Thrilla
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Why do firms lobby? A 22,000 percent return. A Christian Science Monitor article
Progress is a noun. Progressive is an adverb.
Submit is a noun. Submissive is an adverb. Someone who submits is submissive. Some who wants progress is progressive.
why do firms lobby?... to try to win back monies that were confiscated by policies.
Corporations' purpose is not to work for you or me. A government's purpose is that reason.
Yes, when the cooperation is mutual among those involved, it is a corporate idea. When it is imposed by law, it is not longer the liberty of the individuals to,participate, but opposite of libertarianism. It is authoritarianism.Thrilla said:to be more accurate, it would be a socialistic attitude.
socialism and libertarianism are compatible... but it's mostly academic/philosophical compatibility... real world integration is incredible hard to pull off( primarily due to the authoritative tendencies that arise in implementing policy)
I disagree. The force of law under libertarianism is to protects one persons freedoms from another violating it. Not force people to share what they don't want to share.Thrilla said:many Socialists are actually left Libertarians, but find themselves vacating basic tenants of libertarians in order to implement policy.
to be fair, this is also a problem that right libertarians have.
With a 22,000 percent return? :roll: That's getting back $220.00 for every dollar that you have invested. I don't know too many people--I hang out with at least--that gets that kind of return on their investments, so I doubt it :shrug:why do firms lobby?... to try to win back monies that were confiscated by policies.
Progress is a noun. Progressive is an adverb.
Submit is a noun. Submissive is an adverb. Someone who submits is submissive. Some who wants progress is progressive.
With a 22,000 percent return? :roll: That's getting back $220.00 for every dollar that you have invested. I don't know too many people--I hang out with at least--that gets that kind of return on their investments, so I doubt it :shrug:
I would be libertarian-right if it wasn't for their kooky stances on drugs, isolationism, and faulty logic behind their position on abortion. Can we please have "general asshole" as a political lean? Because I just can't take any party seriously anymore and just want to poke at them.I have been undergoing quite a bit of transformation with regard to my political views over the past few years. When I first came to this board I didn't know what Libertarian-Left was. I felt Progressive best reflected my ideals. But I have come to believe Left Libertarianism best describes my current political philosophy. I guess the major stumbling block for me lately with regards to progressivism is I have come to distrust governments almost as much as I mistrust large corporations. I am weary of any coalescence of power, whether it is in government or in the business sector.
I am certainly open to any further reading on the subject if anyone has suggestions.
You don't have to trust the government to be a liberal or progressive, in fact, the opposite is true. Instead you support the idea that a democratic* process with protection for the rights of all is the best approach to governing. The government is be trusted only to the extent that it lives up to that ideal. The other part of the equation is recognizing that in many situations, government is needed to protect the freedom and well being of the people from the worst acts of others. An excessively weak government can not stop others from coercing, stealing and cheating us and destroying the environment. Government needs to reflect the will of the people, act justly, and have enough power to keep foreign governments, individuals, gangs and corporations from taking more than their share and harming others.
*and/or representational democracy
You wouldn't make a good progressive unless you have a poster of FDR on your wall and want the government to play master market manipulator.
I'm glad you made the switch.
Liberty: +1
Statism: -1
I can respect anyone who fears governments AND corporations alike.I have been undergoing quite a bit of transformation with regard to my political views over the past few years. When I first came to this board I didn't know what Libertarian-Left was. I felt Progressive best reflected my ideals. But I have come to believe Left Libertarianism best describes my current political philosophy. I guess the major stumbling block for me lately with regards to progressivism is I have come to distrust governments almost as much as I mistrust large corporations. I am weary of any coalescence of power, whether it is in government or in the business sector.
I am certainly open to any further reading on the subject if anyone has suggestions.
FDR? Dude, please. I've got Teddy Roosevelt's poster on my wall. He's the ORIGINAL progressive.You wouldn't make a good progressive unless you have a poster of FDR on your wall and want the government to play master market manipulator.
If it ain't the Jobs Creation Act than it's some other trick the rich (and yes, that puts the politicians, both Republican and Democrat, in that category too.) uses to save money on taxes. The fact remains that they made at least $220.00 on every dollar invested--and I could care less what you throw in to the mulligan stew to come up with as to why. :shrug:The article was an interesting spin, but the 22,000 percent return wasn't an honest evaluation of anything. The "analysis" took a look at what companies spent lobbying and then calculated tax savings for repatriated profits that were taxed at a lower rate due to tax benefits from "The benefits of the American Jobs Creation Act". What makes this such a dishonest "study" is that it makes a connection between whatever corporations spent on lobbying overall to tax benefits from this act. These companies and these industries always spend a lot of money lobbying because the government regulates them and they SHOULD have eyes, ears and a mouthpiece in Washington to represent them. But how much of the lobbying efforts were directed toward the "Jobs Creation Act" as opposed to all the other things going on? And what proof is there that lobbying from these companies was actually responsible for the creation AND PASSING of the Jobs Creation act. which passed with bipartisan support?
The assertion that corporations get a 22,000 percent return on their lobbying is dishonest to the point of being asinine.
I think people should do some research on the Job Creation Act before giving any credibility to this article.
How can a communistic attitude be libertarian as well?
FDR? Dude, please. I've got Teddy Roosevelt's poster on my wall. He's the ORIGINAL progressive.
Except economic power, right?
How can a communistic attitude be libertarian as well?
They would point out that the way to ensure that power is checked in the economic sphere is to ensure that no economic power is able to leverage the power of government to give it advantage
So how do you get those currently having a blast doing so to stop?
You'd have to get enough people in govt to change govt, and I don't see how that happens.
I wonder if people actually know that the historic aspect of the word "libertarian" was actually coined and used by a French individual to describe a communistic ideology? Just throwing that out there..
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