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Surprising Jump in Tax Revenues Is Curbing Deficit

26 X World Champs said:
Great question! Good going! Wow! You really showed up 'dem Dems!

How the people in this forum who have a constant erection for Bush can justify his runaway spending and without doubt consciousless and irresponsible managing of the budget is truly laughable. Had ANY Democrat spent and debted the way Bush has ALL of you would be writing over and over again about those TAX AND SPEND Democrats. The reality is that Bush is the biggest and worst Debtor our nation has ever endured...by a lot...and for the Bushies to not criticize him for his fiscal policies is like a Democrat trying to justify Clinton and Lewinsky...
Almost every conservative I know hates the spending that CONGRESS is doing and the President isn't doing enough to fight. So don't sit there and try to make it sound like we support this, because we don't and this point has been made clear repeatedly by many conservatives. Go to a conservative forum and ask what they dislike the most about the President. The two things you will hear are about are spending and immigration.
 
hipsterdufus said:
That's not my point. Had Bush not diverted funding away from strengthening the levees, Katrina wouldn't have cost as much.

Had the warnings Al Qaeda made been heeded - 9/11 could have been avoided (PDB August 6, 2001)

And, of course, starting a war in Iraq for totally unjustified reasons is the biggest fiscal disaster any American President has EVER made.
20/20 hindsight??
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
You're ****ing joking right? Do you know who Jimmy Carter is?

Yes, there were deficits under Carter:

1977 -49.8
1978 -54.9
1979 -38.7
1980 -72.7

And in 1980, the national debt stood at a whopping 33% of GDP.

This scandalous irresponsibility caused Reagan to state:

"For decades, we have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and our children's future for the temporary convenience of the present. To continue this long trend is to guarantee tremendous social, cultural, political, and economic upheavals. You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we are not bound by that same limitation?" —Inaugural address, Jan. 20, 1981

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3638320/

And then he took over to make things right!

Deficits under Reagan:

1981 -73.9
1982 -120.0
1983 -208.0
1984 -185.6
1985 -221.7
1986 -237.9
1987 -169.3
1988 -194.0

Debt:GDP 1988: 51%

Ooops!
 
faithful_servant said:
Almost every conservative I know hates the spending that CONGRESS is doing and the President isn't doing enough to fight. So don't sit there and try to make it sound like we support this, because we don't and this point has been made clear repeatedly by many conservatives. Go to a conservative forum and ask what they dislike the most about the President. The two things you will hear are about are spending and immigration.

The interesting thing that has happened in Kansas is that 8Republican fiscal conservatives, tired of fighting the rapture right wing, joined the Democratic party.

Welcome...
 
faithful_servant said:
20/20 hindsight??

Or lack of vision...

I'll tell you one thing FOR SURE. If Gore were President:

1. The levees would have been dealt with (he addressed that problem years ago).

2. The entire heartland of America would be growing alternative fuel sources like corn as a way to wean us off foreign oil dependency.

3. We would not be in Iraq today.
 
faithful_servant said:
Almost every conservative I know hates the spending that CONGRESS is doing and the President isn't doing enough to fight. So don't sit there and try to make it sound like we support this, because we don't and this point has been made clear repeatedly by many conservatives. Go to a conservative forum and ask what they dislike the most about the President. The two things you will hear are about are spending and immigration.

Sure sure. I haven't many conservatives calling for cutting spending on the pork infested military industry that has gone up $200 billion a year (and no new troops to show for it) or cutting spending on the Iraq war which is costing us $100 billion a year. Do you support cutting that to cut spending?

Or do you only mean you want spending cut if its the stuff *you* think should be cut?

And given that the Republicans are not going to committ hari-kari by cutting spending 25% accross the board, do you support borrowing every year?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I don’t mean to be condescending here, but do any of your righties possess any knowledge of macro-economics at all?

1. The increases in tax receipts are not going to pay down the debt, they merely seem to be on track to reduce the amount of money the government has to borrow this year compared to last year.
..and you don't comsider that to be a good thing????

2. If you will note from the article on this subject, the bulk of the increase is in corporate tax revenues and individual income revenues at the top. The economy has grown at a decent clip for several years now, yet median income has declined every year Bush has been in office and the poverty rate has increased every year that Bush has been in office. Do you guys not get it? You are getting screwed here. The GDP has grown, yet if you are in the Middle Class, you are statistically worse off today than you were the day Bush took office. Why is this rising tide not lifting all boats? Why is it that virtually all real income growth has been at the top? The fact that the top is now paying a slightly higher percentage of federal income taxes is not indicative of a fairer tax code, its indicative of a shift in wealth an income from the middle to the top.
Nice attempt at creative interpretation. You can spin the #s all you want, but the bottom line is our economy is running incredibly strong. Had gas rpices not spiked the way they have, we'd probably be seeing the strongest adn most stable economy this nation has seen in decades.

3. Roughly a forth of our economy is in the public sector. That is never going to change, and some how that forth is going to need to be funded. The size of the public sector relative to GDP is about the same today as it was the day you were born (assuming you are not like 90 or something) and is about the same as it will be the day you will die. The problem is that we have fiscal obligations in the pipeline that we should be paying down debt today in order to get ready for. Instead, we are incurring more debt, and you guys are out celebrating the fact that we might incur a little less debt this year than we did last year.
Reduce the public sector by privitizing the public sector. Private companies run better than private ones do and would do a FAR better job of carrying out a lot fo the beauracratic tasks that we currently over-pay for and get poor results from. About the only gov't agency that runs well is the USPS and they are run more like a private org. than any other branch of the gov't. The solution isn't to continue funding the public sector, but to drastically reduce it by privitizing it. If we paid a private compnay to collect taxes and paid them a percentage of the revenues, we'd see vastly better enforcement of tax laws and a far higher % of monies owed being paid.
 
Blitz said:
I personally think another CILVIL WAR will be nice so we can surgically wipe the smirks off your faces.::flame: :flames: :blastem: :gunner:

Psssstt.... Hey blitz, do you realize that you are perpetuating the steroe-type of liberals being mindless. I know a lot of liberals that are very smart and you're making them look bad. Some of these folks are friends of mine and I'd appreciate it if you'd please stop.
 
hipsterdufus said:
The interesting thing that has happened in Kansas is that 8Republican fiscal conservatives, tired of fighting the rapture right wing, joined the Democratic party.
Welcome...

For reasons unknown -- as the Democrats, far more liberal than the Republicans, can only be less fiscally responsible.
 
hipsterdufus said:
Or lack of vision...

I'll tell you one thing FOR SURE. If Gore were President:

1. The levees would have been dealt with (he addressed that problem years ago).
No, they wouldn't have. They would have been left alone in order to preserve the local environment. Gore would have let them break and restore the New Orleans area to it's original native state.
2. The entire heartland of America would be growing alternative fuel sources like corn as a way to wean us off foreign oil dependency.
Sorry, but the crop yields required to make corn, sugar cane, sugar beets, etc. vialble as a source for ethanol would require massive amounts of chemical fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, etc. Al wouldn't have allowed it and instead would have insisted that we allow the cornfields of Nebraska be allowed to return to to their native state.

3. We would not be in Iraq today.
Correct. We would have Islamic terrorists dictating to us what we can and cannot do. Every time Al would have proposed doing something that the Muslims didn't like, another couple of thousand Americans would have died and Al would have apologized for offending the muslims.
 
faithful_servant said:
My aplogies for over-estimating Soros wealth. Let me rephrase that...
How about Soros gives away almost all of his wealth, keeping only enough to provide him with a $75,000 a year annual income for the rest of his life?? Who wants to bet that this won't happen????

Thats because liberals are generous with OTHER people's money...
 
Iriemon said:
Sure sure. I haven't many conservatives calling for cutting spending on the pork infested military industry that has gone up $200 billion a year (and no new troops to show for it) or cutting spending on the Iraq war which is costing us $100 billion a year. Do you support cutting that to cut spending?

Or do you only mean you want spending cut if its the stuff *you* think should be cut?

And given that the Republicans are not going to committ hari-kari by cutting spending 25% accross the board, do you support borrowing every year?
Obviously everyone has her or his opinion about what should or shouldn't be cut. There's nothing wrong with that.
 
It is also true that one's attitude on spending depends on whether one is a recipient or not. Regardless, here excerpts from a bit from IBD that bears reading:

Information is power, right? Transparency makes for good government, right? So why all the congressional foot-dragging over a bill to expose how our tax dollars are spent?

Sure, the question sort of answers itself. These are congressmen, after all, and even their party affiliation doesn't curb their impulse to conceal as best they can all the grants and contracts for which their constituents ultimately must pay.

Unless you're a maverick such as Oklahoma Republican Sen. Tom Coburn. He's pushing a bill to create a database where taxpayers, using popular search engines from home PCs, can easily find which companies and which nonprofits have been awarded their money.

Interested in how much Halliburton really gets from the government? A few keystrokes will find the figure. Or how much, say, the Sierra Club takes? Ditto. Indeed, as Jason DeParle reports in The New York Times, "A search for the terms 'Alaska' and 'bridges' would expose a certain $223 million span to Gravina Island (population 50) that critics call the 'Bridge to Nowhere.' "

Coburn, a conservative lamenting his party's failure to cut spending, has been joined by Illinois' new Democrat senator, Barack Obama, who wants to showcase activist government. Coburn has the support of right-leaning think tanks and blogospheric pork-busters; Obama hopes to encourage participatory democracy.

Of course, all the information is on public record, but until now it has required dogged probing by policy analysts or journalists to find it. And in an era when politicians routinely demand transparency of the private sector, too many resist their own medicine.

Last month the House passed a bill to create such a database for nonprofit groups, which get about $300 billion in grants, but stopped short of listing the astronomical sums included in contracts to business. This is pro-business ideology gone bonkers.

"Contracts are awarded in a much more competitive environment," Virginia Republican Thomas M. Davis III, told DeParle. The representative, whose district is dotted with private-sector contractors, argues these businesses police themselves whereas grants "are more susceptible to abuse."

Here's a congressman who doesn't want to police his favored constituents. He's his own best argument for casting sunlight on these contracts. Were Davis savvier, he could enlist the support of a new legion of pork-busters, and wean himself off the contractors.

Coburn gets that. Note also that the Oklahoman's laudable effort does not compromise national security, his proposed database keeping with current disclosure rules.

So here's a Congress taking flak for protecting government secrecy, often for the right reason. It would be treasonous to tip off terrorists. The same Congress now has a chance to strike a blow for openness, also for the right reason. Imagine Congress itself, with the help of informed taxpayers, finally blowing up the pork barrel.

Lets put those "earmarks" out there in an easily searchable database and make the info easily available to all.
 
I absolutely love the fact that most of the Democratic Party was claiming that the War on Terror, In Iraq and Afghanistan, were putting into worse national debt. A report caim out yesterday that its quite the opposite, that we are a year head of schedule in terms of leaving national deficit.
 
Goobieman said:
Thats because liberals are generous with OTHER people's money...


no doubt.

a point I was trying to make when I posted.....

can I see a show of hands of Democrats that want a tax increase that have voluntarily given to the government during tax time and ear marked their gift as "payment to help the ridiculous debt George Bush has created"

I notice no hands went up!!!!
 
ProudAmerican said:
no doubt.
a point I was trying to make when I posted.....

can I see a show of hands of Democrats that want a tax increase that have voluntarily given to the government during tax time and ear marked their gift as "payment to help the ridiculous debt George Bush has created"

I notice no hands went up!!!!


I guess I'll have to ask:
How many liberals thik that taxes are too low?
How many of those liberals do NOT use every deduction they can?
How many of those liberals voluntarily pay more than they are required to?
 
Typhoeus said:
I absolutely love the fact that most of the Democratic Party was claiming that the War on Terror, In Iraq and Afghanistan, were putting into worse national debt. A report caim out yesterday that its quite the opposite, that we are a year head of schedule in terms of leaving national deficit.

You missed the rest of the thread. We are actually way behind schedule.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/348231-post164.html
 
Goobieman said:
I guess I'll have to ask:
How many liberals thik that taxes are too low?

It's not a question of "thinking." By definition they are when the Govt has to borrow over $500 billion a year.

How many of those liberals do NOT use every deduction they can?

I do. I mean I don't. Is this a trick question?


How many of those liberals voluntarily pay more than they are required to?

Excluding charity? What is this, another trick question? Do you to support send extra $ to the Govt to support the Iraq war?
 
26 X World Champs said:
No way Gore invades Iraq and starts a war thereby eliminating half a trillion dollars in spending so far...I'm not even sure if the Iraq War expenses are being counted in these numbers? Does anyone know for sure and can show us if that is the case? If they are not included then what does that do to your argument and to the "good news" report?


But you don't deny Afghanistan/Katrina/9/11 impact. So my point still remains. If Gore had to deal with this drastically increased spending and slowing economy, you'd be defending him for it.

I also noted that from my post you again did not address it's key points from thje NY Times article that you chose as the basis of this thread and that you misrepresented so dramatically? How about addressing the ENTIRE article and it's true statements and not keep trying to spin that story into something it most definitely was not?

I didn't mention it because arguing with you about stupid things like this is like eating pinecones. It's not enjoyable, you get no benefit from it, and in the end, its just a huge pain in the ***.

If you have a problem with "misrepresentation," take it up with the editor of the Times. I provided what I thought was the most important information from the passage, and provided a link for the rest of you to look at if you so desired.

Do you always go out of your way to put up arguments that rebut your own? Oh, no, you don't, because your sense of self importance and high level validation means that there ARE no arguments that can possibly contradict your own.

As a matter of fact - Calling all of you who developed a major boner by this threads supposed good news! Why is it that NONE of you are addressing my post that clearly debunked the entire premise of this thread by using the very same newspaper article that started this thread?

It's time to stop "stroking your members" and to actually speak to the truth...is it that "hard" for you all?

er......I don't even know how to respond to this...other than with this.:wow:
 
Iriemon said:
You missed the rest of the thread. We are actually way behind schedule.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/348231-post164.html

I believe this is what he is talking about:

Bush Deficit Plan Draws Derision

WASHINGTON, Dec. 17, 2003
President Bush's goal of cutting in half a projected $500 billion federal deficit within five years is being dismissed as too timid by conservatives, unachievable by analysts and laughable by Democrats.

As he stated, Bush is now AHEAD of schedule.
 
Gill said:
I believe this is what he is talking about:

As he stated, Bush is now AHEAD of schedule.

Oh, you mean *that* schedule, the dumbed down projection, made when deficits were $3/4 trillion worse thanin 2000, at a time when Bush had taken a surplus budget and turned it into deficits that are the highest and worst of all time and among the all time highest and worst percentage-wise in modern history -- *that* is the schedule he is ahead of.

I call that the "soft bigotry of low expections."
 
Iriemon said:
It shows that Clinton took a Govt that was spending $290 billion (using funny accounting) more than it took in every year and gave Bush a Govt that was taking in $236 billion more than it spent. A dramatic and unparalled improvement.


A) Clinton inhereted the peace dividend a luxury which Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 did not have.

B) If Clinton had gotten his own way spending would have skyrocketed and you know it, the Reps had to shut down the entire federal government for the longest time in history so as to get that balanced budget to which you now give Clinton credit for.
 
Gill said:
I believe this is what he is talking about:

As he stated, Bush is now AHEAD of schedule.

How about *this* schedule:

"We can meet our priorities, and we can fund them. And we can also pay down debt. I know a lot of folks around America are worried about national debt, as am I. [LMFAO!] We pay down $2 trillion of debt over the next 10 years. That's all the debt that's available to be retired without having to pay a premium for prepaying debt. That's a lot of debt retirement. It will be the biggest repayment of debt in the history of the world. And so we pay down debt." http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/03/20010309.html.

Bush is only about $4.7 trillion behind of *that* schedule.
 
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