Teaching cursive handwriting

[MaryP]

I think cursive is just as obsolete as driving a horse and buggy or having an "ice box" in your kitchen

So you've said. I disagree, as I've said.
Enough said.

 

[MaryP]

This reminds me.

View attachment 67343797

 

[Sagittarius83]

I guess that it’s important to be able to learn to read cursive

The dangerous thing is that cursive is the gateway to calligraphy which leads to illuminated manuscript which leads to monastic cloistering which leads right back to the medieval Western European Church.

Yes it all starts with learning that cursive capital Q. Next thing we know we are all doing Gregorian chants and wearing those burlap looking itchy robes and shaving the tops of our heads.

 

[MaryP]

I guess that it’s important to be able to learn to read cursive

The dangerous thing is that cursive is the gateway to calligraphy which leads to illuminated manuscript which leads to monastic cloistering which leads right back to the medieval Western European Church.

Yes it all starts with learning that cursive capital Q. Next thing we know we are all doing Gregorian chants and wearing those burlap looking itchy robes and shaving the tops of our heads.

 

[phoenix2020]

I am not opposed to it being included (hand coordination is never a bad thing...) but as far as required skills go, it should be supplanted by touch typing. I cannot overstate the degree to which touch typing directly translates to productivity and school/workplace success in today's world.

 

[beerftw]

I rarely type anything at work, almost everything is by hand on paper. I rarely use cursive but I can write in it and definately read it. I actually have graph paper and a school style notebook at work for writing things down and even drawing diagrams.

Funny one was an old 700r4, not original to the vehicle, so I had to rewire it for the lockup function and the brake switch interrupt to work. So I hand drew a wiring schematic on graph paper for the customer, in which he was confused in why I would do that, I explained one because if it went to another shop for any repair they would have to spend extra time reverse engineering how I wired it making repairs simple. The big one that got him though is I said also it only took 5 minutes to draw up the wiring diagram with a ruler and colored pencils, vs vastly longer using computer software to do the same.

Also I can not understand the whole push for tablets, cursive is a quick way to write as it connects letters in a word through lines instead of spacing and repositioning, typing can be efficient but this whole tablet thing is annoying, it seems like typing things out on a tablet touchscreen is vastly less productive than simple handwriting.

 

[beerftw]

I have always printed. But that is neither here nor there.

I think cursive is just as obsolete as driving a horse and buggy or having an "ice box" in your kitchen.

When I was a kid every town still had an ice house that delivered ice.

Not a sustainable business these days.

Teachers are expected to cover innumerable "standards" each year and have 180 school days to do it.

Wasting time on something that is no longer a "standard" means neglecting something that is.

If people want to learn cursive or calligraphy they can take an elective.

Cursive is not obsolete like anything you listed, cursive is a form of written language, written languages going back thousands of years have formed the entire basis of society. Written language could even be much older than know however sumerian is the oldest surviving written language.

Whether you want to admit it or not a piece of paper can last over 100 years with modern paper, old hemp and cotton rag paper can last hundreds of years, parchment and papyrus can last thousands of years if stored right, but hard drives and solid state drives will not. Have you not noticed how nearly every nation on earth not only has their most important documents hand written, but also on paper like animal skin parchment cotton rag paper? There is a reason for this, written language is designed to last for the ages and important documents to be preserved for as long as possible.

Written languages are the basis of all society, removing those removes the core of what made society as it is.

 

[VanceMack]

Should kids still be taught to write using cursive handwriting? Please vote in the poll and leave your comment as well!

Wow. My initial response was why YES of COURSE they should continue teaching it...but frankly...I cant think of a really good reason why other than 'why not'? And I still want to say YES!!! But...why?

I agree that being able to read in cursive will allow people to read for themselves individual manuscripts from historical figures...but if that is something that people really value surely they could pick that up as an elective in say Jr High or High School.

Maybe its just the thought of the traditional values of education...and it feels like just another erosion at a time when so many schools have just outright failed. Maybe teaching cursive also teaches an element of discipline that can be beneficial in other areas of study. Ive often thought in the age of computers why arent we doing a better job of teaching calculator functions?

Josie...that's actually a really good question.

 

[Court Jester]

I was with you until this. It's not true. My granddaughter's very white suburban school stopped teaching cursive over ten years ago. It's not about race.
Thank goodness my son taught her. I don't have to print the note on her birthday card as if she were in 2nd grade.

I didn't say that it was only Black schools that stopped teaching cursive. My point is that public schools are scrapping all kinds of traditional education in order to score better on national tests. It is the Black and Hispanic students doing much worse than Asian and White students. So, in and effort to have better testing, getting rid of subjects which those demographics do poorly at, is a lazy way to boost other test results.

It's like doing away with math. If students are failing in math, because they are taking math, then their overall GPA goes up, right?

My cousin retired from a large urban school district, she was an English teacher. She said by the end of career it was difficult to teach any kids because it was mainly Black students who were disrupting classroom instruction, and due to new laws in her state (California) which prohibit expelling kids simply for rude or disruptive behavior, all of the other students end up paying the price for that.

By her last year she was instructed that she (an ENGLISH teacher) could not mark down a student's grade on a report for spelling or grammar errors. She was instructed to "grade on what the student was attempting to say, even when it was done incorrectly".

Lowest common denominator.

 

[Court Jester]

You don't see cursive around either.

I see it a lot.

How old are you, just curious? Because cursive is still mainly used by people my age. True, people don't mail letters as much, but birthday cards, invitations, thank you notes; I see a lot of cursive.

If I have to jot out a note to my wife or anyone, I write in cursive. So, maybe that is the difference between us. You probably send a text, right? I don't even own a smart phone.

No one writes with quill pens anymore.

Poor analogy. Nobody wipes their ass with corn cobs either.

Knowing how to type on a keyboard, and print with a ball point, is what is necessary these days.......not driving a horse and buggy or writing with a quill pen.

LOL! Very few young people actually know how to properly type on a keyboard. I'm talking QUERTY style typing, where you don't need to look down at the keyboard.

You want to hear something interesting? I still use a typewriter to write letters sometimes. I enjoy it, and do it for fun. I've heard that the actor Tom Hanks is the same way. Nothing sounds sweeter than the sound of typewriter keys clacking away.

 

[MaryP]

I didn't say that it was only Black schools that stopped teaching cursive. My point is that public schools are scrapping all kinds of traditional education in order to score better on national tests. It is the Black and Hispanic students doing much worse than Asian and White students. So, in and effort to have better testing, getting rid of subjects which those demographics do poorly at, is a lazy way to boost other test results.

It's like doing away with math. If students are failing in math, because they are taking math, then their overall GPA goes up, right?

My cousin retired from a large urban school district, she was an English teacher. She said by the end of career it was difficult to teach any kids because it was mainly Black students who were disrupting classroom instruction, and due to new laws in her state (California) which prohibit expelling kids simply for rude or disruptive behavior, all of the other students end up paying the price for that.

By her last year she was instructed that she (an ENGLISH teacher) could not mark down a student's grade on a report for spelling or grammar errors. She was instructed to "grade on what the student was attempting to say, even when it was done incorrectly".

Lowest common denominator.

Has nothing to do with cursive.

 

[Felis Leo]

Cursive is obsolete in the age of digital communication.

Isn't handwriting in general "obsolete"? Why teach anything other than how to type?

 

[Felis Leo]

Why does how your letters are formed make a difference? Why is cursive superior to print in your mind?

Out of curiosity, why do you have such contempt for cursive writing and the idea of wanting cursive to be taught, Josie? It seems to be a real bugbear of yours.

 

[phoenix2020]

Isn't handwriting in general "obsolete"? Why teach anything other than how to type?

Typing at a basic competency is about 3x faster than handwriting, and at a high competency about double that, so touch typing should be emphasized. I don't think that should be to the total exclusion of cursive, which sounds like a great extracurricular. Joe will take soccer practice, Jane will learn violin and Jimmy can work on his cursive handwriting.

 

[Felis Leo]

Should kids still be taught to write using cursive handwriting? Please vote in the poll and leave your comment as well!

Yes, because I think schools exist not merely to make children productive, obedient interchangeable cogs in our market economy, but to furnish children's minds with beauty.

 

[Josie]

Out of curiosity, why do you have such contempt for cursive writing and the idea of wanting cursive to be taught, Josie? It seems to be a real bugbear of yours.

I don't have contempt for teaching it. I think it's fine to teach it.

 

[Josie]

Isn't handwriting in general "obsolete"? Why teach anything other than how to type?

No, it's not obsolete because lots of schoolwork requires handwriting - especially in the lower grades. It's also a great way to strengthen your hand muscles and work on your fine motor skills.

 

[Felis Leo]

Typing at a basic competency is about 3x faster than handwriting, and at a high competency about double that, so touch typing should be emphasized. I don't think that should be to the total exclusion of cursive, which sounds like a great extracurricular. Joe will take soccer practice, Jane will learn violin and Jimmy can work on his cursive handwriting.

That is an interesting point you raise, phoenix2020. But why do we want children to learn to type three times faster than they write? Not high schoolers graduating and going to college or into the workforce mind you, but elementary school children learning to type as though they are going to be working in a 1960s-style secretarial pool? Does typing three times fast as they can write mean they are thinking three times faster and analyzing and processing information three times faster?

 

[phoenix2020]

That is an interesting point you raise, phoenix2020. But why do we want children to learn to type three times faster than they write? Not high schoolers graduating and going to college or into the workforce mind you, but elementary school children learning to type as though they are going to be working in a 1960s-style secretarial pool? Does typing three times fast as they can write mean they are thinking three times faster and analyzing and processing information three times faster?

I would doubt it translates into a directly proportional improvement in information processing, however it probably is a moderate accelerant when consuming, analyzing and disseminating information. That being said, this is only a hypothesis and something I should probably do some more homework on

 

[Crosscheck]

Tough question Josie.

I never use cursive except for my signature.
When I do write something for someone I want them to be able correctly read what I meant.
When I see cursive handwriting it is often very hard to make out some words.

But I also took Calculus I and II and not a day goes by that, well you know.

 

[Josie]

That is an interesting point you raise, phoenix2020. But why do we want children to learn to type three times faster than they write? Not high schoolers graduating and going to college or into the workforce mind you, but elementary school children learning to type as though they are going to be working in a 1960s-style secretarial pool? Does typing three times fast as they can write mean they are thinking three times faster and analyzing and processing information three times faster?

I'm fairly sure elementary kids aren't going to type 3x faster than they can write. Have you ever seen the average 3rd grader try to type? It takes 87 minutes for some to even put a password in. LOL! Anyway, for elementary kids, they most likely have spent days handwriting notes and using graphic organizers (also handwritten) before starting to write their essay or story. So most of the thinking and processing has already been done - they just have to put it all together when typing.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Cursive is not obsolete like anything you listed, cursive is a form of written language, written languages going back thousands of years have formed the entire basis of society. Written language could even be much older than know however sumerian is the oldest surviving written language.

Whether you want to admit it or not a piece of paper can last over 100 years with modern paper, old hemp and cotton rag paper can last hundreds of years, parchment and papyrus can last thousands of years if stored right, but hard drives and solid state drives will not. Have you not noticed how nearly every nation on earth not only has their most important documents hand written, but also on paper like animal skin parchment cotton rag paper? There is a reason for this, written language is designed to last for the ages and important documents to be preserved for as long as possible.

Written languages are the basis of all society, removing those removes the core of what made society as it is.

Lol.

Wow that was weird.

Did I say written languages were obsolete?

Nope. Not even close. What I did say was that writing in cursive is obsolete in an age of digital communication.

We still use written language, there is just no value in writing it in cursive.

 

[Court Jester]

I agree that being able to read in cursive will allow people to read for themselves individual manuscripts from historical figures...but if that is something that people really value surely they could pick that up as an elective in say Jr High or High School.

I'm of the opinion that learning cursive really isn't all that hard, and besides, what harm is there in aquirring more skill sets than fewer? I believe they should also still teach typing in high school, not to mention driver's education....and making kids run a mile in 6 minutes or less in PE class wouldn't kill them either.

Maybe its just the thought of the traditional values of education...and it feels like just another erosion at a time when so many schools have just outright failed. Maybe teaching cursive also teaches an element of discipline that can be beneficial in other areas of study. Ive often thought in the age of computers why arent we doing a better job of teaching calculator functions?

This is exactly a good reason. Being able to master a subject, even one you may never use much or at all later in life is a good thing to have under your belt. All this is about are lackluster school boards with other agenda priorities, and teachers unions happy to have teacher doing less for the same or more money.

Cursive is not hard to teach or to learn, not for normal intelligent children, mostly mastered by kids under age 9.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Should we also teach Roman numerals?

 

[Felis Leo]

Should we also teach Roman numerals?

Heck yes. It shouldn't take more than an afternoon.