Tax and Spend and Spend and Spend some more

[Tbird19482]

That "notional" emergency has killed over 500,000 Americans, including people I know. Stop lying about COVID.



I've heard that line since the 80s, and the massive disaster predicted by conservatives keeps Not Happening.

Not only does it not happen, but they actually make the situation far worse. Bush 43 and Trump, in particular, slashed taxes and went on spending sprees, putting the US into the red -- and that was before their respective crises.

As to the 1% national sales tax? Aside from the fact that sales taxes are regressive (i.e. they hit the poor much harder than the wealthy, and which of those two groups can afford it less?), it is spitting in the wind.

Oh, and feel free to identify what we should spend less on. Be specific. Then figure out what percentage of federal spending your choices will actually reduce. Hint: You'll need to cut federal spending by 20%. Keep in mind that Social Security, paying interest on the debt, defense, Medicare and Medicaid are 75% of all spending.

as I said somebody would bit-- because a sales tax is regressive but I have to ask didn't everybody get some benefit from running up the debt, and seeing everybody benefited from it everybody should help pay it off.
SS is funded by payroll ( FICA ) taxes and still holds its own it won't in a few years that is where we have to start paying back the ( I believe it is ) 2,7 Trillion we took from it.
medicare and medicaid also have a special tax for them.
and yes they are mandatory spending it is things that are full of waste and you can't tell us the Fed. gov. isn't full of waste
and there are projects that we need that also put people to work who pay a good amount of taxes , we could use a lot of road and bridge repair.
and I agree we will have to raise taxes , and we need to get a new tax code where large Corps. that are making millions if not Billions in US profits pay their fair share of fed. income taxes
it is a shame that there are people that have worked all their lives finally got to retire are on SS and a small retirement that are paying more Federal income taxes then these large corps.
These large corps use programs that the FIT funds so they should help pay for those programs
Have a nice night

 

[MTAtech]

as I said somebody would bit-- because a sales tax is regressive but I have to ask didn't everybody get some benefit from running up the debt, and seeing everybody benefited from it everybody should help pay it off.
SS is funded by payroll ( FICA ) taxes and still holds its own it won't in a few years that is where we have to start paying back the ( I believe it is ) 2,7 Trillion we took from it.
medicare and medicaid also have a special tax for them.
and yes they are mandatory spending it is things that are full of waste and you can't tell us the Fed. gov. isn't full of waste
and there are projects that we need that also put people to work who pay a good amount of taxes , we could use a lot of road and bridge repair.
and I agree we will have to raise taxes , and we need to get a new tax code where large Corps. that are making millions if not Billions in US profits pay their fair share of fed. income taxes
it is a shame that there are people that have worked all their lives finally got to retire are on SS and a small retirement that are paying more Federal income taxes then these large corps.
These large corps use programs that the FIT funds so they should help pay for those programs
Have a nice night

I think you bought into the conservative talking point, "we have a spending problem, not a taxing problem." No, we have a taxing problem. The pols that complain about the debt (only when Democrats are in control) are the same ones that slash taxes.

 

[Tbird19482]

I think you bought into the conservative talking point, "we have a spending problem, not a taxing problem." No, we have a taxing problem. The pols that complain about the debt (only when Democrats are in control) are the same ones that slash taxes.

OH I agree we need to redo our tax system and raise taxes to a reasonable percentage right now with large corps making millions / billions and not paying a cent in US income tax is unfair.
Like I said when people that workd all their lives and retired on a small retirement and SS pay more then they do on millions in US profits is not right.
Have a nice day

 

[Tbird19482]

I think you bought into the conservative talking point, "we have a spending problem, not a taxing problem." No, we have a taxing problem. The pols that complain about the debt (only when Democrats are in control) are the same ones that slash taxes.

And one more thing you are right they only seem to cry about the debt going up when I dem. is in office
Reagan almost tripled the debt and not a word about it , Bush II over doubled it not a word about it Obama took it up something like the high 60% / low 70% level and all kinds of lies started saying he doubled it.
then Trump did a number on it in 4 years not a word and now Biden is in and it is important to them again
they are a bunch of hypocrites
Have a nice day

 

[Vadinho]

The borrowing from China meme has to end folks. Here is how it works. China sells us stuff and we pay them in dollars. They use those dollars to pay for stuff they buy from us or others across the world. They have plenty of dollars left over and search for a safe place to park them. They park them in Tbills which they pay for in those dollars. We give them a note and interest to get the dollars back from them. Rinse and repeat, over and over again.

 

[JasperL]

That is not in keeping with the concept (spirit?) of taxing only those making $400K or more and you know it.

It is actually within the spirit. The idea isn't to split the income normally reported to get under what is a campaign promise, to then prove the campaign promise is wrong or a lie.
Married people file jointly. That's what they do, about 99% of the time in my experience. I've filed exactly ONE return married filing separately (that I can recall, total might be 3 or 4 or 5 over decades...), and the husband was a really rich guy whose third or fourth wife was also wealthy and for practical reasons they needed their financial lives kept totally separate. There are a number of provisions in the code to encourage joint filing, or to take away any advantage of splitting income, to try to get around some limit. Any promise about income thresholds and who might see tax increases assumes that 99%, not the 1% who file married filing separately.

 

[MTAtech]

The borrowing from China meme has to end folks. Here is how it works. China sells us stuff and we pay them in dollars. They use those dollars to pay for stuff they buy from us or others across the world. They have plenty of dollars left over and search for a safe place to park them. They park them in Tbills which they pay for in those dollars. We give them a note and interest to get the dollars back from them. Rinse and repeat, over and over again.

Scare stories about our supposed financial dependence on China just keep shambling along, propounded by people who don’t even realize that there are other views, let alone that they’re talking nonsense.

We have to remember that 60% of our debt is held by Americans.

 

[Taylor]

You sure about that?

255 million adults, average new car loan is $30k = $7.6 trillion. It took an epic international disaster, which has already killed over 500,000 Americans, to get the federal government to spend that kind of money. So, no. Not "easy."

I didn't say it was an easy sell - quite the opposite.

You don't seem to really understand fiscal policy at all. When the federal government spends $1.4 trillion on a stimulus package, it isn't "draining" anyone's "nest egg."

Inflation constantly drains your savings. Now, you can argue about how much that's going to be, but the idea that you can print endless amounts of money and never have to pay for it is silly.

 

[rickc]

And one more thing you are right they only seem to cry about the debt going up when I dem. is in office
Reagan almost tripled the debt and not a word about it , Bush II over doubled it not a word about it Obama took it up something like the high 60% / low 70% level and all kinds of lies started saying he doubled it.
then Trump did a number on it in 4 years not a word and now Biden is in and it is important to them again
they are a bunch of hypocrites
Have a nice day

 

[Tbird19482]

View attachment 67323619

View attachment 67323620

So can you tell us what your point is ?
Here is just one place telling us the percent the debt went up under what President

US Debt by President | Chart & Per President Deficit | Self.

Here’s how much each President has contributed to National Debt, including decisions, events and statistics.

www.self.inc

Back to Data & Guides >
US Debt By President


History of the U.S. Debt by President Total Debt Change Per President [6]

PRESIDENT	YEAR	Debt At Start ($)	Debt When Leaving Office ($)	Debt Change Percentage	Total Debt Change ($)
Donald J. Trump	2017–present	$20,244,900,016,053.50	$27,052,190,118,519.27	33.62%	$6,807,290,102,465.77
Barack Obama	2009–2017	$11,909,829,003,511.70	$20,244,900,016,053.50	69.98%	$8,335,071,012,541.80
George W. Bush	2001–2009	$5,807,463,412,200.06	$11,909,829,003,511.70	105.08%	$6,102,365,591,311.64
William J. Clinton	1993–2001	$4,411,488,883,139.38	$5,807,463,412,200.06	31.64%	$1,395,974,529,060.68
George H. W. Bush	1989–1993	$2,857,430,960,187.32	$4,411,488,883,139.38	54.39%	$1,554,057,922,952.06
Ronald Reagan	1981–1989	$997,855,000,000.00	$2,857,430,960,187.32	186.36%	$1,859,575,960,187.32

And as you can see the ONLY presidents that doubled and almost tripled it in the last 50 years were Republicans

U.S. National Debt by President

Check out how the national debt has increased by year and president. Depending on how you measure it, the answers may differ.

www.thebalance.com

History of the United States public debt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

as I said the Only Presidents to double or almost triple the debt in the last 50 years were Republicans
have a nice day

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

We will soon see if Biden (actually the congressional demorats) was serious about his increased taxation being limited to those making $400K and up. Obviously, that is unlikely unless the taxation of pass-through business rates (LLC’s and such) are not made progressive in the process. Beware of new (or expanded) federal taxes such as carbon taxes, vehicle mileage taxes and/or increased excise tax rates which do not apply only to “the rich”.

wot? taxes only bad when used for socialist programs, right? like roads, postal service, policing, infastructure, and MILITARY? damn D's wanna raise taxes on the entitled, JAIL THEM ALL.

 

[noonereal]

Biden is considering a major federal tax increase for the first time in nearly 30 years, report says

How can anyone not love this guy?

An adult in the white house such a contrast from the last 4 years

 

[Tbird19482]

View attachment 67323619

View attachment 67323620

and If you look at this chart you will see that Reagan raised it almost 6 times what Carter did
and Bush I raised it a lot more the Clinton did about 150 Billion more and Bush II raised it about 4 times what Clinton did
and Trump raised about 1.5 Trillion less then Obama did and Obama did his in 8 years and Trump did his in 4years
yes the Republicans have been running the debt up a lot more then the Dems in the last 50 years

US Debt by President | Chart & Per President Deficit | Self.

Here’s how much each President has contributed to National Debt, including decisions, events and statistics.

www.self.inc

Have a nice afternoon

 

[Port & Starboard]

Everybody remember months ago when Trump and the Republicans did the same thing and conservatives cheered? Stop pretending you're suddenly fiscal conservatives again after 4 years of silence.

You never were at all, so who the hell are you to be whining?

 

[Logophile]

Did you know that the almost 20-year global war on terror is being financed through debt; tens of trillions of dollars borrowed from China?

Yes, I do. And it's a bizarre policy. These non declared wars are imbecilic. We've also borrowed heavily from Brazil. It's immaterial to my way of thinking. Right now, the liberal press is bending over backward to ward off inflation fears. Why are they doing that?? Why bring it at all?? Well, because it's looming. And the threat of raising rates is there, right out of Yellen's mouth. Thanks!!!

 

[rickc]

Yes, I do. And it's a bizarre policy. These non declared wars are imbecilic. We've also borrowed heavily from Brazil. It's immaterial to my way of thinking. Right now, the liberal press is bending over backward to ward off inflation fears. Why are they doing that?? Why bring it at all?? Well, because it's looming. And the threat of raising rates is there, right out of Yellen's mouth. Thanks!!!

Well we haven't reached the feds target inflation rate in a couple of decades. Inflation is a sign of a growing economy. As long as it doesn't get out of hand like the 1970's it's not a bad thing.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

You never were at all, so who the hell are you to be whining?

I call out lying hypocrites when and where I see them. 4 years we heard nothing from fiscal conservatives as Republicans skyrocketed the deficit and national debt. You don't get to pretend to care now.

 

[rickc]

 

[rocket88]

It's not only the tax hike, but it's also another major spending spree. If it means more checks, it's going alter how Americans perceive work or even its daily necessity. And why does Biden think - or anybody for that matter - that the wealthy or the job makers don't have options elsewhere?? They do. They seriously do internationally. For example, Musk moved over excessive regulation to Texas. But if he can't escape excessive regulation and excessive taxation there, he has welcoming arms all over the globe. Thanks!!

Yeah, rememberthe 1950s when the wealthy paid taxes and the economy collapsed? No? Oh right, that isn't what happened.

 

[Port & Starboard]

I call out lying hypocrites when and where I see them. 4 years we heard nothing from fiscal conservatives as Republicans skyrocketed the deficit and national debt. You don't get to pretend to care now.

LOL

Go ahead and prove that I never said anything. Put your money where your mouth is for once.

 

[reflechissez]

No, the lesson is that a venture capitalist is risking his own money, whereas the corrupt government is playing with taxpayer dollars. The government agents who lost 500 million dollars of taxpayer money with Solyndra suffered nothing for it.

That's the problem.

Venture capitalists are usually investing someone else's money.

 

[Logophile]

Yeah, rememberthe 1950s when the wealthy paid taxes and the economy collapsed? No? Oh right, that isn't what happened.

We are so far removed from the 1950s in terms of circumstance - particularly international trade - and attitude that I don't think it's relevant to this discussion. Thanks!!

 

[MTAtech]

We are so far removed from the 1950s in terms of circumstance - particularly international trade - and attitude that I don't think it's relevant to this discussion. Thanks!!

It is indeed relevant. The conservative argument is that high marginal tax rates hinder economic performance. Yet, we have had many periods of high marginal tax rates were economic growth was just fine.

But if the 50s is too far in the past, how about the 1990s? Bill Clinton introduced a very large tax increase. Newt Gingrich and other Republicans said it would cause a recession. It didn't and the following period was one of the largest expansions in the economy.

 

[Geoist]

We don't. Most economists agree that the latest giveaway was far too much.

Source?

 

[KLATTU]

The govt need to raise more tax revenue somehow.
Taxing the high income earners is the easiest way to do it.
End of story.

I just wish Democrats would knock off the dishonest "fair share", class warfare bullshit.