Taiwan in danger of Mainland takeover after US show of weakness in Afghanistan

[TearItAllDown]

Anyone who thinks the PRC doesn’t have massive issues with corruption is totally clueless. Unfortunately for you, the people of Taiwan have no interest living under a genocidal dictatorship.

No one said the CCP wasn't corrupt, but it certainly is not a genocidal dictatorship. Anyway, Taiwan has a very difficult choice ahead, either remain aligned with the US or abandon that sinking ship and join the rest of the world in more peaceful development. Note that the US has begun to abandon its allies and reduce its footprint in the rest of the world and turn inward toward its greatest threat: its population. And it is using the powers of the largest corporations to whip everyone in line. You all think the US is moving far left toward communism, but in fact it is the opposite, you are moving far right toward corporate fascism. What the rest of the world is worried about is what will the US then do after the transformation? That's what scares the world and Taiwan better pay attention.

 

[Tigerace117]

No one said the CCP wasn't corrupt, but it certainly is not a genocidal dictatorship. Anyway, Taiwan has a very difficult choice ahead, either remain aligned with the US or abandon that sinking ship and join the rest of the world in more peaceful development. Note that the US has begun to abandon its allies and reduce its footprint in the rest of the world and turn inward toward its greatest threat: its population. And it is using the powers of the largest corporations to whip everyone in line. You all think the US is moving far left toward communism, but in fact it is the opposite, you are moving far right toward corporate fascism. What the rest of the world is worried about is what will the US then do after the transformation? That's what scares the world and Taiwan better pay attention.

It absolutely a genocidal dictatorship, as shown by its efforts to exterminate Uighur culture. The list of China’s atrocities in Xinjiang more than crosses the line into outright genocide,

Taiwan has shown rather clearly it has absolutely zero interest in being ruled by a genocidal dictatorship, no matter how loudly the CPC screams. Kinda hilarious that you think you can go on about “peaceful development” when China routinely threatens to invade Taiwan and crush its democracy.

Wolf warrior diplomacy has been a total failure. The rest of the world isn’t interested in being vassals to “All Under Heaven”. The PRC should probably figure that out.

 

[seymourflops]

It absolutely a genocidal dictatorship, as shown by its efforts to exterminate Uighur culture. The list of China’s atrocities in Xinjiang more than crosses the line into outright genocide,

Taiwan has shown rather clearly it has absolutely zero interest in being ruled by a genocidal dictatorship, no matter how loudly the CPC screams. Kinda hilarious that you think you can go on about “peaceful development” when China routinely threatens to invade Taiwan and crush its democracy.

Wolf warrior diplomacy has been a total failure. The rest of the world isn’t interested in being vassals to “All Under Heaven”. The PRC should probably figure that out.

The other Asian nations are going to have to join in a fight, unless Taiwan decides that extinction is better than living under the Chinese murder/torture/slavery regime.

The U.S. is in no position to do a damn thing, weakened as we are by COVID and by Team Biden.

I'm not saying we should intervene if China invades, but this is the first time since Taiwan split that China could be so certain the U.S. would do nothing.

 

[fortune]

The other Asian nations are going to have to join in a fight, unless Taiwan decides that extinction is better than living under the Chinese murder/torture/slavery regime.

They wont have to. Formosa has been training for this for 40 or 50 years.
Do not undersell national pride

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Typical American! You go on thinking everything revolves around Trump. Trump has nothing to do with global politics and the eventual rise of a better global system that is not dominated by the US. What you Americans can't see, but most of the rest of the world can, is that the corrupt US government is the scourge of the world. Worse, it is extremely hypocritical and accuses China and many other countries of being totalitarian governments, while doing worse to its own citizens. The rest of the world doesn't blame Trump for everything, we blame the US for everything. And what's becoming painfully evident is that the US people are completely ignorant of what the US is becoming and refuse to step up and prevent something far worse than your perception of China. The real threat against global peace is not the Rise of China, it's the response of the tyrannical US to that rise. Now, back to your video games and hating Trump.

Dude, you already showed your hand when all of your talking points were parroted from Trump.

 

[PNW Guy]

FFS quit this shit right there. China and their form of government sucks balls. They have not pulled anyone out of poverty since they turned to communism.

Ill take liberty and freedom over that crap in China and Xi and his dictatorship for life bullshit.

When the Chinese real estate bubble bursts and all those three year old ghost cities that are falling down with a regularity because of construction having ZERO regulation in China, the west will see what a joke the CCP really is. Winnie the Pooh got some problems on the horizon. The CCP is propping the whole house of cards up, and it will fall....





Besides, this is bluster, Taiwan is quite capable of defending itself, Japan will not sit idly by. But even deeper, China's "one child" thing has their population so aged, if they started conscripting armies, support for the CCP would crumble quite quickly.



I really think y'all are falling for the CCP's propaganda and sensationalist media, not to mention US war hawks, that profit off all the arms sales for an invasion that is never going to happen. Don't forget all the semiconductors Taiwan produces; do you really think Europe would tolerate an invasion?

The CCP is crumbling (slowly) from within, the "Boom" is coming to an end, China will never dominate like the fear mongers tell us, and China can try and hide it's internal problems, and promote this new nationalism, but it's a failing strategy. China can't offer stability or credibility on the world stage.

 

[TearItAllDown]

The CCP is propping the whole house of cards up, and it will fall....

I'm pretty sure that's what the entire rest of the world is saying about the US. Ever since the 2007/2008 financial crash demonstrated how weak the US financial system really is. China has Plan B and Plan C already mapped out. China plays the long game.

 

[j brown's body]

Taiwan's a bunch of socialists. Should we really protect them from the capitalist mainland?

 

[PNW Guy]

I'm pretty sure that's what the entire rest of the world is saying about the US. Ever since the 2007/2008 financial crash demonstrated how weak the US financial system really is. China has Plan B and Plan C already mapped out. China plays the long game.

China can't even fend off Vietnam in the South China Sea, no way they actually try taking Taiwan.....

 

[PNW Guy]

I'm pretty sure that's what the entire rest of the world is saying about the US. Ever since the 2007/2008 financial crash demonstrated how weak the US financial system really is. China has Plan B and Plan C already mapped out. China plays the long game.

You're REALLY buying in on worthless CCP propaganda....

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I'm pretty sure that's what the entire rest of the world is saying about the US. Ever since the 2007/2008 financial crash demonstrated how weak the US financial system really is. China has Plan B and Plan C already mapped out. China plays the long game.

Any game that is not rigged can be lost.

 

[multivita-man]

When the Chinese real estate bubble bursts and all those three year old ghost cities that are falling down with a regularity because of construction having ZERO regulation in China, the west will see what a joke the CCP really is. Winnie the Pooh got some problems on the horizon. The CCP is propping the whole house of cards up, and it will fall....





Besides, this is bluster, Taiwan is quite capable of defending itself, Japan will not sit idly by. But even deeper, China's "one child" thing has their population so aged, if they started conscripting armies, support for the CCP would crumble quite quickly.



I really think y'all are falling for the CCP's propaganda and sensationalist media, not to mention US war hawks, that profit off all the arms sales for an invasion that is never going to happen. Don't forget all the semiconductors Taiwan produces; do you really think Europe would tolerate an invasion?

The CCP is crumbling (slowly) from within, the "Boom" is coming to an end, China will never dominate like the fear mongers tell us, and China can try and hide it's internal problems, and promote this new nationalism, but it's a failing strategy. China can't offer stability or credibility on the world stage.

China is heading into choppy waters for sure. They're confronted with their own Lehman/Minsky moment. Their financial system (their banks) doesn't appear to be in danger the way ours were in 2008-9, but their private sector is, if anything, in potential greater danger.

When the US markets froze, it's because the banks themselves were over-leveraged but much of the private sector was doing fairly well, operating under the assumption that they'd have access to credit and capital.

China's dealing with the inverse problem: the Chinese government essentially created a 'market' that was built on families owning property and construction companies building anything and everything. We're now finding out that much of this industry - not just Evergrande - is failing. And with it, their creditors will take a hit, as will all industries that are sucked into the vortex of their collapse.

We're definitely looking at a lost decade for China.

Even so, I'm not sure I'd be calling for China's collapse just yet. Chairman Mao's China suffered through the Great Leap and the Cultural Revolution, which were disastrous. Mao deftly used class warfare to fend off political criticism, and I see Xi attempting to do the same. This is why he's taking down his country's billionaires and this is why he crushed dissent in HK. Xi and his allies knew this moment was coming and prepared accordingly.

Those who challenge Xi will be accused of supporting the U.S., labeled enemies of the state, and disappear.

A year or two ago I would have said that an attack on Taiwan would have been highly unlikely, but I can't rule it out now.

 

[bomberfox]

Trump started the withdrawal. Eat your peas trumpist.

 

[PNW Guy]

China is heading into choppy waters for sure. They're confronted with their own Lehman/Minsky moment. Their financial system (their banks) doesn't appear to be in danger the way ours were in 2008-9, but their private sector is, if anything, in potential greater danger.

When the US markets froze, it's because the banks themselves were over-leveraged but much of the private sector was doing fairly well, operating under the assumption that they'd have access to credit and capital.

China's dealing with the inverse problem: the Chinese government essentially created a 'market' that was built on families owning property and construction companies building anything and everything. We're now finding out that much of this industry - not just Evergrande - is failing. And with it, their creditors will take a hit, as will all industries that are sucked into the vortex of their collapse.

We're definitely looking at a lost decade for China.

Even so, I'm not sure I'd be calling for China's collapse just yet. Chairman Mao's China suffered through the Great Leap and the Cultural Revolution, which were disastrous. Mao deftly used class warfare to fend off political criticism, and I see Xi attempting to do the same. This is why he's taking down his country's billionaires and this is why he crushed dissent in HK. Xi and his allies knew this moment was coming and prepared accordingly.

Those who challenge Xi will be accused of supporting the U.S., labeled enemies of the state, and disappear.

A year or two ago I would have said that an attack on Taiwan would have been highly unlikely, but I can't rule it out now.

Another YouTube channel (ugh, I know! but still, good stuff), that put's it succinctly why China is more smoke and mirrors than people know. Now I'm not saying an attack on Taiwan is impossible, but I think it could well be what topples the CCP, if it did make that decision. I think the nationalism itself is too phony, the Chinese people as a whole are not willing to make sacrifices like that. You'd see internal revolts and possibly military desertions I believe (in time). Anyway as I said, I think this channel explains rather well why we're so eager to buy into US warhawks fear mongering about China.

 

[fortune]

China can't even fend off Vietnam in the South China Sea,

Oh get ****ing real.

 

[fortune]

The CCP is crumbling (slowly) from within, the "Boom" is coming to an end, China will never dominate like the fear mongers tell us

But that can be a problem... I worry.

 

[Ishm]

Xi seems to be following the playbook of several past US presidents (and maybe a few old British PM's). When things aren't going so great at home, find a war somewhere to refocus everyone on nationalist pride.

China has a problem where their capitalist success has way too much govt interference to be fully self sustaining in the way most western style nations are. It means that govt mistakes in economic leadership and decision making are massively amplified compared to other nations where the dynamics of the natirally occuring private sector have more influence.

The threat of war with that 'rebel province' helps keep nationalism ahead of more scrutiny of the problems China faces. As for who 'owns' Taiwan, you first have the native Taiwanese, then the descendants of Chinas royalty/rulers pre the communist takeover, and a distant 3rd comes modern CCP China. If they really 'owned' it they wouldn't have let those who escaped the communist rebels turn it into the economic powerhouse it became while the mainland Chinese were still trying to climb out of their rice paddies.

 

[PNW Guy]

Oh get ****ing real.

There's a big difference between Vietnam and China. Vietnam has allies, China doesn't, not to mention China's artificial islands are a logistical nightmare, and are sinking.

 

[PNW Guy]

Not to mention, does anyone REALLY want to mess with Japan and it's "non military" forces? Japan isn't the paper tiger we intended them to be.



The economic forces Japan could unleash, not to mention, the US obligation to defend Japan, I think plays a larger role than people sometimes consider. Japan and the US are about as allied as could be, considering history.

 

[fortune]

There's a big difference between Vietnam and China. Vietnam has allies, China doesn't, not to mention China's artificial islands are a logistical nightmare, and are sinking.

first thing to do is try not to be low on the scale of reality (although you are doing your best you can to do that) but it nevertheless escapes me why you want to try.
just kinda stop that if you can.

 

[PNW Guy]

first thing to do is try not to be low on the scale of reality (although you are doing your best you can to do that) but it nevertheless escapes me why you want to try.
just kinda stop that if you can.

Do you even realize that half of this vaunted Chinese military is devoted to "internal security"? Not to mention having next to no real battle experience. Not so in Vietnam, but granted, China is the apparent power, but a lot more of it is flex than actual power.

 

[Fledermaus]

The other Asian nations are going to have to join in a fight, unless Taiwan decides that extinction is better than living under the Chinese murder/torture/slavery regime.

The U.S. is in no position to do a damn thing, weakened as we are by COVID and by Team Biden.

I'm not saying we should intervene if China invades, but this is the first time since Taiwan split that China could be so certain the U.S. would do nothing.

Silly statement.... We aren't "weakened" militarily by either Biden or COVID .

 

[phoenix2020]

Having worked with and traveled throughout China for years now, I do not believe they are the ’paper tiger’ pejorative being floated here. Rather, I think of 2020s China as similar to 1950s America.

Like the USA of the ‘50s, they are cohesive with a strong sense of national unity shared by a popular supermajority that would make any US political party envious. They are the absolute de-facto world leader in every element of industrial manufacturing capacity from mining to processing to finished goods to automation to logistics. They are largely at parity with the US, Germany, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan when it comes to advanced R&D and manufacturing, with deficits in semiconductor fabrication and software development and offset by distinct advantages in quantum computing, materials science, block chain infrastructure and AI. They have ~400 million people lifted out of poverty whose children are learning how cars and bullet trains and computers and robotics fit into modern society. Imagine what those children will be doing in 25 years.

Lastly, as another poster mentioned, they have the enormous advantage of being able to play a long game. Our present political situation means that our government is 90% gridlocked at any given time, and every 4-8 years a new administration may take the reins and simply undo what the previous one started. Financial crises in China you say? China’s government can react to mitigate fallout in days. Our government will turn the response into a right-vs-left debate that will drag on for 18 months. China will be just fine.

Their one huge disadvantage, at present, is the global financial system being dependent on the US dollar. China is hard at work establishing a post-USD framework that will befit them. There is a reason no government is investing more in cryptocurrency strategy and development than China.

Yeah, so I’m worried. I’m not a military hawk, I think guns are weird and stupid so I’m not the sort to say ‘INVADE!’ but I do think that we’re headed straight for a brick wall on the topic of competitiveness with China. They have 4.5x the person-power, very few of our hang-ups and hesitancies, a far greater thirst for relevance, and a far more optimistic sense of their future than we do of ours. Take a trip to China - countryside, cities, businesses - and you’ll see this.

I wish our political leaders stopped pitting Ds and Rs against each other, and started figuring out how to pass legislation every 60 days to improve our competitiveness. That’s the only way I see us keeping up.

 

[TearItAllDown]

snip...

Yeah, so I’m worried. I’m not a military hawk, I think guns are weird and stupid so I’m not the sort to say ‘INVADE!’ but I do think that we’re headed straight for a brick wall on the topic of competitiveness with China. They have 4.5x the person-power, very few of our hang-ups and hesitancies, a far greater thirst for relevance, and a far more optimistic sense of their future than we do of ours. Take a trip to China - countryside, cities, businesses - and you’ll see this.

I wish our political leaders stopped pitting Ds and Rs against each other, and started figuring out how to pass legislation every 60 days to improve our competitiveness. That’s the only way I see us keeping up.

DING DING DING!!! Another poster who isn't blinded by partisan politics and is capable of facing reality. I think we are up to 3 here now. Anyway, the political system in the US is failing and taking the entire country down with it. And the people seem hellbent on amplifying the problems and accelerating the demise. The problems aren't external, they are internal. And they existed long before Trump or Biden.

 

[bomberfox]

Yeahh i dont think the Taiwanese people want to be genocided by Han supremacists.