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Supreme Courts Rulings, Are They Truly The Will of the People?

rhinefire

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The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling. It then becomes the law of the land. Does that seem right to you? Is it the will of the people if it is now a "good" law in the eyes of five people in a nation of 280,000,000? Keep in mind how diverse this nation is, how then do five people say good or bad? I know no system is perfect and never will be and we cannot please everyone all the time but when we vote for leaders and the Supreme Court makes the calls on our nations laws overriding the wishes of say congress or the President or both then what role do "We The People" have in our democracy? Is the wisdom of five people so much more advantageous to the will of one person?
 
Legal decision is not necessarily about the will of the people, it is about Constitutional interpretation (well, in theory.) Will of the people in the context you used it applies most to the legislative branch.
 
The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling. It then becomes the law of the land. Does that seem right to you?

It's not even right within the context of the Constitution. The Supreme Court has no such authority, only Congress can create law and the President still has to sign it into law. The power granted to the judiciary is to settle disputes based on law, not decide law.
 
The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling. It then becomes the law of the land. Does that seem right to you? Is it the will of the people if it is now a "good" law in the eyes of five people in a nation of 280,000,000? Keep in mind how diverse this nation is, how then do five people say good or bad? I know no system is perfect and never will be and we cannot please everyone all the time but when we vote for leaders and the Supreme Court makes the calls on our nations laws overriding the wishes of say congress or the President or both then what role do "We The People" have in our democracy? Is the wisdom of five people so much more advantageous to the will of one person?



SCOTUS wields immense power... but that power is, in theory, narrowly focused on judging the Constitutionality of laws in specific cases. In practice their power has broadened quite a bit over time.


It's not supposed to be about the will of the people, or majority rules... SCOTUS is supposed to be the final bastion of protection AGAINST the will of the majority when the majority's will is to oppress a minority.


Whether I agree with a given individual ruling or not, I am glad there is an institution whose decisions are not based on the mob's whim-of-the-moment.
 
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No, and they're not supposed to be. They're supposed to be based on the law. Most Americans were against Civil Rights but the court ruled in favor of minorities in Brown vs Board.

The body that's supposed to uphold the will of the people is the legislative branch and sometimes the Executive.
 
The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling. It then becomes the law of the land. Does that seem right to you? Is it the will of the people if it is now a "good" law in the eyes of five people in a nation of 280,000,000? Keep in mind how diverse this nation is, how then do five people say good or bad? I know no system is perfect and never will be and we cannot please everyone all the time but when we vote for leaders and the Supreme Court makes the calls on our nations laws overriding the wishes of say congress or the President or both then what role do "We The People" have in our democracy? Is the wisdom of five people so much more advantageous to the will of one person?

Huh?

The SC is not about the will of the people!

It is about the matter of law!

[Constitutional law, at that]
 
The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling. It then becomes the law of the land. Does that seem right to you? Is it the will of the people if it is now a "good" law in the eyes of five people in a nation of 280,000,000? Keep in mind how diverse this nation is, how then do five people say good or bad? I know no system is perfect and never will be and we cannot please everyone all the time but when we vote for leaders and the Supreme Court makes the calls on our nations laws overriding the wishes of say congress or the President or both then what role do "We The People" have in our democracy? Is the wisdom of five people so much more advantageous to the will of one person?

Several things wrong in this. First, as many have mentioned, the will of the people is irrelevant to whether a law is constitutional. But that is just the tip of the iceburg. Your order is wrong: a law is enacted, and only then can SCOTUS rule on that law, yeah or nay on whether it is constitutional. Using the SSM case, SCOTUS ruled on existing laws that banned SSM, stating that such laws violated the constitution. Your last error is that SCOTUS does not determine whether a law is good or bad. They decide whether a law fits within the constitution. There are any number of possible terrible laws congress could pass, that would pass constitutional muster.
 
The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling. It then becomes the law of the land. Does that seem right to you? Is it the will of the people if it is now a "good" law in the eyes of five people in a nation of 280,000,000? Keep in mind how diverse this nation is, how then do five people say good or bad? I know no system is perfect and never will be and we cannot please everyone all the time but when we vote for leaders and the Supreme Court makes the calls on our nations laws overriding the wishes of say congress or the President or both then what role do "We The People" have in our democracy? Is the wisdom of five people so much more advantageous to the will of one person?

Let's let the Founding Fathers explain this:

“The government of the United States has been emphatically termed a government of laws, and not of men. It will certainly cease to deserve this high appellation if the laws furnish no remedy for the violation of a vested legal right.” In the precedent-setting William Marbury v. James Madison decision (1803), which made it clear that the judicial branch of government – ultimately the U.S. Supreme Court – is the final interpreter of Constitutional issues and rights

“Power must never be trusted without a check.” – John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson

"If Aristotle, Livy, and Harington knew what a republic was, the British Constitution is much more like a republic than an empire. They define a republic to be a government of laws, and not of men. " - John Adams in his 7th “Novanglus” letter, published in the Boston Gazette in 1774

“The law no passion can disturb. ‘Tis void of desire and fear, lust and anger. ‘Tis mens sine affectu, written reason, retaining some measure of the divine perfection. It does not enjoin that which pleases a weak, frail man, but, without any regard to persons, commands that which is good and punishes evil in all, whether rich or poor, high or low.” – John Adams, Argument in Defense of the British Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials, Dec. 4, 1770.
 
The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling. It then becomes the law of the land. Does that seem right to you? Is it the will of the people if it is now a "good" law in the eyes of five people in a nation of 280,000,000? Keep in mind how diverse this nation is, how then do five people say good or bad? I know no system is perfect and never will be and we cannot please everyone all the time but when we vote for leaders and the Supreme Court makes the calls on our nations laws overriding the wishes of say congress or the President or both then what role do "We The People" have in our democracy? Is the wisdom of five people so much more advantageous to the will of one person?

One of the main goals of the Constitution is to draw boundaries around what the majority can do. We are not an absolute democracy, we are a constitutional democracy with limited government. If the people want to do something through the federal government that isn't covered by a power the Constitution grants to the federal government, they can't do it. Likewise, if the people want to violate rights of an individual that are protected by the Constitution, they can't do that either.

The court is there partly to police that line and decide which things the people try to do through government are in the permitted zone and which are in the prohibited zone. Of course, the people can always change those boundaries and give themselves more power or less power, but it takes a constitutional amendment.

All that said, however, yes, in a way the Justices represent the will of the people. They're nominated by an elected president and confirmed by elected senators. So, it's representative democracy, and two layers deep into the representation, but that's still democracy. When you vote for a legislator, you're picking somebody who can spend more time researching policy issues and then stand in as a representative of you to make the specific decisions on issues that the general public doesn't have time to fully consider. In the case of a Supreme Court Justice, it is another step remove- you pick a person to represent you in picking a person who will interpret the law. That additional step of removal probably makes sense because even just knowing which judges would make good Justices is probably something that takes a fair amount of research to figure out. But, anyways, yeah, they still flow from the will of the people, albeit indirectly.
 
Huh?

The SC is not about the will of the people!

It is about the matter of law!

[Constitutional law, at that]



Come on! You expect someone to know the difference between 'will of the people' in the crafting of law and the role of the court in interpreting that law? This is the generation that bought into a health plan of 1,100 pages that had to be passed so we could read it. This is the Gruber crowd, they want what they want, and if the law is found to be stupid, well then blame the court
 
The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling.
Damn, they do that? Is that like a re-rule?

It then becomes the law of the land.
It is astounding how many people have no clue about what is the "product" of the SCOTUS.

Does that seem right to you?
Such blatant lack of knowledge can not possibly be right.
 
The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling. It then becomes the law of the land. Does that seem right to you? Is it the will of the people if it is now a "good" law in the eyes of five people in a nation of 280,000,000? Keep in mind how diverse this nation is, how then do five people say good or bad? I know no system is perfect and never will be and we cannot please everyone all the time but when we vote for leaders and the Supreme Court makes the calls on our nations laws overriding the wishes of say congress or the President or both then what role do "We The People" have in our democracy? Is the wisdom of five people so much more advantageous to the will of one person?

Supreme Court rulings are not the "will of the people". They're not supposed to be. They're supposed to be interpretations of the law.

I will say, that this present Court is one of the worst we've ever had in our entire nation's history. They're using Orwellian doubletalk to abuse the English language so they can twist the law into supporting decisions that are "politically popular". Like, the "penalties are taxes" thing. They're telling us money is speech, and buildings are people, and... y'know... snake oil.

I personally think the Chief Justice has been corrupted somehow. Someone's extorting or blackmailing Roberts, I can't believe there's any other reason for him doing what he's been doing.
 
This question is irrelevant. The Supreme Court of the United States is not beholden to the citizens of the United States directly. Their rulings make no room for public opinion. The purpose of the court, as described in the Constitution, is to interpret the laws. Marbury v. Madison allowed judicial review and essentially made the court what it is now, but at no point has the court ever been charged with the duty of ruling in favor of the will of the people. It is the charge of those in legislative positions to create legislation that truly reflects the will of the people, although how often the law is truly the will of the people is debatable. Rather, the court must read the law and use the relevant parts of the Constitution to determine whether the law falls within the determined bounds of the document. The Supreme Court is beholden only to the Constitution, nothing and no one else. Now, the real question is what role society plays in rulings. Of course, the court has made some awful decisions justifying things like slavery and segregation, but those laws, after tremendous social change, were correctly revisited in new cases and decisions were reversed. So, though I did refer to the question as irrelevant, the best answer is that the rulings of the Supreme Court under no circumstances must reflect the will of the people. Only the Constitution may be used to pass judgment on a law. However, it is fair to say that social change and progress create new and more progressive minds who in term tend to interpret the Constitution in a more progressive way. The Supreme Court's rulings do not necessarily reflect the will of the people, but they are heavily influenced by the ever-evolving ideals of the collective.
Now, there have been many recent rulings that both confirm and conflict with my answer. Shelby County v. Holder, the 2013 VRA decision, is one that conflicts with my case. Dealing such a harsh blow to the VRA is certainly not a progressive decision. Looking beyond the issue of states rights, the case seems to come down to the idea that it simply isn't necessary anymore, that 'racism is over', if you will. Of course, many states immediately passed laws making it far more difficult to vote, especially for minorities, proving the Supreme Court essentially incorrect. Most damning to my case is that the particular law under review, the Voting Rights Act, was passed 50 years ago. The anniversary actually happened to be a few days ago, but I digress. There is no way that this particular ruling can be argued as progressive and reflective of our societal change, at least our real societal change, though it might make sense if one were to perceive change a certain way. Therein lies the issue. Perceived progress can sometimes create a situation in which certain actions are taken with the right motive but an incorrect grasp of the realities of the situation. This is not hard to understand, as only one justice is black and only one is hispanic. This is why I believe we must try to ensure that laws are interpreted by the Supreme Court beyond the realm of the theoretical, and into that of the practical. The Constitution and its amendments certainly seem to suggest that voting should be as accessible as possible, and, in theory, elections without the VRA would function in such a way that is acceptable under the basic guidelines of the Constitution, though states reserve the right to run their own elections. The perceived reality, that race is not nearly as great an issue as it once was, creates the misconceived notion that the VRA is no longer necessary to ensure the accessibility of voting. Without an understanding of the practical repercussions of such a decision, the decision was, in my opinion, incorrectly rendered. If you have watched any news in past year, you know that racial tensions are as high as ever. But, more importantly, with regards to the function of the court, the decision was rendered without a clear understanding of what certain states would do. Almost immediately, laws restricting voting were passed under the guise of the 'epidemic' of voter fraud. The decision of the court had immediate impact in a fashion that seemed to be beyond the vision of the concurring justices. Now, it is far more difficult to vote, and overwhelmingly large numbers of those practically disenfranchised are minorities.
Perhaps instead of a new system, a new type of justice is needed, one who understands not only the theoretical underpinnings of a law, but the practical impact that law will have. Only then will the Supreme Court be most efficient. The question is not simply whether a law fits into the Constitution, but whether its implementation and subsequent impact also remain within the rules of the Constitution, as well.
 
The Supreme Court rules 5 against 4 on a ruling. It then becomes the law of the land. Does that seem right to you? Is it the will of the people if it is now a "good" law in the eyes of five people in a nation of 280,000,000? Keep in mind how diverse this nation is, how then do five people say good or bad? I know no system is perfect and never will be and we cannot please everyone all the time but when we vote for leaders and the Supreme Court makes the calls on our nations laws overriding the wishes of say congress or the President or both then what role do "We The People" have in our democracy? Is the wisdom of five people so much more advantageous to the will of one person?

No it isn't, and thank god for that. The rule of law should never be about the 'will of the people'. It should, first and foremost, be about the interpretation of the law, and only secondarily an evaluation of the the possible outcomes and/or utility of a particular decision.
 
Supreme Courts Rulings, Are They Truly The Will of the People?

Only if you support the foundations in place that gave them their responsibility. Sometimes, the rule of law, does not always jive with the "will of the people."

Besides, why, all of a sudden, pretend that we care about the "will of the people?"

President Obama was elected TWICE to get "the will of the people," done. Since, the loser's of that political contest have fought tooth and nail to prevent President Obama from getting the "will of the people," done, as hard as he has tried. Republicans don't give two ****s for the "will of the people," unless it's THEIR will. And they are famous for declaring, "Americans want this. America wants that." I just want to pinch their ear and say, "You dumbass! Americans already told us what they want. They wanted the things Obama wanted to get done. That's why the MAJORITY of AMERICANS voted for him. TWICE! And the GOP basically told the majority of American voter's to go pound sand up their ass. They can't have what they want. They weren't going to allow it.

Payback is a mother****er.
 
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