked at music festivals, and these types of shootings happened semi regularly, I'm sure I would be scared.

Sure. Exactly my point. Statistically, shootings at school/work aren't significantly different, if different at all*. But kids are easily influenced and fed by fear, because they haven't fully developed the capability to think things through and dismiss the hyperbole from the true threats. You, as an adult, have. You are able to see the lack of immediate danger whereas they are more prone to fall prey to sensationalism.

Don't forget that phrases such as "going postal" were coined from real-life events long before schools became a target, yet adults were able to keep things in perspective.

*-ETA: All workplace multiple shootings vs all school multiple shootings.

 

[MACS-24]

Who cares how old she is?

How about checking her immigration status?

"Don't touch my second A, but screw your forth" eh?

 

[Cardinal]

If teens have not yet fully developed brains, and lack the maturity and mental capacity to think and reason properly to a logical and rational conclusion... which is what we're told and have studies to back up... then why should we listen to them on these current protests and their call for gun control?

The question is somewhat Devil's Advocate, but not entirely. Fair is fair. Consistent is consistent. They're either worthy of inclusion in debate on complex and sensitive topics, or they're not, but cherry-picking based on whether they're saying the same thing as you isn't logical or rational in itself.

What's that? You say this is different? No, it's not different. The question, or is it the answer, is just inconvenient.

"Shut up" is an excellent message to send young people looking to be involved in politics. It brings me back to my first day of political science in high school. "There's just one thing you need to know," She said. "Shut up." That was the end of the class.

 

[MrPeanut]

Sure. Exactly my point. Statistically, shootings at school/work aren't significantly different, if different at all*. But kids are easily influenced and fed by fear, because they haven't fully developed the capability to think things through and dismiss the hyperbole from the true threats. You, as an adult, have. You are able to see the lack of immediate danger whereas they are more prone to fall prey to sensationalism.

Don't forget that phrases such as "going postal" were coined from real-life events long before schools became a target, yet adults were able to keep things in perspective.

*-ETA: All workplace multiple shootings vs all school multiple shootings.

I guess the way I'm looking at it is that school is a specific workplace. So for me I'm not really lumping all workplaces together. It would be more like working for the post office during the height of the violence. Many employees probably weren't scared, just like many students probably still aren't, but I understand why some would be. I think it's rational for them to have that idea in the back of their head.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Bilious Billo has joined the pile-on. The survivors complaining about being shot at should be ignored, because they're all too emotional from being shot at!

 

[Vox]

"Don't touch my second A, but screw your forth" eh?

I think you mean "Fourth."

Her name is probable cause.

Don't try to be a lawyer when you can't spell fourth.