Sweeping new vaccine mandates for 100 million Americans

[TomFitz]

Sweeping new vaccine mandates for 100 million Americans

President Joe Biden has announced sweeping new federal vaccine requirements affecting as many as 100 million Americans in an all-out effort to curb the surging COVID-19 delta variant.

apnews.com

--

This is indeed, as my article claims, "Sweeping new vaccine mandates"!

I tried my best to capture the salient points in my quotes, above.

Biden's orders are broad, expansive, encompassing, and bold. I've been of two-minds on mandates, but am coming around to accept some mandates - as long as there's reasonable medical, religious, or testing exceptions.

It seems the private employment mandate allows for a 'testing' option, but the federal employment/contractor mandate does not! This last (no test option), causes me great concern.

I believe those who refuse to vaccinate, but are willing to take other reasonable measures like testing, masking, and social distancing - should have the opportunity to act in good faith without being forced to put a drug in their arm. At least at this point in time. I just can't quite get over my reticence to mandate an individual being forced to drug themselves, without allowing some other reasonable alternative to those willing to act in good faith.

In addition, I fear private employers may become emboldened by the federal 'no test vaccine mandate', believing the now have license to go to that extent with their private-citizen non-government employees. We've often seen administrative policy towards federal employees soon becomes adopted by private industry. As example, employee drug testing comes to mind - something I'm dead against.

Anyway, I usually don't get so personally opinionated in my MSN OP's - but as I said, I'm torn on this subject. We need to vaccinate & better address this Covid spread. We need to rake masks, sanitation, distance, and other mitigation more seriously. All, without doubt. And, that means most of us should get vaccinated. But man, I just can't cross the boundary to say 'vaccinate without any other recourse'.

The requirement that all federal employees, contractors, and people working for private contractors in government facilities has actually already been in place for about a month now.

I don’t liken this to mandatory drug testing. That’s something the insurance companies force on employers. It’s little more than a racket.

 

[braindrain]

That's exactly what I'm saying & arguing! An unvaccinated, unmitigated employee, might be violating his or her fellow employees' rights to remain safe.



Hopefully, not. But, our rights do seem to wain with nearly every passing year. Especially, with respect to government intrusion.

So you think someone should be able to successfully sue some one else for violating their civil rights if they catch the flu from someone else. As you can usually sue someone for violating your civil rights.

Sorry I think that is just absolutely insane. And there is no way our country can function like that.

Yes we as a people have given up way way too many of our rights and rights in the last 30 or 40 years. And they are never coming back sadly.

 

[braindrain]

And no doubt headed for Federal Courts. And then fast tracked to SCOTUS

Yep would be very surprised if this doesn’t end up there quickly.

 

[bearpoker]

They were testing vaccinated people. Surveillance testing (periodic testing of samples of people) can be useful to measure the overall effectiveness of an infection prevention program. But that's not what they are talking about here. Sampling ONLY a small group over and over won't prevent the overall spread of the disease.

It would be better to just mandate that everyone get vaccinated that doesn't have a religious or medical exemption.

The vaccine wasn't available until December. That was the problem. Trump's White House was a hot spot for COVID due to not taking proper precautions such as masking and social distancing. No, testing won't prevent spread all together, but isolating and contact tracing can help contain it. It was the only tool that the Trump White House was allowed to use to combat the spread.

 

[dcsports]

The vaccine wasn't available until December. That was the problem. Trump's White House was a hot spot for COVID due to not taking proper precautions such as masking and social distancing. No, testing won't prevent spread all together, but isolating and contact tracing can help contain it. It was the only tool that the Trump White House was allowed to use to combat the spread.

We're not talking about the white house last december. We're talking about everyone else now.

 

[jonny5]

Sweeping new vaccine mandates for 100 million Americans

President Joe Biden has announced sweeping new federal vaccine requirements affecting as many as 100 million Americans in an all-out effort to curb the surging COVID-19 delta variant.

apnews.com

--

This is indeed, as my article claims, "Sweeping new vaccine mandates"!

I tried my best to capture the salient points in my quotes, above.

Biden's orders are broad, expansive, encompassing, and bold. I've been of two-minds on mandates, but am coming around to accept some mandates - as long as there's reasonable medical, religious, or testing exceptions.

It seems the private employment mandate allows for a 'testing' option, but the federal employment/contractor mandate does not! This last (no test option), causes me great concern.

I believe those who refuse to vaccinate, but are willing to take other reasonable measures like testing, masking, and social distancing - should have the opportunity to act in good faith without being forced to put a drug in their arm. At least at this point in time. I just can't quite get over my reticence to mandate an individual being forced to drug themselves, without allowing some other reasonable alternative to those willing to act in good faith.

In addition, I fear private employers may become emboldened by the federal 'no test vaccine mandate', believing the now have license to go to that extent with their private-citizen non-government employees. We've often seen administrative policy towards federal employees soon becomes adopted by private industry. As example, employee drug testing comes to mind - something I'm dead against.

Anyway, I usually don't get so personally opinionated in my MSN OP's - but as I said, I'm torn on this subject. We need to vaccinate & better address this Covid spread. We need to rake masks, sanitation, distance, and other mitigation more seriously. All, without doubt. And, that means most of us should get vaccinated. But man, I just can't cross the boundary to say 'vaccinate without any other recourse'.

Clearly illegal, but when has that stopped them? Id like to hope something like this will finally get some states to seriously question remaining in the union, but im still not sure people are there yet.

 

[Eatomus]

By definition then the implication of this in it's next stage is :

" Sweeping new Covid Booster mandates for the nations 100 million unboostered ,"

With the manufacture of Booster vaccine already underway, somebody please explain why mandatory booster vaccinations are not part & parcel of the plan ?

 

[jotathought]

OSHA fines.

It would be entertaining to see businesses close down because of crippling fees, and the economy tank because of a mandate to get a vaccine. Yet .. COVID doesn't apparently impact USPS employees .. can't wait to see how this is spun..

 

[Slartibartfast]

It would be entertaining to see businesses close down because of crippling fees, and the economy tank because of a mandate to get a vaccine. Yet .. COVID doesn't apparently impact USPS employees .. can't wait to see how this is spun..

What business would be so stupid as to put themselves out of business over this?

 

[MTAtech]

Mandatory vaccination is not a worker safety issue.

in any event, you politically Support this, and so you will find any premise to declare it legitimate.

If other employees not being vaccinated in a work environment isn't a safety issue, I don't know what is.
Your political opposition to vaccinations is blinding your judgment.

In any case, it is OSHA, not you, that decides whether it is a safety issue.

 

[MTAtech]

It would be entertaining to see businesses close down because of crippling fees, and the economy tank because of a mandate to get a vaccine. Yet .. COVID doesn't apparently impact USPS employees .. can't wait to see how this is spun..

Meat packing plants, steel mills and electric utilities are not strangers to OSHA fines. Yet, you don't worry that they will be driven out of business due to their violations.

 

[MTAtech]

So it’s such a massive emergency that the president needs to force all companies with over one hundred people to follow his constitutionally questionable orders but not so bad that those unions that just so happen to vote Democrat would have to follow along.

It’s playing politics and nothing more.

It's a matter of law. The president can't unilaterally re-write union contracts. @Metric Mouse was complaining last week that Biden wasn't doing enough. Now, the right side of the room is complaining he's doing too much.

My observation is that conservatives want Biden to fail on Covid and if people have to die to achieve that objective, so be it.

 

[jonny5]

I'm fine with the testing option, but I want the employee to pay for the test, every single one. I'm tired of these people expecting to continue their foolishness with no consequences. The employers and taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the bill for their personal decisions.

I dont suppose you feel that way about all personal decisions?

 

[j brown's body]

Short term interventional thinking could never, ever be used in a harmful way in the future, could it?

Long term, this EO has far reaching implications.

True, Republicans could take power. Its a chance we need to take.

 

[Athanasius68]

If other employees not being vaccinated in a work environment isn't a safety issue, I don't know what is.
Your political opposition to vaccinations is blinding your judgment.

We already know-- from science-- that it isn't.
The vaccine protects the vaccinated from the unvaccinated .

 

[j brown's body]

Sigh, this seems like a pattern of lack of basic civics. It seems safe to assume a non-American education so I'll try to explain the basics.

Executive Orders need to be based on a regulation or constitutional authority or they are illegal. The President be can do very little in the way of creating new regulations without legislation from Congress. The power to create law rests with Congress, not the presidency. In order for this executive order to be legal the Biden administration will need to cite the provision in a law that grants him the authority to force businesses to police vaccines and covid results.

Let me know if you have any basic questions about how executive orders work. I'd be happy to help explain any other Civics 101 type material.

Republicans can challenge the order in their effort to keep the pandemic going, but this gives many businesses the impetus to act on this and save lives, which, believe it or not, most people see as a good thing.

 

[GummyVitamins]

It's a matter of law. The president can't unilaterally re-write union contracts.

I’m trying to figure out if this is a serious response or sarcasm. Unions would not be able to have illegal contracts, the law doesn’t bend to union contracts. This response just further illustrates why this should be going through the legislative branch and not pushed through executive fiat.

 

[j brown's body]

A number of people have pointed out that a Democratic constituency, the unions, are opposed, which illustrates that Biden is not acting politically.

 

[Athanasius68]

That's exactly what I'm saying & arguing! An unvaccinated, unmitigated employee, might be violating his or her fellow employees' rights to remain safe.

Since a vaccinated person is pretty much bulletproof over concerns of getting covid, how is he or she unsafe around an unvaccinated person?

 

[rahl]

this is completely meaningless. the govn't has zero authority to mandate vaccinations outside of public schools, or public employees. And the federal govn't can't mandate state govn't employees to be vaccinated, that is up to each state.

 

[GummyVitamins]

Republicans can challenge the order in their effort to keep the pandemic going, but this gives many businesses the impetus to act on this and save lives, which, believe it or not, most people see as a good thing.

Following the law is also a good thing. Just because something is “good” doesn’t make it legal. There’s an appropriate way to do things and there’s a fascist way to do things. Biden needs to justify this from a legal perspective not from an ethical one. That’s how democracies/republics work.

 

[Athanasius68]

A number of people have pointed out that a Democratic constituency, the unions, are opposed, which illustrates that Biden is not acting politically.

And it should also be pointed out that-- politically-- the claim that covid numbers are being driven by 'Trumpers" is is highly misleading and is a political argument.

 

[rahl]

Clearly illegal, but when has that stopped them? Id like to hope something like this will finally get some states to seriously question remaining in the union, but im still not sure people are there yet.

states have no ability to leave the union.

 

[braindrain]

It's a matter of law. The president can't unilaterally re-write union contracts. @Metric Mouse was complaining last week that Biden wasn't doing enough. Now, the right side of the room is complaining he's doing too much.

My observation is that conservatives want Biden to fail on Covid and if people have to die to achieve that objective, so be it.

So osha can enforce new safety standards on non union business’s but not on union business’s. And you think that is the right answer.

I am sure some conservatives do. Just like plenty on the left were all to happy to see trump fail on Covid.
Partisan hacks are pathetic.

 

[MTAtech]

We already know-- from science-- that it isn't.
The vaccine protects the vaccinated from the unvaccinated .

Which makes my case for why all employees should be vaccinated.