Summer Brain Drain

[sawyerloggingon]

thats perfectly fine, because we would actually either need fewer teachers (if they worked more), or we would end up with smaller classes - either way is a benefit to society.

A longer school year would mean more teachers making more money.

 

[imagep]

A longer school year would mean more teachers making more money.

And high incomes and a broader tax base is somehow bad?

But regardless, we are not necessarily suggesting that teachers would actually work more hours per year. They may get longer breaks between terms and more holidays off or simply not have to work every school term. Which many of them would love, not everyone wants to be off all summer and then have to work all fall/winter/spring. Some teachers may prefer to work a summer term or two, and take a fall or winter or spring term off. And with fewer students enrolled in school during any one given term, there wouldn't be the necessity for more teachers, unless we reduce class size (which may be a good thing), we wouldn't need more teachers.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

And high incomes and a broader tax base is somehow bad?

But regardless, we are not necessarily suggesting that teachers would actually work more hours per year. They may get longer breaks between terms and more holidays off or simply not have to work every school term. Which many of them would love, not everyone wants to be off all summer and then have to work all fall/winter/spring. Some teachers may prefer to work a summer term or two, and take a fall or winter or spring term off. And with fewer students enrolled in school during any one given term, there wouldn't be the necessity for more teachers, unless we reduce class size (which may be a good thing), we wouldn't need more teachers.

Can you explain how giving person A one hundred thousand a year in tax dollars so they can pay 15% of that back in taxes increases tax revenues? That is something liberals always profess that leaves me wondering WTF.

 

[Boo Radley]

My wife gets paid year around....

Its only for nine months. Some places give you the option of getting larger checks, but only for nine months. Or to divide it out over nine months. Others just decide it out that way. But the contract is clear, you're paid to work 9 months and your pay will be divided in to 12 payments.

 

[AristocraticRep]

Year-round school? Typically a proposal like that comes with more frequent, albeit much shorter, breaks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are suggesting just straight year-round school or a shortened summer break? I'm sorry but I do not like that at all. I do however like the year-round format with frequent short breaks. Less brain drain, still time to be a kid.

 

[Boo Radley]

Year-round school? Typically a proposal like that comes with more frequent, albeit much shorter, breaks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are suggesting just straight year-round school or a shortened summer break? I'm sorry but I do not like that at all. I do however like the year-round format with frequent short breaks. Less brain drain, still time to be a kid.

I think most proposals are along this line. More frequent and shorter breaks. Overall that would be better for learning.

 

[Layla_Z]

Having that kind of choice would be great.

And high incomes and a broader tax base is somehow bad?

But regardless, we are not necessarily suggesting that teachers would actually work more hours per year. They may get longer breaks between terms and more holidays off or simply not have to work every school term. Which many of them would love, not everyone wants to be off all summer and then have to work all fall/winter/spring. Some teachers may prefer to work a summer term or two, and take a fall or winter or spring term off. And with fewer students enrolled in school during any one given term, there wouldn't be the necessity for more teachers, unless we reduce class size (which may be a good thing), we wouldn't need more teachers.

 

[imagep]

Can you explain how giving person A one hundred thousand a year in tax dollars so they can pay 15% of that back in taxes increases tax revenues? That is something liberals always profess that leaves me wondering WTF.

First off, I am far from a liberal. I'm an independent, and on many issues, such as welfare and unemployment, and am to the right of most of the more moderate conservatives.

But higher wages do result in more demand, increases in demand result in more private sector hiring, more private sector hiring results in a lower unemployment rate, a lower unemployment rate results in companies having to compete harder for employees and generally higher wages (which are paid for by the higher profits that companies make when sales increase). Also, more jobs means less spending on welfare and unemployment, and higher business profits results in a larger tax base.

It would be nice though if teachers got paid $100k/yr. We would start attracting much better people to become teachers, and current teachers would likely be far more motivated, and realize that if they want to not loose their job to the great people that a $100k income would attract, they better learn to become better teachers. It always amazes me that so many quasi-conservatives tend to be anti-education, it's like you people desire to keep the "lowly worker" stupid and inept.

Conservatives like you only seem to be able to focus on one aspect of a concept at a time, and can't see the big picture.

 

[Mach]

It would be nice though if teachers got paid $100k/yr.

Are you factoring in summers off imagep or like most of us just keep forgetting to compare apples to oranges?
Are you talking about entry-level, or for the other 30 years that they are on public pension? Remember that it's not uncommon for a teacher to end up in the $70K range, again not a full year of work, and end up with a pension that pays out that or more when you add in everything. You're reading that right, some may end up making at or above their last salary, for 30 years, when retired. This is why pensions are bankrupting states, and why teachers pensions are one of the largest contributors.

So some do indeed get $100K/year, but they don't get it for teaching imagep, they get it for not teaching, and they get it for the rest of their life.

Let the markets decide if you want to call the bluff. You think parents who love their children and want them best for them would spend anything less than what they think is appropriate to educate their children? I can assure you the typically salary that parent would pay for would NOT be this $70-$100K pensions.

You do realize that's equivalent of like $800-$1.5M in savings for us private market schlubs right?

 

[imagep]

Are you factoring in summers off imagep or like most of us just keep forgetting to compare apples to oranges?
Are you talking about entry-level, or for the other 30 years that they are on public pension? Remember that it's not uncommon for a teacher to end up in the $70K range, again not a full year of work, and end up with a pension that pays out that or more when you add in everything. You're reading that right, some may end up making at or above their last salary, for 30 years, when retired. This is why pensions are bankrupting states, and why teachers pensions are one of the largest contributors.

So some do indeed get $100K/year, but they don't get it for teaching imagep, they get it for not teaching, and they get it for the rest of their life.

Let the markets decide if you want to call the bluff. You think parents who love their children and want them best for them would spend anything less than what they think is appropriate to educate their children? I can assure you the typically salary that parent would pay for would NOT be this $70-$100K pensions.

You do realize that's equivalent of like $800-$1.5M in savings for us private market schlubs right?

Oh, I get your point entirely. If it was up to me, I would end all pension system, and just tell people to save and invest. The creation of pensions as part of compensation packages is just a way of passing on current costs to future generations as pension funds are frequently underfunded and/or devised upon unrealistic ROI expectations.

In my area, starting teacher pay is $32,500 for a bachelors degree and about $5k more for a masters. Assistant managers at the convenience store chain that my son works for start out at $35k and can make up to $65k and they don't have to be licensed or even have a degree. $32k doesn't exactly attract our best or brightest to the profession, and often, to a 23 year old, the pension means nothing because that is so far in the future that they don't really factor that in. Higher cash incomes with fewer long term benefits would be much more likely to attract better candidates, and allow the younger teachers the ability to save for down payments on homes, to afford some long term savings (personal IRA, HSA, or whatever), and to afford the things that a young family needs to start out with.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Not only do I think kids lose a lot of what they learned the past year over the summer months, but I can testify that teachers get "brain drain" too. At least I do. Every time another year begins, I have to train my brain to get back in the mode of going to work everyday. I usually forget most of the great ideas I had from the past year because I haven't been thinking about it at all for 2 months now. I think it would serve everyone well if we had year-round school...or at least a much shorter summer break.

It usually takes until October to get kids back to where they were in June academically. The idea of the summer vacation was that kids were needed on the family farm in the summer. Since the 19th. century ended some time ago, and since we now import illegal aliens to do our field work, very few kids do farm work all summer.

So, yes, it's time to go year round. Divide the year into four quarters, figure out how long we can afford to keep the schools open, and then space the down time into four equal parts. It's really simple, and would serve us better, which, of course, is a hard sell politically.

 

[Gipper]

I'd rather have gone year-round, 4 days a week.

Maybe Wednesdays or Fridays could stay off. Wednesdays would be better IMO. This way, kids never have to go to school 3 days in a row. That'd be nice.

 

[Mach]

I'd rather have gone year-round, 4 days a week.
Maybe Wednesdays or Fridays could stay off. Wednesdays would be better IMO. This way, kids never have to go to school 3 days in a row. That'd be nice.

That's what I'm talk'n about...

Reminds me of those days working retail when I'd check the new schedule and it was arranged so I had back to back work weeks with no time off in the middle, 10 days of work with no break. What a ****ty feeling.

 

[Gipper]

That's what I'm talk'n about...

Reminds me of those days working retail when I'd check the new schedule and it was arranged so I had back to back work weeks with no time off in the middle, 10 days of work with no break. What a ****ty feeling.

My record was 19.

 

[Ontologuy]

Why does that take 3 months out of the year?

The great majority of adults want to vacation in the summer and take their kids, and they all can't get two weeks off sometime in mid-July thru mid-August.

Kids don't study when it's really hot.

The vacationable climate in some parts of the country is not optimum throughout all of June thru September.

Kids need sufficient extended free play time to relax their brain and allow what they've learned to permeate all their memory-function neuronets sufficient for long-term learning to occur -- a week or two's night's sleep is insufficient.

Other economic factors previously mentioned.

 

[Boo Radley]

The great majority of adults want to vacation in the summer and take their kids, and they all can't get two weeks off sometime in mid-July thru mid-August.

Kids don't study when it's really hot.

The vacationable climate in some parts of the country is not optimum throughout all of June thru September.

Kids need sufficient extended free play time to relax their brain and allow what they've learned to permeate all their memory-function neuronets sufficient for long-term learning to occur -- a week or two's night's sleep is insufficient.

Other economic factors previously mentioned.

And three months may be too long. I'd like to see the science on this.

 

[Dittohead not!]

The great majority of adults want to vacation in the summer and take their kids, and they all can't get two weeks off sometime in mid-July thru mid-August.

Kids don't study when it's really hot.

The vacationable climate in some parts of the country is not optimum throughout all of June thru September.

Kids need sufficient extended free play time to relax their brain and allow what they've learned to permeate all their memory-function neuronets sufficient for long-term learning to occur -- a week or two's night's sleep is insufficient.

Other economic factors previously mentioned.

Vacation destinations wouldn't be so crowded in the summer if people had different vacation schedules.
Kids do just fine in air conditioned classrooms.
Two or three weeks off at the end of the quarter should be plenty of time to let those little neurons rest. All too many kids (and adults too) spend most of their time resting their neurons.

 

[chromium]

I think the bigger problem is they aren't learning enough in the 8-9 months they have. If home schooling beats HS, which it does on average, what excuses do the kids have for not reviewing their own work before fall? Well, good luck getting year round to happen when schools are already underfunded.

 

[imagep]

I think the bigger problem is they aren't learning enough in the 8-9 months they have. If home schooling beats HS, which it does on average, what excuses do the kids have for not reviewing their own work before fall? Well, good luck getting year round to happen when schools are already underfunded.

I would assume that most home schooled children have at least one stay at home parent that is very concerned about their children's education. Most children don't have that, especially with the higher percent of single parent homes. You're right, kids don't have any legit excuses, but this isn't about excuses, it's about reality and practicality.

Think way back, when you were a grade school child, did you spend your summers "reviewing your own work before fall"? If you did, then you were really something special. I know I never did. Didn't want to, wasn't motivated to, had no incentive to.

Over and over people post stuff like "if someone really wants an education, they don't have to go to school, they can just open up a calculous textbook and study it on their on for a few weeks". Yea, they could. But they don't. There's no point is discussing what people could do, unless they really would do.

 

[Carjosse]

Over and over people post stuff like "if someone really wants an education, they don't have to go to school, they can just open up a calculous textbook and study it on their on for a few weeks". Yea, they could. But they don't. There's no point is discussing what people could do, unless they really would do.

Trust me I tried doing it with 3U functions it can't be done mainly textbooks are crap even the school board administration admits it and my Physics teacher threw it across the room. Textbooks are horrible teachers.

 

[shlunka]

I'm considerably more productive, in both terms of monetary gains, cultivation of skills, and knowledge pursuits, during summer. By the time I get home after 8 hours of learning uninteresting "To me, some are enthralled" facts and having to regurgitate them a week later, I am drained, disenfranchised, and stagnant for the rest of the evening. Still, I would much rather have year-round school with a 4 day week.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Trust me I tried doing it with 3U functions it can't be done mainly textbooks are crap even the school board administration admits it and my Physics teacher threw it across the room. Textbooks are horrible teachers.

Textbooks are at best tools, and outdated ones at that. A computer can give you videos, voice instructions, diagrams, searches, and answers to FAQ as well as text. That makes a computer a more modern tool, but still does not replace the teacher.

 

[Van Basten]

Kids only get to be kids once, don't ruin that.

 

[Boo Radley]

Kids only get to be kids once, don't ruin that.

Not sure learning something should ruin it. Frankly, minus peer pressure, most young people love to learn. It is kids stuff.

 

[Van Basten]

Not sure learning something should ruin it. Frankly, minus peer pressure, most young people love to learn. It is kids stuff.

Most young people want their summer holiday. You sound detached.