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Yes, I think that the practice of tearing down statues has gone too far. Christopher Columbus? Thomas Jefferson? Really?
We are all victims of the culture of the times in which we are live, and that applies to the two listed above. It was expected to enslave and mistreat those natives that "civilized" people came across in the days of "discovering the world", and the ownership of slaves on the estates of the South was quite accepted among a large part of the populace in the late 18th century. That does not make it right, of course, but neither does it downgrade the accomplishments of sailing across an ocean to find a different continent, or being a prime mover in the development and inception of a new nation based on democratic principles. That is why the statues are there, and that is why they should be honored. Which is not to say that those actions that were wrong should not be pointed out. They should.
But what about the statues dedicated to the Confederacy. Were they not also victims of a "nation" and a culture dedicated to the maintenance and extension of the scourge of slavery. Indeed they were. Both the soldiers and the generals were fighting for "the honor of the nation". The difference, of course, is that those particular statues were erected specifically in order to honor the "nation" that went to war to preserve slavery, and that is quite different from finding a continent of which the European peoples of the time were unaware, or of starting a new democratic nation.
So each statue would have to be judged on its merits. Many want to take down statues because the person uttered some racist statements, but this was in an era when the n-word was quite accepted, even in polite society. It was during the apartheid era of the nation when blacks were simply treated as unimportant to the fabric of the nation. Those utterances were often made by people who did not even realize what they were saying and who were, indeed, victims of a CULTURE of racism in which the very great majority of the nation participated.
Again, this does not mean that we should not learn from the mistakes of the past and make every effort to change them for the positive, but I simply don't think that the people who lived in those times should have to shoulder all the blame for them.
Is being a victim of culture still a problem? Of course it is. We still have a culture of racism in which a great many, if not most, right-wingers and Republicans participate while seeing themselves as free of racism because that is what their FOX/Rush culture tells them. And we have a culture of Trumpism in which the "president" can do virtually anything he wants in the way of anti-democratic and personal corruption without the slightest bit of outrage from right-winger Republicans, and again the FOX/Rush/fundie culture tells them that's perfectly acceptable and even "patriotic".
Yes, Thomas Jefferson, really. He repeatedly raped a slave and then enslaved his own children. If I can't judge that just what the **** can I judge, ever?
Just one?
Care to elaborate?
Yes, Thomas Jefferson, really. He repeatedly raped a slave and then enslaved his own children. If I can't judge that just what the **** can I judge, ever?
Yes, I think that the practice of tearing down statues has gone too far. Christopher Columbus? Thomas Jefferson? Really?
We are all victims of the culture of the times in which we are live, and that applies to the two listed above. It was expected to enslave and mistreat those natives that "civilized" people came across in the days of "discovering the world", and the ownership of slaves on the estates of the South was quite accepted among a large part of the populace in the late 18th century. That does not make it right, of course, but neither does it downgrade the accomplishments of sailing across an ocean to find a different continent, or being a prime mover in the development and inception of a new nation based on democratic principles. That is why the statues are there, and that is why they should be honored. Which is not to say that those actions that were wrong should not be pointed out. They should.
But what about the statues dedicated to the Confederacy. Were they not also victims of a "nation" and a culture dedicated to the maintenance and extension of the scourge of slavery. Indeed they were. Both the soldiers and the generals were fighting for "the honor of the nation". The difference, of course, is that those particular statues were erected specifically in order to honor the "nation" that went to war to preserve slavery, and that is quite different from finding a continent of which the European peoples of the time were unaware, or of starting a new democratic nation.
So each statue would have to be judged on its merits. Many want to take down statues because the person uttered some racist statements, but this was in an era when the n-word was quite accepted, even in polite society. It was during the apartheid era of the nation when blacks were simply treated as unimportant to the fabric of the nation. Those utterances were often made by people who did not even realize what they were saying and who were, indeed, victims of a CULTURE of racism in which the very great majority of the nation participated.
Again, this does not mean that we should not learn from the mistakes of the past and make every effort to change them for the positive, but I simply don't think that the people who lived in those times should have to shoulder all the blame for them.
Is being a victim of culture still a problem? Of course it is. We still have a culture of racism in which a great many, if not most, right-wingers and Republicans participate while seeing themselves as free of racism because that is what their FOX/Rush culture tells them. And we have a culture of Trumpism in which the "president" can do virtually anything he wants in the way of anti-democratic and personal corruption without the slightest bit of outrage from right-winger Republicans, and again the FOX/Rush/fundie culture tells them that's perfectly acceptable and even "patriotic".
Wrong.
It wasn't illegal to have sex with your slaves.
Wrong.
It wasn't illegal to have sex with your slaves.
Illegality has nothing to do with it. It was a product of the scourge of slavery and that made it wrong.
Illegality has nothing to do with it. It was a product of the scourge of slavery and that made it wrong.
Wrong. I twas not rape.
Apparently you are letting yuremotions drive yoru position.So what was it really?
Did he seduce the slaves?
Did they seduce him?
God surely did.
Did he say, "Honey, I'm going to take you?"
Did she surrender? Was it Love? It was some love.
Did she have another husband?
Did she like being a slave concubine?
Think of how he's responsible for sex trafficking and his economic model of selling tobacco to finance the Revolution?
Apparently you are letting yuremotions drive yoru position.
It literally was not illegal.
As it was not illegal it was not rape.
You could not rape your property.
Your slaves were literally there to do with as you please.
Facts do not care about your feelings.
They're pleasing Muslims.
We shouldn't have these idols in our landscapes, just think what they do to Allah.
Christopher Columbus was a racist xenophobic slave running piece of ****... Jefferson? That might be going to far though...
I can tell you what it wasn't.So tell me, what was it?
Did they run off in the hay-barn a the hot of each-other and make passionate love?
Yes, “not illegal” is the canard that you right-wing racists are hiding behind in order to somehow justify what meets the definition of rape, whether it was supposedly “legal” or not. Shame on you, if you had any.
Apparently you are letting yuremotions drive yoru position.
It literally was not illegal.
As it was not illegal it was not rape.
You could not rape your property.
Your slaves were literally there to do with as you please.
Facts do not care about your feelings.
Yes, “not illegal” is the canard that you right-wing racists are hiding behind in order to somehow justify what meets the definition of rape, whether it was supposedly “legal” or not. Shame on you, if you had any.
He’s not justifying it he’s simply pointing out the issue with your terminology. Rape connotates an illegal act, similar to the difference between killing and murder.
Problem is both he and you are wrong. Rape connotes one person having sex with another through force or undue coercion, whether “illegal” or not. I have seen this excuse before. It had been spread around as a meme by the right-wing Republican racist community.
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