GySgt said:I've commented on this until I was blue in the face. I must admit that I'm a bit winded from going in circles. You are looking for something concrete as if fighting Islamic terrorism will result in us deploying to a battlefield and facing an Islamic militant army and wiping them out. I wish it was that easy, but conventional warfare is a thing of the past. Civilians are more unsafe in war than ever. Not because we haven't spent billions of dollars on equipment, technology and training to prevent it, but because the enemy hides within their groups. They have learned to fight us through our moral weakness.
While most Islamic terrorism is culturally reactionary, another aspect of it is an impulse for change perverted by hopelessness. And terrorism is, finally, a brutal annoyance, but not a threat to America's survival, despite the grim events of 11 September. Osama bin Laden and his ilk may kill thousands of Americans through flamboyant terrorist acts, but their deeds reflect tormented desperation and fear, not confidence or any positive capability. Terrorists may be able to destroy, but they cannot build, either a skyscraper or a successful state. Destruction is the only thing of which they remain capable, and destruction is their true god. These men seek annihilation, not only ours, but their own. No entrances are left open to them, only the possibility of a dramatic exit. They are failed men from failed states in a failing civilization. Claiming to represent the oppressed (but enraged by the "liberal" behavior of most Palestinians), fundamentalist terrorists of so hardened a temper would not be contented, but only further inflamed, by any peace settlement that did not inaugurate their version of the Kingdom of God on earth. They are not fighting for a just peace, but for their peace--and even if they attained that peace, they would desire another. They are, in every sense, lost souls, the irredeemable. Their savagery is not a result of the failure of any peace process, but a reaction to their own personal failures and to the failures of their entire way of life. Behind these lost souls, their are literally millions and millions of Muslims that cheer their "martyrs" on. Thanks to the House of Saud this way of life is rampant throughout the region. Any kind of democratic society spread throughout the Middle East will ultimately curb terrorism. Hopefully, Iraq will prove to be that spark.
The terrorists have no doubt that they can ever defeat us. We are too powerful. Despite the thousands of personal tragedies from former terrorists attacks and the practical disruptions that resulted from the recent seizure of commercial aircrafts and the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the astonishing thing is how little permanent effect the terrorists ever have on daily life in the United States. There will be a scar left behind from 9/11, but the long-term effects of this grotesque tragedy ultimately strengthened America. It had reminded us of who we are, and then we rolled up our sleeves for the task ahead. But we have lost our way…again, because of political conflict and the misuse of words and the restricting of other words by our current President.
Are you nuts? What do you call TSA? What do you call the Patriot Act? What do you call the wedge that has divided this nation regarding the war in Iraq? These do not rest under the definition of "...little permanent...".Originally posted by GySgt:
Despite the thousands of personal tragedies from former terrorists attacks and the practical disruptions that resulted from the recent seizure of commercial aircrafts and the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the astonishing thing is how little permanent effect the terrorists ever have on daily life in the United States.
Billo_Really said:Are you nuts? What do you call TSA? What do you call the Patriot Act? What do you call the wedge that has divided this nation regarding the war in Iraq? These do not rest under the definition of "...little permanent...".
thoracle said:Gunny, you should get the hell off of this forum and write a book. I read this post at least 7 times and I am in awe. You, sir, have a gift for getting right to the god damn point that is rare in human history. Write a book, man, I'll buy it.
GySgt said:How much has it affected you? Does life continue in the same manner as it did before? Has your daily routine changed in some profound way? Your flair for the dramatics of what you perceive as "permanent" is over done.
Caine said:But dear sir!
What about the ignoramuses that use 9/11 as an excuse for everything stating..
The terrorist attacks on September 11th changed EVERYTHING!
Im so sick of hearing people use September 11th as the excuse of all excuses.
Right or Left,
Conservative or Liberal
Republican or Democrat
Or any of those other small faction parties either, and the media reporters too.
9/11 this..... 9/11 that....
the Media in the US and its government are doing the terrorists jobs for them.
They are spreading terror on the National News Networks and with this Terror Alert system.
GySgt said:But in 2008, we will have a new President. The key word used here was "permanent."
As far as 9/11 changing everything...no it didn't. It only took a rival political Party to tear down America's resolve to go the distance. This isn't the first time they've done this.
GySgt said:But in 2008, we will have a new President. The key word used here was "permanent."
As far as 9/11 changing everything...no it didn't. It only took a rival political Party to tear down America's resolve to go the distance. This isn't the first time they've done this.
Caine said:I know it didn't change everything. But reguardless of political affiliation, every politician and even the public relations/media journalists use the phrase that 9/11 changed everything! ooh!! it changed everything!!!!.
And as far as our resolve to go the distance.
If going the distance means becomming Team America: World Police.
I'll stick with not going the distance.
Especially when our government can't seem to decide on why we went into Iraq to begin with, so they have to say.. "Hrph! He's a BAD MAN!"
As a veteran of the Iraq war, I would like to know I fought in that country to truly truly defend my own, not liberate someone elses, thats not what I joined the Army for. And I know some retard is going to say, "Hrpm! Well you swore to follow the orders of the president of the united states and officers appointed over you! So stop whining!" Again, if you read closer you will see that it says, that is not what I joined for. So, don't even think about saying some more stupid stuff there navy boy.
I know that one can "speculate" on whether Saddam had nuclear weapons or even weapons grade materals and was attempting to make nuclear weapons, since its obvious he had not "stockpile" of chemical weapons. Well, being as how we still have not found anything to support that, I have to argue that we should have allowed inspectors to finish thier job. One could also speculate that he sold it all away under weapons inspectors noses, again no evidence to support it so it might as well be like punishing a child for breaking a vase that you found broke when you woke up in the morning.
GySgt said:Going the distance means recognizing the threat that the Middle East is and doing something about it. It's about recognizing that thirty years of terrorist activity has come from every country in the Middle East. It's about recognizing that this a civilization that becomes more and more alligned to the "soldiers of Allah" with every new attack. It has nothing to do with "world police". This is what I'm talking about. The bad guy is not a bearded man with an AK. The enemy is their ideology and their oppressive state in which the Arab's perverted version of Islam maintains.
Good comeback! Personnally, my life hasn't changed one bit. But these changes are long term and the jury is still out.Originally posted by GySgt:
How much has it affected you? Does life continue in the same manner as it did before? Has your daily routine changed in some profound way? Your flair for the dramatics of what you perceive as "permanent" is over done.
Billo_Really said:Good comeback! Personnally, my life hasn't changed one bit. But these changes are long term and the jury is still out.
GySgt said:Sure, I'll expound for the hundredth time...
Terrorism is bred from the perversion of their religion. Dictators and the House of Saud use Clerics to oppress their people. From this oppression comes the hate that is directed on to us and Israel - After all, that's what their religious leaders tell them. They wouldn't lie, because they speak for "Allah". Until the people in the Middle East have more control over their lives and are not subjected, or at least as susceptible, to the hate speech of their rich leaders, terrorism is going to just grow.
Every perverted cleric, dictator, royal family, and oppressed citizen of the Middle East had something to do with 9/11 and every terrorist attack since 1949 against America. These attacks exist because we choose to stand between Muslim nations and the one Jewish nation in existence. These attacks have escalated over the years until 9/11 woke civilians up. It would appear that some are still asleep and not willing to look at the ugly truth of our enemy. As long as we stand behind Israel, they cannot do any thing about it and they don't like it. As long as our foreign policy stands to keep Sunni and Shi'ites from disrupting the world's interests, they will not like it. Their temper tantrums involve the murder of our people. Arresting up the few direct terrorists and leaving the sources to walk the streets is like applying a band-aid to a heart attack. Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Momar Khadafi, and other figureheads of Islamic leadership, is not the problem. The problem is Middle Eastern Islam itself. They have been digressing back to the days before their prophet Muhammad and have been resorting to human sacrifice in the name of Islam. They are becoming a cult. No Islamic people outside of the Middle East practice and glorify such behavior. One day, after more ritual beheadings in the name of their god, I believe more people will come to realize this.
The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers and terrorist activity throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings. Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. The House of Saud have used the Koran and it's clerics to keep their people in line as they horde all of the money made by selling their people's energy resource to the world. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing. They are to blame for much of the perversion of the Islamic faith in the Middle East. The Arab clerecs, especially, will remain guilty-in great part-for every murder committed by Muslim extremists from all over the region. They created the monsters who now dictate their version of Islam. In the Middle East, blaming others for every problem is the narcotic of choice.
To attack this problem, the citizens have to be less susceptible to force fed Cleric hate speech, which is used to control them by their oppressors. This means they have to be afforded the opportunities to view media outside of the propagandas Al-Jazeera so that they can realize that America is not the reason for their oppression and their 1st Century type life styles, but it is they themselves. Sparking change by attacking into the heartland of Islamic perversion and oppression is exactly what Iraq offered us. We've already won. The voting polls were proof. They have tasted a better life; and they know with stability it will improve. If one doubts that they can do it, one only has to look at the example set by the Kurds in the North.
GySgt said:Sure, I'll expound for the hundredth time...
Terrorism is bred from the perversion of their religion. Dictators and the House of Saud use Clerics to oppress their people. From this oppression comes the hate that is directed on to us and Israel - After all, that's what their religious leaders tell them. They wouldn't lie, because they speak for "Allah". Until the people in the Middle East have more control over their lives and are not subjected, or at least as susceptible, to the hate speech of their rich leaders, terrorism is going to just grow.
Every perverted cleric, dictator, royal family, and oppressed citizen of the Middle East had something to do with 9/11 and every terrorist attack since 1949 against America. These attacks exist because we choose to stand between Muslim nations and the one Jewish nation in existence. These attacks have escalated over the years until 9/11 woke civilians up. It would appear that some are still asleep and not willing to look at the ugly truth of our enemy. As long as we stand behind Israel, they cannot do any thing about it and they don't like it. As long as our foreign policy stands to keep Sunni and Shi'ites from disrupting the world's interests, they will not like it. Their temper tantrums involve the murder of our people. Arresting up the few direct terrorists and leaving the sources to walk the streets is like applying a band-aid to a heart attack. Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Momar Khadafi, and other figureheads of Islamic leadership, is not the problem. The problem is Middle Eastern Islam itself. They have been digressing back to the days before their prophet Muhammad and have been resorting to human sacrifice in the name of Islam. They are becoming a cult. No Islamic people outside of the Middle East practice and glorify such behavior. One day, after more ritual beheadings in the name of their god, I believe more people will come to realize this.
The general truth is that Arabs do not target children, however, there is enough of them that do and enough of them that support the murderers and terrorist activity throughout the Middle East that have followed in their teachings. Corruption and hypocrisy may be elements of the human condition, but Arab elites have developed them to a superhuman extreme. The House of Saud have used the Koran and it's clerics to keep their people in line as they horde all of the money made by selling their people's energy resource to the world. If they could, they would steal the air itself and charge the poor for breathing. They are to blame for much of the perversion of the Islamic faith in the Middle East. The Arab clerecs, especially, will remain guilty-in great part-for every murder committed by Muslim extremists from all over the region. They created the monsters who now dictate their version of Islam. In the Middle East, blaming others for every problem is the narcotic of choice.
To attack this problem, the citizens have to be less susceptible to force fed Cleric hate speech, which is used to control them by their oppressors. This means they have to be afforded the opportunities to view media outside of the propagandas Al-Jazeera so that they can realize that America is not the reason for their oppression and their 1st Century type life styles, but it is they themselves. Sparking change by attacking into the heartland of Islamic perversion and oppression is exactly what Iraq offered us. We've already won. The voting polls were proof. They have tasted a better life; and they know with stability it will improve. If one doubts that they can do it, one only has to look at the example set by the Kurds in the North.
Caine said:And for the hundreth time.
Terrorism isn't just a tool of the Extremist Muslum Arabs.
Americans use terrorism too, example the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Also, everyone seems to try to pin the bombing on the muslums these days.
Any act of terrorism is blamed on the Muslum Extremists.
After it is already blamed on the Muslum Extremists, they take credit for it, because they know it will **** us off more, even if they didn't do it.
wrath said:The Oklahoma City bombing is a good example. Can you recall another example of that magnitude committed by an American?
There are about 400 recognized terrorist groups in the world. Over 90 percent of these are Islamist groups. So, if you were to assume that a terrorist act was committed by an Islamic terrorist organization, chances are, you would be correct.
Caine said:And for the hundreth time.
Terrorism isn't just a tool of the Extremist Muslum Arabs.
Americans use terrorism too, example the Oklahoma City Bombing.
Also, everyone seems to try to pin the bombing on the muslums these days.
Any act of terrorism is blamed on the Muslum Extremists.
After it is already blamed on the Muslum Extremists, they take credit for it, because they know it will **** us off more, even if they didn't do it.
American intelligence thinks losing another 1800 US lives in war in Terror in Iraq is worthwhile !GySgt said:EXACTLY...they cannot, not to mention that to speak against their governments is an act of blasphemy against "Allah" and is punishable by death. This is why a military action on our part and allowing them to set up a democracy of their choosing is the only option. However, we are being fought the entire way by our own people here in America that refuse to see hoe terrorism is a product of their lifestyles throughout the Middle East. After all is said and done, it will be the Muslims in the Middle East that fix this problem. We cannot fix it for them. "Opportunity", is as far as we can take them.
GySgt said:This is what I call "American denial."
Throughout history, from the days of Jewish rebels against Rome and Islam’s early and recurrent fractures, through 16th-century Spanish Catholicism alarmed at the advent of alternate paths to salvation, to 19th-century Protestantism startled by Charles Darwin, religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity. Our age happens to be a losing era for Islam, when its functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world—just as European Christianity had done by the beginning of the 16th century.
Middle Eastern Islam and all of it's violence is sanctioned by "Allah" – as far as their clerics tell them anyway. Allah rewards the martyr that kills, rapes, and murders - straight out of the mouth of Muslim religious leaders. Their violence isn't just against anti-muslims, but against anyone that would defy current leadership that uses and blaspemes the Koran for oppression sake, this means their own people. Ironic, that the true Islamic blasphemers are they themselves.
Why should we not hold their behavior accountable instead of dismissing them as acts that other religions participated in centuries ago. Should we dismiss the terrorist acts of the last thirty years on our people because of the Oklahoma bombing? Should the fear of hypocricy, because of Christian “witch burnings at Winston Salem”, prevent us from protecting ourselves? Oh sure, you'll find current rogue acts of perversions made by people in other religions, but you will not find such acts passed off as the will of God at such massive and extreme proportions. Their society has stagnated centuries ago and are now unable to compete against the rest of the world, because of their religious oppressions and perversions. No where else in the world will you find Islam in such a failing state. This is a Middle Eastern problem and it has been leaking on to our civilization for decades.
Just what has been "pinned" erronously on the fanatical Muslim. Why don't you expound on this.
Caine said:Because you obviously don't understand what Im trying to say.
Yes, you are correct in all this detail about Muslums and clerics and all that crap.
Im saying that a "War on Terrorism" is a stupid name for this conflict and a conflict that we will never win. Why? Because Terrorism isn't just a muslum thing. And we aren't even actively pursuing Osama Bin Laden. We are too busy installing our own leaders into the newly liberating countries under the pretenses that they have been "elected" into thier offices.
Caine said:Robin...
I absolutely agree with that quote of yours.
Some people are so blinded by "patriotism"
others blinded by thinking that if they DON'T agree with every thing our country does just because its our country than they support terrorism.
Its actually quite pathetic, being as how our original patriots in the US came about by those who disagreed with thier country, and thus the revolutionary war and our eventual independance.
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