Sweeping new vaccine mandates for 100 million Americans

[Chomsky]

I was responding to your idea of "allowing an employment 'mask-test-distance' option, firstly". So I said that was already tried and did not work.

Understood.

But, I (respectfully) haven't seen any data supporting your supposition of "the corporations already tried that". They are now just implementing it. Ditto for the government.

 

[Slavister]

I like WaPo as a source too, so it's claim of 56% might be in the ballpark.

But yeah, we might run in different circles. I spent my (1st!) career in corporate life. And even twenty years ago, drug testing was pretty much the norm among major large corps. Besides have been a permanent employee of several large American-based multinational corps, I spent much of my first career as an outside consultant/contractor. In virtually every instance there was pre-employment drug testing, and often it included outside consultants & contractors. And my experience here was with over a dozen corps.

As to government, my local governments all require drug-testing state/county/city.

Did you work for small or family businesses? If so, that may explain our different experiences.

Check-out the link below, in relation to large (Fortune 500) corps. It seems to be in concert with the WaPo article (62%):

Fortune 500 Companies that Drug Test

Companies understand that implementing drug testing program significantly results in financial savings and makes workplace more productive and safer for others. Carrying out drug and alcohol tests throughout the nation has enabled Drug Testing Network to provide customized drug, alcohol and...

www.drugtestpanels.com

Thanks for the URL. Indeed, many employers have some drug-test related policies. From the site, it sounds like a mixed bag. Some indeed may drug test you whenever ramdomly. Others only do it on suspicion (i.e. at most 0.1% gets tested is my guess). Many also have it for "safety-related" positions.

For example, for Amazon, I see:

"Federal law requires testing by employers in safety-sensitive industries such as transportation, aviation, the Department of Defense, and others. As such, all Amazon warehouse workers have to pass a pre-employment drug test as part of the company's hiring process."

Non-warehouse workers appear to be exempt (again though, unless company has specific suspicions about you).

Walmart is mixed - no required test for entty-level employees, but if you move to "safety-related" position, you get one. Also, "some stores randomly drug test their employees, while others do drug test in workplace accidents."

I work for a large multi-national company and have most friends that work for others. Most are in IT sector.

While it seems many companies have SOME drug testing policies, in many of them most employees would never know about them... except for specific industries where it's required apparently.

 

[Slavister]

Understood.

But, I (respectfully) haven't seen any data supporting your supposition of "the corporations already tried that". They are now just implementing it. Ditto for the government.

You have not seen any data that corporations have already tried "mask-test-distance" option? What business has not changed its practices to try mask-test-distance in the past 18 months? All businesses I have encountered, including even dinky gas stations have had the signs up, employees masked and big circles on the floor for 6ft distancing. It does not mean customers cared but they tried... (Nowadays, employee masks are gone though - they are not interested in that any more)

 

[Chomsky]

Thanks for the URL. Indeed, many employers have some drug-test related policies. From the site, it sounds like a mixed bag. Some indeed may drug test you whenever ramdomly. Others only do it on suspicion (i.e. at most 0.1% gets tested is my guess). Many also have it for "safety-related" positions.

For example, for Amazon, I see:

"Federal law requires testing by employers in safety-sensitive industries such as transportation, aviation, the Department of Defense, and others. As such, all Amazon warehouse workers have to pass a pre-employment drug test as part of the company's hiring process."

The bolded is why I paid so much attention to the 'federal employment' subset of the mandate. As federal employment goes, often public corporations go

Non-warehouse workers appear to be exempt (again though, unless company has specific suspicions about you).

Walmart is mixed - no required test for entty-level employees, but if you move to "safety-related" position, you get one. Also, "some stores randomly drug test their employees, while others do drug test in workplace accidents."

I work for a large multi-national company and have most friends that work for others. Most are in IT sector.

While it seems many companies have SOME drug testing policies, in many of them most employees would never know about them... except for specific industries where it's required apparently.

To the bolded:

And, there's no drug testing? If that corp is American based, I'd find that unusual. But I want to respect your privacy, so no need to disclose that information if you prefer.

 

[Slavister]

To the bolded:

And, there's no drug testing? If that corp is American based, I'd find that unusual. But I want to respect your privacy, so no need to disclose that information if you prefer.

Correct. A huge American based multi-national. I double checked with friends in 3 other American based multi-nationals - none were ever drug tested and had no idea if their companies did anything with drug testing (they assumed no, like me)

 

[Chomsky]

Correct. A huge American based multi-national. I double checked with friends in 3 other American based multi-nationals - none were ever drug tested and had no idea if their companies did anything with drug testing (they assumed no, like me)

Thanks!

I have no reason to doubt you. But, I am a bit amazed - as that runs contra to my personal experience. At least here in the States. If those are overseas corporate affiliates, then perhaps there's that. Otherwise, I'm not sure what to say?

Anyway, thanks for your experience. I suppose, despite our different personal experiences, we might agree that around half - or perhaps a bit more - of American corporations drug-test?

 

[Slavister]

Thanks!

I have no reason to doubt you. But, I am a bit amazed - as that runs contra to my personal experience. At least here in the States. If those are overseas corporate affiliates, then perhaps there's that. Otherwise, I'm not sure what to say?

Maybe just different industry? Your reaction was similar to what mine was when you said most people in US are affected

(and no, it's an American giant corporation - in Fortune 500, not an affiliate)

Anyway, thanks for your experience. I suppose, despite our different personal experiences, we might agree that around half - or perhaps a bit more - of American corporations drug-test?

Sure - I am no longer surprised if more than 50% of companies have some policies on this. As for how many people get affected - it's still a big uncertainty range in my mind... somewhere between 25%-75% of employees is my best guess at this point.

 

[Chomsky]

Maybe just different industry? Your reaction was similar to what mine was when you said most people in US are affected

(and no, it's an American giant corporation - in Fortune 500, not an affiliate)



Sure - I am no longer surprised if more than 50% of companies have some policies on this. As for how many people get affected - it's still a big uncertainty range in my mind... somewhere between 25%-75% of employees is my best guess at this point.

Fair enough.

I'm glad we have reasonable agreement. I think now, after our back & forth (and a little research), your numbers are good.

 

[LostinThought]

Your rights are not violated because you need to be vaccinated they are enhanced. America is lucky to have enough vaccines for all and mandating them only assure that benefit will not be wasted. It is because you are an American that a vaccine is available for you safety and that of others

So you're just going to skirt the issue and say that it's for "the good of everyone" correct?
Just warn us before you start loading people on trains, sending them to camps, and tossing them in the furnace.

 

[iguanaman]

So you're just going to skirt the issue and say that it's for "the good of everyone" correct?
Just warn us before you start loading people on trains, sending them to camps, and tossing them in the furnace.

That is a insensitive and ridiculous statement especially since it is the unvaccinated that are filling up the morgues, funeral homes and crematoriums to overflowing. They are killing themselves by the 1000's a day. Get a jab if you don't want to join them.

 

[LostinThought]

except in states that have low vaccine rates, Florida, Texas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Mississippi are among a few where numbers are on the rise....the states with the highest vaccination rates, have the lowest numbers.

Which will eventually drop as well, and neither you, I, or even the government at large has any real power to affect it. Though with the Biden administration doing their best to punish Florida and keep them from receiving treatments. I fear that things are going to get much worse for the state so long as Biden is willing to play like that.

 

[LostinThought]

If you are not vaccinated you are a threat to society and the welfare of our hospitals which we all depend on in health emergencies. If the unvaccinated agreed not to seek hospital treatment for covid maybe they would have a point about freedom but we know that won't happen. They want the benefits of society while refusing a small favor to help support it. Most who are hospitalized for covid regret not being vaccinated and therefore regret we did not force them to. You seem to miss those facts. BTW doesn't dying from covid affect their ability to provide for their family?

If you're behind the wheel of a car then you're still a threat to society.
What about those who got vaccinated and still contract the virus, do they regret wasting their time and the necessary trouble for the vaccine?

You can have no vaccination and still not contract covid. So aside from precaution, you're point is somewhat moot.

 

[LostinThought]

You are introducing a new point that is unrelated to your previous point.

It’s not fun debating with someone who cares so little about their own argument.

While it's also not fun to debate someone who can't make a simple point, has to keep injecting meaningless sub-discussion, and keeps retreading older sections off the previous discussion.

Then again, my point was easy enough to make.

 

[iguanaman]

If you're behind the wheel of a car then you're still a threat to society.
What about those who got vaccinated and still contract the virus, do they regret wasting their time and the necessary trouble for the vaccine?

You can have no vaccination and still not contract covid. So aside from precaution, you're point is somewhat moot.

You are 5 times more likely to be infected if you are not vaccinated and 25 times more likely to be hospitalized . Calling the vaccine " a waste of time" is idiotic. Delta is the most contagious disease ever studied by science. If you do not get vaccinated you are virtually guaranteed to get infected. Get your jab...don't be a dope.

 

[iguanaman]

Which will eventually drop as well, and neither you, I, or even the government at large has any real power to affect it. Though with the Biden administration doing their best to punish Florida and keep them from receiving treatments. I fear that things are going to get much worse for the state so long as Biden is willing to play like that.

Death Sentence is wasting over half of those expensive and limited treatments on vaccinated people who are extremely unlikely to get serious illness from a breakthrough infection. That is because it cannot be used on the serious cases that are filling our hospitals and morgues. He doesn't care how many he wastes because the Fed is paying for it and it helps his donors bottom line.

As for vaccinated folks, there’s no evidence that the treatment doesn’t work or is harmful to them, Fales says. But vaccinated people have a lower risk of getting COVID-19 when exposed, and of developing severe COVID-19 if they do become infected, so they don’t generally qualify for monoclonal antibodies for prevention.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covi...monoclonal-antibodies-vs-vaccines-vs-covid-19

 

[Callen]

Death Sentence is wasting over half of those limited treatments on vaccinated people who are extremely unlikely to get serious illness from a breakthrough infection. That is because it cannot be used on the serious cases that are filling our hospitals and morgues.

......and because those getting it are rich, white, Republican voters.

 

[LostinThought]

**** your goddam rights. What about my rights? Why should I have to live in a country that allows a virus to kill 675,000 of my fellow Americans when this disease could be easily controlled? You people are a disgusting lot...you really are.

Seeing as no ones "allowed" the virus to kill anyone. It's a virus and it's not exactly something that can be controlled.
So you're free to take your poorly aimed indiscretions elsewhere.

It's good to know that you're so willing to trample on your fellow American's rights though. Really makes it easy for authoritarian governments to keep that stranglehold on you.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

While it's also not fun to debate someone who can't make a simple point, has to keep injecting meaningless sub-discussion

You want to wish away the fact that there are examples of our society forcing individuals to do something they don't want to do for the greater good.

But these examples exist whether or not they agree with your arguments or not.

Then again, my point was easy enough to make.

Yes, it was easy to make a point that was totally disconnected from what we were talking about isn't it?

It's not so easy to make a relevant point that adequately rebuts the point I made, is it?

That's the whole reason why you reached for an irrelevant point. You had nothing to say.

 

[iguanaman]

Seeing as no ones "allowed" the virus to kill anyone. It's a virus and it's not exactly something that can be controlled.
So you're free to take your poorly aimed indiscretions elsewhere.

It's good to know that you're so willing to trample on your fellow American's rights though. Really makes it easy for authoritarian governments to keep that stranglehold on you.

We talk potential suicide victims off ledges and arrest people for driving drunk too. There is just no end to our "trampling" is there?

 

[LostinThought]

I

You are 5 times more likely to be infected if you are not vaccinated and 25 times more likely to be hospitalized . Calling the vaccine " a waste of time" is idiotic. Delta is the most contagious disease ever studied by science. If you do not get vaccinated you are virtually guaranteed to get infected. Get your jab...don't be a dope.

I didn't call it a waste of time, so that already puts a hole in your post.
My statement ask if the person who got vaccinated and still contracted the virus. Would feel bad for wasting the time to get it in the first place, if they were still going to get sick.

 

[LostinThought]

Death Sentence is wasting over half of those expensive and limited treatments on vaccinated people who are extremely unlikely to get serious illness from a breakthrough infection. That is because it cannot be used on the serious cases that are filling our hospitals and morgues. He doesn't care how many he wastes because the Fed is paying for it and it helps his donors bottom line.

As for vaccinated folks, there’s no evidence that the treatment doesn’t work or is harmful to them, Fales says. But vaccinated people have a lower risk of getting COVID-19 when exposed, and of developing severe COVID-19 if they do become infected, so they don’t generally qualify for monoclonal antibodies for prevention.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covi...monoclonal-antibodies-vs-vaccines-vs-covid-19

So one is trying to pad his bottom line and save his citizens. While the other is looking to cause deaths due to a state not wanting to comply with his authoritarian orders?

I'd rather just side with Florida's right to make their choice and to receive supplies that they need, over a despot willing to take lives all because his orders were not followed.

 

[LostinThought]

You want to wish away the fact that there are examples of our society forcing individuals to do something they don't want to do for the greater good.

But these examples exist whether or not they agree with your arguments or not.



Yes, it was easy to make a point that was totally disconnected from what we were talking about isn't it?

It's not so easy to make a relevant point that adequately rebuts the point I made, is it?

That's the whole reason why you reached for an irrelevant point. You had nothing to say.

I'm trying not to laugh due to the amount of irony here, but at this point it's just sad to keep reading this.

I honestly can't believe that despite using so much in your post, that you'd lack this much in introspection.

 

[LostinThought]

We talk potential suicide victims off ledges and arrest people for driving drunk too. There is just no end to our "trampling" is there?

That's a fallacy in the making. Seeing as these people aren't against the mandates, with the intention to break laws, or commit suicide.

So try again.

 

[iguanaman]

So one is trying to pad his bottom line and save his citizens. While the other is looking to cause deaths due to a state not wanting to comply with his authoritarian orders?

I'd rather just side with Florida's right to make their choice and to receive supplies that they need, over a despot willing to take lives all because his orders were not followed.

Treating the vaccinated with monoclonal antibodies is not saving anyone. It is wasting a limited resource out of greed.

 

[iguanaman]

That's a fallacy in the making. Seeing as these people aren't against the mandates, with the intention to break laws, or commit suicide.

So try again.

It is suicidal to refuse a treatment that protects you from dying from the most contagious disease ever known. Even if they are too foolish to realize it.