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Survival of the fittest?

BDBoop

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What role does it play in whether abortion is legal or not? Somebody try to bear with me. I figure if slavery is a counterpoint, then so is this.

A fetus cannot survive outside the host. So if the host decides not to keep the parasite (what it is if the pregnancy is not wished for) - host wins. Survival of the fittest.

Lame or no?

Somebody extrapolate for me. I've had no coffee.
 

mac

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What role does it play in whether abortion is legal or not? Somebody try to bear with me. I figure if slavery is a counterpoint, then so is this.

A fetus cannot survive outside the host. So if the host decides not to keep the parasite (what it is if the pregnancy is not wished for) - host wins. Survival of the fittest.

Lame or no?

Somebody extrapolate for me. I've had no coffee.
Are you for or against welfare? Are you for or against special education? We've evolved beyond the concept of survival of the fittest which is why we artificially "prop-up" the less fit in our species.
 

Josie

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What role does it play in whether abortion is legal or not? Somebody try to bear with me. I figure if slavery is a counterpoint, then so is this.

A fetus cannot survive outside the host. So if the host decides not to keep the parasite (what it is if the pregnancy is not wished for) - host wins. Survival of the fittest.

Lame or no?

Somebody extrapolate for me. I've had no coffee.
Well, yes, the "fittest" survived even though the mother wasn't really in danger of NOT surviving.

Do you consider "survival of the fittest" to be a good model for creating laws? Should only certain people be allowed to live?
 

BDBoop

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Once more with feeling. See where we are? Yes, Mac; we are in the abortion forum. Discussing abortion. Please discuss the original post before you start kitchen sinking me, mmkay?
 

BDBoop

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Survival of the fittest has to do with nature. Not laws. If the government collapsed, what would happen? People would do exactly as they saw fit to survive. Or they wouldn't. If they knew they would not survive if there was one more mouth to feed, then there wouldn't be.

I know I'm stretching, but this is a debate activity, not an actual debate. I'm trying to cause thinking, not reaction.


Well, yes, the "fittest" survived even though the mother wasn't really in danger of NOT surviving.

Do you consider "survival of the fittest" to be a good model for creating laws? Should only certain people be allowed to live?
 

other

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What role does it play in whether abortion is legal or not?
none whatsoever. legal systems are actually established to counteract this principle, which is, for all practical purposes, the same thing as anarchy.

EDIT: I see you added a post above this one that is pretty much what I'm saying...
 
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roughdraft274

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What role does it play in whether abortion is legal or not? Somebody try to bear with me. I figure if slavery is a counterpoint, then so is this.

A fetus cannot survive outside the host. So if the host decides not to keep the parasite (what it is if the pregnancy is not wished for) - host wins. Survival of the fittest.

Lame or no?

Somebody extrapolate for me. I've had no coffee.
Just as a forward, I'm prochoice but the idea of calling a fetus a parasite has always disgusted me.

Survival of the fittest really wouldn't have anything to do with abortion. No baby can survive by itself outside of the womb without someone providing care. This is a feature of all babies or fetuses, not just ones with different features or something.

Survival of the fittest means whatever animal has the best features suited for it's environment (actually whatever creature is best suited to survive and procreate) will pass along their genes and those that aren't well equipped won't. I don't get what this has to do with babies though unless maybe you can find that women with a certain feature are more likely to get abortions or something.

Since the entire idea of survival of the fittest involves passing along your genes, the whole abortion thing makes the point moot. The fittest survived but has not passed along any genes.
 

Josie

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Survival of the fittest has to do with nature. Not laws. If the government collapsed, what would happen? People would do exactly as they saw fit to survive. Or they wouldn't. If they knew they would not survive if there was one more mouth to feed, then there wouldn't be.

I know I'm stretching, but this is a debate activity, not an actual debate. I'm trying to cause thinking, not reaction.
If the government collapsed and left many people who rely on government $$ without food, shelter, etc., people would do what they had to do to survive. Some would go to churches and ask for help. Some would swallow their pride and take a job that they felt was beneath them before government aid. Some would have family members that would take them in.

If a pregnancy happened during that time and there was one more mouth to feed, those who are strongly against killing unborn children would probably still have the child and give him/her up for adoption or just try to make it all work. Those who are strongly for killing unborn children would have no qualms about killing their child. Those who are wishy-washy about the topic could go either way.

I don't think it would be much different than having government aid, really. I think people's convictions would stay the same. I know mine would.
 

BDBoop

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So survival of the fittest has nothing do do with strong win, weak lose? I mean, aside from genetically. Because if not, then never mind.

I don't use the word parasite generally, I used it here to fit in the debate.

I need a debate book. I asked my nephew to recommend one but so far no joy.

Just as a forward, I'm prochoice but the idea of calling a fetus a parasite has always disgusted me.

Survival of the fittest really wouldn't have anything to do with abortion. No baby can survive by itself outside of the womb without someone providing care. This is a feature of all babies or fetuses, not just ones with different features or something.

Survival of the fittest means whatever animal has the best features suited for it's environment (actually whatever creature is best suited to survive and procreate) will pass along their genes and those that aren't well equipped won't. I don't get what this has to do with babies though unless maybe you can find that women with a certain feature are more likely to get abortions or something.

Since the entire idea of survival of the fittest involves passing along your genes, the whole abortion thing makes the point moot. The fittest survived but has not passed along any genes.
 

MaggieD

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So survival of the fittest has nothing do do with strong win, weak lose? I mean, aside from genetically. Because if not, then never mind.

I don't use the word parasite generally, I used it here to fit in the debate.

I need a debate book. I asked my nephew to recommend one but so far no joy.
If survival of the fittest had anything to do with babies in the womb/abortion, there wouldn't be a human race. ;-)
 
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BDBoop

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I know that we're having a completely different discussion now but I don't care since it was a stupid idea to begin with.

I wonder what would really happen if the government collapsed. I mean - anarchy. If the world went mad in this country, how would things unfold.

I don't know about convictions staying the same. I've been through a really rough patch lately. I have seriously considered suicide where I never had before. I have wondered if selling sex is a possibility for a grandma, because nobody will hire me and I refuse to go in for general assistance. I have thought about going home, even though my husband has another woman and her two children living under our roof.

You don't know what you will or won't do until life gets really painful and there are no more answers.


If the government collapsed and left many people who rely on government $$ without food, shelter, etc., people would do what they had to do to survive. Some would go to churches and ask for help. Some would swallow their pride and take a job that they felt was beneath them before government aid. Some would have family members that would take them in.

If a pregnancy happened during that time and there was one more mouth to feed, those who are strongly against killing unborn children would probably still have the child and give him/her up for adoption or just try to make it all work. Those who are strongly for killing unborn children would have no qualms about killing their child. Those who are wishy-washy about the topic could go either way.

I don't think it would be much different than having government aid, really. I think people's convictions would stay the same. I know mine would.
 

Josie

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I know that we're having a completely different discussion now but I don't care since it was a stupid idea to begin with.

I wonder what would really happen if the government collapsed. I mean - anarchy. If the world went mad in this country, how would things unfold.

I don't know about convictions staying the same. I've been through a really rough patch lately. I have seriously considered suicide where I never had before. I have wondered if selling sex is a possibility for a grandma, because nobody will hire me and I refuse to go in for general assistance. I have thought about going home, even though my husband has another woman and her two children living under our roof.

You don't know what you will or won't do until life gets really painful and there are no more answers.
Why do you refuse assistance?
 

other

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I'm not certain, and I'm no biologist, but isn't part of the definition of "parasite" that it be of a different species than the host? Do any biologists consider sexual reproduction/pregnancy to be a process of infection?

...seems like a stretch to me.
 

BDBoop

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I figure there are other who need it more than I do ... dunno. Pride, I guess. And some small part involves me going to the county courthouse and I am agoraphobic.

Why do you refuse assistance?
 

Josie

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I figure there are other who need it more than I do ... dunno. Pride, I guess. And some small part involves me going to the county courthouse and I am agoraphobic.
You won't ask for assistance because you're too proud, but you'd consider being a prostitute?
 

lizzie

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Survival of the fittest means whatever animal has the best features suited for it's environment (actually whatever creature is best suited to survive and procreate) will pass along their genes and those that aren't well equipped won't. I don't get what this has to do with babies though unless maybe you can find that women with a certain feature are more likely to get abortions or something.
I would add to that that women who have a disposition toward abortion for convenience sake would be weeding out that tendency as well. Quite frankly, if a woman doesn't want the child she is carrying and doesn't have the ability to sacrifice her own wishes for the benefit of the child, it's probably not a bad thing that she aborts it. I realize it's somewhat of a stretch, but in the big picture.....
 

BDBoop

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Funny how your mind works when you're scrambling madly through it.

Or doesn't work, as the case may be.

You won't ask for assistance because you're too proud, but you'd consider being a prostitute?
 

OKgrannie

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I know that we're having a completely different discussion now but I don't care since it was a stupid idea to begin with.

I wonder what would really happen if the government collapsed. I mean - anarchy. If the world went mad in this country, how would things unfold.

I don't know about convictions staying the same. I've been through a really rough patch lately. I have seriously considered suicide where I never had before. I have wondered if selling sex is a possibility for a grandma, because nobody will hire me and I refuse to go in for general assistance. I have thought about going home, even though my husband has another woman and her two children living under our roof.

You don't know what you will or won't do until life gets really painful and there are no more answers.
It is so true that you don't know what you will do until the circumstances involve you.

"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" - When the Anti-Choice Choose

"We have anti-choice women in for abortions all the time. Many of them are just naive and ignorant until they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. Many of them are not malicious. They just haven't given it the proper amount of thought until it completely affects them. They can be judgmental about their friends, family, and other women. Then suddenly they become pregnant. Suddenly they see the truth. That it should only be their own choice. Unfortunately, many also think that somehow they are different than everyone else and they deserve to have an abortion, while no one else does." (Physician, Washington State)

Although few studies have been made of this phenomenon, a study done in 1981 (1) found that 24% of women who had abortions considered the procedure morally wrong, and 7% of women who'd had abortions disagreed with the statement, "Any woman who wants an abortion should be permitted to obtain it legally." A 1994/95 survey (2,3) of nearly 10,000 abortion patients showed 18% of women having abortions are born-again or Evangelical Christians. Many of these women are likely anti-choice. The survey also showed that Catholic women have an abortion rate 29% higher than Protestant women. A Planned Parenthood handbook on abortion notes that nearly half of all abortions are for women who describe themselves as born-again Christian, Evangelical Christian, or Catholic. (........

Many anti-choice women are convinced that their need for abortion is unique -- not like those "other" women -- even though they have abortions for the same sorts of reasons. Anti-choice women often expect special treatment from clinic staff. Some demand an abortion immediately, wanting to skip important preliminaries such as taking a history or waiting for blood test results. Frequently, anti-abortion women will refuse counseling (such women are generally turned away or referred to an outside counselor because counseling at clinics is mandatory). Some women insist on sneaking in the back door and hiding in a room away from other patients. Others refuse to sit in the waiting room with women they call "sluts" and "trash." Or if they do, they get angry when other patients in the waiting room talk or laugh, because it proves to them that women get abortions casually, for "convenience".

A few behave in a very hostile manner, such as calling clinic staff "murderers." Years ago, a clinic counselor in British Columbia told me that one of her patients went into the procedure room apparently fine with her decision to have an abortion. During the abortion, at a stage when it was too late to stop the procedure, the woman started screaming "You murderers!" and other invectives at everyone in the room.
 

mac

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Once more with feeling. See where we are? Yes, Mac; we are in the abortion forum. Discussing abortion. Please discuss the original post before you start kitchen sinking me, mmkay?
Oh brother, so much for thought. Your assumption is lame. Survival of the fittest barely applies any more to humanity as a whole and certainly doesn't to a fetus.
 

BDBoop

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Yeah, I already said it was lame. Thursdays are not kind to you, my friend.
 

mac

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Yeah, I already said it was lame. Thursdays are not kind to you, my friend.
Who can argue with that brand of deep and meaningful thought. You certainly got us pro-lifers pegged, what with our inability to think an' all.
 

BDBoop

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*sigh*

Have a nice weekend, Mac.
 
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