Surge in gun deaths in states relaxing their gun laws.

[lynnwinslow]

Guns can’t die. They are inanimate objects. There is no such thing as “gun deaths”.

You trying to deflect to ridiculous semantics in a thread about children dying because a bullet from gun ended their lives
I’m so surprised.

 

[JMB1911A1]

You trying to deflect to ridiculous semantics in a thread about children dying because a bullet from gun ended their lives
I’m so surprised.

If you are not willing to be accurate in your posts, I am not responsible to read your mind.

 

[Lursa]

Whatever it is, it is a uniquely American problem. Somehow no one else deals with this nonsense. Hmmm, wonder why...

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

ISLA VISTA, CA—In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded...

theonion.com

Do you have a direct response to my post?

 

[Lursa]

It’s a colloquialism. It’s in the thread title. Do you have any thought about the thread topic? Or are you just here to try to deflect?

I gave a civil, on-topic response in post 15. There was no deflection. Feel free to address that.

 

[ataraxia]

Do you have a direct response to my post?

Sure. You asked a question about how to address the problem. The answer is: why don't we start by looking to see why no one else has it?

 

[lynnwinslow]

I gave a civil, on-topic response. There was no deflection. Feel free to address that.

Sorry, I thought I was responding to someone else. I deleted my post right after I realized my mistake.

 

[Lursa]

Yeah. You asked a question about how to address the problem. The answer is: why don't we start by looking to see why no one else has it?

Great...you start.

Mine was...if kids are dying by gunshot...why/where are they getting guns? If you want to go broader...feel free.

 

[ataraxia]

Guns can’t die. They are inanimate objects. There is no such thing as “gun deaths”.

All potentially hazardous equipment can't die. But we still have lots of regulations on them. Why?

 

[ataraxia]

Isla Vista? Where half the victims where stabbed to death? Why aren’t you calling for knife control?

It's an article from the Onion, poking fun at the argument.

 

[ataraxia]

You'll need to explain how that's analogous to taking away Constitutional rights and civil liberties from peaceful people.

Because if you are doing things which are hurting others, you don't have a right anymore. Your rights stop where other people's noses start. You are making an entire nation live in blood and gore so you can target practice on empty beer cans on the weekends with military grade weapons.

 

[JMB1911A1]

Because if you are doing things which are hurting others, you don't have a right anymore. Your rights stop where other people's noses start. You are making an entire nation live in blood and gore so you can target practice on empty beer cans on the weekends with military grade weapons.

So, you want to punish him for what someone else has done? That is in direct contradiction to your first sentence. The people responsible should be punished.

Gun control is not about saving lives. It is about controlling people.

 

[ataraxia]

So, you want to punish him for what someone else has done? That is in direct contradiction to your first sentence. The people responsible should be punished.

Gun control is not about saving lives. It is about controlling people.

All potentially hazardous equipment have tons of regulations on them. Do you think that's to punish their users for things others have done with that equipment?

So we should we lift all regulations on all potentially hazardous equipment/chemicals?

 

[JMB1911A1]

All potentially hazardous equipment have tons of regulations on them. Do you think that's to punish their users for things others have done with that equipment?

So we should we lift all regulations on all potentially hazardous equipment/chemicals?

Firearms are already regulated. What new regulations do propose?

Also, I suggest you read post #19. The problem is not firearms, it is certain cultures.

 

[ataraxia]

Firearms are already regulated. What new regulations do propose?

Whatever it is that the rest of the civilized world does.

Also, I suggest you read post #19. The problem is not firearms, it is certain cultures.

No it's not. The states that loosened up their gun laws, started dying more. The states that tightened them, died less.

Are you saying that's because their culture changed, or their regulations on potentially hazardous equipment? Culture doesn't change that fast.

Gun deaths among children surge after states loosen firearm laws, new study finds

Firearms are now the leading cause of death in children and teens in the U.S.

abcnews.go.com

 

[RF667799]

Because if you are doing things which are hurting others, you don't have a right anymore. Your rights stop where other people's noses start. You are making an entire nation live in blood and gore so you can target practice on empty beer cans on the weekends with military grade weapons.

Those aren't harming anyone. Calm down. Quit making unfounded accusations about other posters.

 

[RF667799]

You trying to deflect from gun deaths in a gun death thread. I’m so surprised.

If the thread was exclusively about "gun deaths", why did you bring up motor vehicle deaths? Wait. A better question. Why did you bring up motor vehicle deaths and then do your best impression of a crawfish?

 

[lynnwinslow]

If the thread was exclusively about "gun deaths", why did you bring up motor vehicle deaths? Wait. A better question. Why did you bring up motor vehicle deaths and then do your best impression of a crawfish?

it’s fun to watch you flail around trying to score points.

 

[poppopfox]

More info:

https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/152/3/e2023061296/193711/Trends-and-Disparities-in-Firearm-Deaths-Among?autologincheck=redirected

In 2021, among children who died by firearms, 84.8% were male, 49.9% were Black, 82.6% were aged 15 to 19 years, and 64.3% died by homicide. Black children accounted for 67.3% of firearm homicides, with a death rate increase of 1.8 from 2020 to 2021. White children accounted for 78.4% of firearm suicides.

Let’s see:
- Illegal for anyone under 21 to buy a handgun.
- Illegal in most states for none under 18 to even carry a handgun.

Looks like a majority of these deaths can be directly linked to inner city criminal behavior.

But let’s infringe on everyone’s rights because of a few criminals. No, **** that. Let’s get tough on the criminals.

 

[RF667799]

it’s fun to watch you flail around trying to score points.

I'm serving up easy pitches hoping you might at least take a swing. If you're only here to troll though, I'll get bored soon enough.

 

[ataraxia]

Those aren't harming anyone.

Says who? Not observations.

 

[Spock]

That's ~500 more/yr. Odd, since one of the most frequently legislated gun law changes is to storage and safe keeping of firearms. They were implemented and made more strict in many states.

Kids cant buy them legally. So it's parental irresponsibility which is entirely preventable. But you cannot force responsibility on anyone. If you look into some of the data more clearly, or just the media stories, many of the cases where kids get their firearms from have cops for parents.

How many more laws or how much more training is needed if even cops cant be responsible for their firearms?

Gun owners should be the strongest advocates for unnecessary firearm violence rather than apologists.
The article only addresses EXCESS firearm violence which tends to ignore the baseline firearm violence.
You know that at least 100,000 people are killed or injured by firearms yearly in the USA.
More firearm prevalence, there will be more firearm death and injury.
Sometimes simple associations are just as they seem and do not need to be obscured by false excuses or rationalizations.

 

[Spock]

So much for the claim that we need guns to keep us safe, and an armed society is a polite society

It seems recent experience and observations are just more evidence for the observed rule that more guns= more death and violence.

“Over the 12-year post-decision period, researchers estimate more than 6,000 excess deaths occurred in states with the most permissive gun laws. Another 1,400 excess deaths occurred in states that made their laws more permissive but were not in the most extreme group.

Meanwhile, four states -- California, New York, Maryland, and Rhode Island, all of which had strict laws -- saw significant drops in pediatric gun deaths.”

Gun deaths among children surge after states loosen firearm laws, new study finds

Firearms are now the leading cause of death in children and teens in the U.S.

abcnews.go.com

Those who want to read more about the referenced research can read it here:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2834530

 

[lynnwinslow]

I'm serving up easy pitches hoping you might at least take a swing. If you're only here to troll though, I'll get bored soon enough.

I was just pointing out your lie of omission. It’s fun to watch you flail around trying to score points.

 

[Spock]

Let me predict the following spurious arguments by gun apologists intent on burying any criticism of
1. Firearm violence cannot occur because firearms are not alive (this silly statement by the grammatically impaired firearm apologists)
2. Firearm violence cannot be linked to firearms because that is tautology (incorrect statement by a confused sesquipedalian)
3. Claiming that firearms are uniquely different from pools, cars, chainsaws, knives or sharp sticks is baby talk or special pleading ( since firearms ARE structurally and fundamentally different from other devices, this claim is incorrect)
4, Accidents, self-harm and homicide connected to firearms cannot be considered together because the circumstances differ (the common factor of firearm violence is.... firearms and, therefore, it is appropriate to consider all consequences)

 

[Lursa]

Gun owners should be the strongest advocates for unnecessary firearm violence rather than apologists.
The article only addresses EXCESS firearm violence which tends to ignore the baseline firearm violence.
You know that at least 100,000 people are killed or injured by firearms yearly in the USA.
More firearm prevalence, there will be more firearm death and injury.
Sometimes simple associations are just as they seem and do not need to be obscured by false excuses or rationalizations.

As a foundation, I think we've been thru this before, and oversimplifying with a bumper sticker slogan doesnt fix it nor lend itself to reasonable solutions.

There are:
~400 million guns in the US
gun deaths: ~48,000
gun injuries: ~27,500

So the ratio of firearms owned ("prevalent") to firearm death/injury is so miniscule you need an electron microscope to see it. It should be obvious that if only numbers of guns possessed was the problem, the streets really would be running with blood.

For me, argument needs to reflect something more focused, rational, than "just numbers." The topic is relaxing gun laws.