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For those of you suggesting it's always Excessive Force....
If we take the Tasers away from the LEO's you do realize that the only weapon they have capable of ranged submission of a subject becomes a firearm, right?
:lol: So before the introduction of tasers, the police would have shot the woman in the OP?
Would have..... Probably not.
SHOULD have..... Definitely.
I was raised that you did not ignore or disobey a Law Enforcement Officer... PERIOD. If you had a problem with them, you contacted the department AFTER the fact and filed a complaint; but you did what the officer told you to do at that moment.
When I was active, trust me...the baton hurts more and the pain can last for days....Police cannot have citizens routinely defying them...I know that sounds like we think were gods...but that has nothing to do with...we are sworn to protect and serve citizens and protect the peace...you cannot accomplish that with people routinely refusing to obey you
No, it has nothing to do with the few bully cops who beat people they've arrested, it has nothing to do with stories like this, it has nothing to do with actually crappy cops with crappy attitudes or with cops who don't do their jobs in minority neighborhoods or any of that. It's just about people who fight authority.
What a crock of ****.
The only argument you can make, which I agree with by the way, is that it's irrational to generalize about cops being all bad based on the few bad ones that ruin their name. However, you cannot argue that people have a problem with cops just because they "fight all authority" and not because they have legitimate reasons to dislike them based on their own experiences.
Would have..... Probably not.
SHOULD have..... Definitely.
I was raised that you did not ignore or disobey a Law Enforcement Officer... PERIOD. If you had a problem with them, you contacted the department AFTER the fact and filed a complaint; but you did what the officer told you to do at that moment.
This is one of those situations where I'm not sure there was a good answer. They probably shouldn't have used the taser on a pregnant woman who wasn't resisting them violently. Especially since they still ended up having to physically drag her out of the car. Then again, we have no idea what the woman would have done had she not been tased before being dragged out. Maybe she would have struggled harder, and getting into a physical struggle with a pregnant woman isn't a good idea either. I don't think this particular case is as bad as some I've heard. But in some cases I do think the police are resorting to using tasers too readily, simply out of laziness. And my other problem with taser use is that though they are marketed as non-lethal weapons, there are cases in which they can be lethal, and although those cases are very rare, there is generally no way of telling before using the taser whether it will kill the person it's being used on.
Great, but that doesn't justify your original comment nor does it really have much to do with it or my response. You said, "cops are people of many people's hatred because there are personalities out there who instinctively fight all authority, legit or not." That's an absolute statement which happens to be a crock of ****. If you want to say, "some people hate cops because they just don't like authority," then that is an accurate statement. However, your original comment is false and nothing you've said in this one justifies it.Well, you can say that, but I've been around enough retard anti-cop morons who have NOTHING good to say about any cop, ever. They're (the cops) always in the wrong, no matter what they do. This attitude doesn't come from a rational weighing of the pros and cons of police actions; it's a generalization based in a specific worldview, that authority is bad, no one has a right to tell me what to do, blah blah blah.
I'm not trying to discount real cases of police brutality, I've made my outrage known at what I consider excessive use of force. There are lot of rotten cops out there who need to be taken off the force.
But let's make a connection here; what drives some cops to be sadistic, power hungry abusers? What drive some people to hate all cops for no reason? It's based in personality, you're worldview. Some worldviews are insane.
Great, but that doesn't justify your original comment nor does it really have much to do with it or my response. You said, "cops are people of many people's hatred because there are personalities out there who instinctively fight all authority, legit or not." That's an absolute statement which happens to be a crock of ****. If you want to say, "some people hate cops because they just don't like authority," then that is an accurate statement. However, your original comment is false and nothing you've said in this one justifies it.
Sure, some people don't like cops because of that. And there are people who either were beaten or have friends who gotten were beaten by cops for no good reason or see stories like this or who live in neighborhoods where the cops don't do jack about violence or who know firsthand the consequences of dirty cops or who know cops spread hate about gay people by talking about disgusting sex clubs they broke up when they were on the force and so on.Alot of people dont like cops because they have alot of negative interaction with them...by breaking the law and being scumbags...They were always my favorite detractors and haters...
False choices.
These are basically your options: Yank her out and throw her to the ground; mace her; hit her with the baton; tase her.
The phrase "false choice" does not mean that the choices are illegitimate or "false" in and of themselves. It means that the choices presented leave out plausible alternatives. The choice you left out was removing her from the car physically without "throwing her to the ground" which they actually ended up doing and should have done initially instead of tasing her.If these:
... are "False choices", please enlighten me as to which choices were left out.
I'm willing to accept that there might have been a reasonable and legitimate choice I haven't listed; however, the choices that were listed were not "false". They are choices available to the LEO's on the scene, legitimate police actions to handle an uncooperative subject. Some may not like it, but that's the way it is.
If the Supreme Court argues that using a taser is excessive force, then tasers should no longer be used. Otherwise you'd be picking and choosing, discriminating, on who gets to be tased.
We also discriminate on who gets arrested: those accused of crimes, not every one. Congrats, you have made the most silly post in this whole thread.
Do you think it's fair that some should be subjected to excessive force and some shouldn't?
Because as the story in the OP seems to indicate, using a taser is excessive force.
Do you think it's fair that some should be subjected to excessive force and some shouldn't?
Because as the story in the OP seems to indicate, using a taser is excessive force.
If the Supreme Court argues that using a taser is excessive force, then tasers should no longer be used. Otherwise you'd be picking and choosing, discriminating, on who gets to be tased.
This article, "Taser Pain May Be Considered by Supreme Court as Excessive Force," made it seem that the Courts were considering whether or not taser pain [all taser pain?] would be considered excessive force. If that's not the case, alright.
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